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»	Cruise Talk » Cruise Ships » 'Norwegian Dream' Collision - 1999

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Topic: 'Norwegian Dream' Collision - 1999

Malcolm @ cruisepage
Cruise Director
Member # 301

posted 08-24-1999 05:10 AM

I came across this old story (1999) and decided to dig it up again.

Against the backdrop of the SS Norway tragedy, it reminds us the high seas can still be a dangerous place, on rare occasions.

******************************************

NCL's Norwegian Dream collided at 2am 24/8/99 with a 54,000 ton container vessel while she was heading to Dover Port (UK). A fire broke out on the Cargo vessel which was in danger of sinking. It had a crew of 25. Three injured people from the cruise ship were helicoptered to hospital.

[ 05-27-2003: Message edited by: Malcolm @ cruisepage ]

Posts: 19210 | From: Essex (Just Outside London) | Registered: A Long Time Ago!

Malcolm @ cruisepage
Cruise Director
Member # 301

posted 08-24-1999 05:28 AM

An extract from: www.bbc.co.uk

Coastguards are still battling a fire on a container ship after it collided with a
luxury liner in the English Channel.

Twenty four people were slightly injured when the Norwegian Dream and the cargo ship Ever Decent were in collision 17 miles off the coast of Margate in Kent.

The Norwegian Dream managed to sail on to Dover despite a gaping metal gash in the bow of the vessel. It docked safely at around 0530 BST.

(See the BBC web site for more info: click on 'News' section)

Malcolm

[This message has been edited by Malcolm (edited 08-24-99).]

Posts: 19210 | From: Essex (Just Outside London) | Registered: A Long Time Ago!

Malcolm @ cruisepage
Cruise Director
Member # 301

posted 08-24-1999 06:42 AM

A container from the cargo ship can clearly be seen on the bows of the 'Dream'.

Fire onboard the cargo ship.

(These images were borrowed from the BBC web site: www.bbc.co.uk)

[This message has been edited by Malcolm (edited 08-24-99).]

Posts: 19210 | From: Essex (Just Outside London) | Registered: A Long Time Ago!

Scottylass
First Class Passenger
Member # 420

posted 08-24-1999 07:26 AM

Malcolm,

You are a wonder, don't you ever sleep. How did you get on to this news so quickly. Iv'e been at work since 7 am no time to catch up on all thats been happening - but we can rely on you to keep us informed.

Posts: 648 | From: Stirlingshire, Scotland | Registered: Jul 99

Mary
First Class Passenger
Member # 316

posted 08-24-1999 08:34 AM

Shades of the Andrea Doria . . . I always assumed with the modern equipment is was impossible for ships to collide like that anymore. Never say never!

Posts: 35 | Registered: Jan 99

Vaccaro
First Class Passenger
Member # 465

posted 08-24-1999 01:54 PM

Hello,
When i heard this information this morning (in Europe so 2.00 am at N.Y.), the speaker said that the collision took place in the Channel (South East of Great Britain) while the crew of the containers ship was fighting a fire. So the fire have began before the collision. So we can maybe imagine that the crew was too busy to fight the fire and was not able to respect the rules of sailing in the narrow and very congested Channel. It seems to be the reason why (maybe!) the collision took place despite the modern equipments since the ANDREA DORIA sinking. Maybe NORWEGIAN DREAM wasn't informed enought about the lack of manoeuvrability of the EVER DECENT. During the day, I've heard the fire wasn't yet put out yet and that the three injured were only slightly injured.

Malcolm: Thank you very much for the informations and the impressive pictures!
Bye.

Posts: 1193 | From: France ...where the greatest liners ever are born, ...by far! | Registered: Feb 99

PFopma
First Class Passenger
Member # 356

posted 08-24-1999 04:37 PM

Thanks for the updates and news on the Dream! I took my first cruise in April on this ship and it's painful to see her in this condition! Hope she's back on the water soon!!

Posts: 14 | From: Fair Lawn, NJ | Registered: Aug 99

CTrail
First Class Passenger
Member # 64

posted 08-24-1999 06:07 PM

So, on modern cruise ships we don't want to tax the electrical system so we don't use the radar?? What do they use these days, a long pole to see if another ship is nearby or do they just send someone to the bow and that person yells, is anybody there and if so get out of our way cause we're bigger!

Sorry but in these days of electronic surveillance it seems ridiculous to have a broadside collision in open waters.

Letshaveagreatdaycausetheyarenot :-)

Posts: 332 | From: Kitchener, ON Canada | Registered: Apr 99

Vaccaro
First Class Passenger
Member # 465

posted 08-25-1999 01:55 AM

Hello CTrail,
What i meant is not that the two ships didn't saw the other one. Of course they saw eachothers. But, there probably was a misunderstanding about the manoeuvre they did. And maybe EVER DECENT suffered of a lack of manoeuvrability before the collision (i've heard the speaker say the fire had began before the collision). Maybe NORWEGIAN DREAM wasn't informed enought of the poor manoeuvrability of the containers ship.
For two big ships, this is very hard to stop a manoeuvre if this one have began because of the inertia. And spaces and navigation's roads in the Channel are rather narrow.
I htink we'll be able to learn more about that the next days.
Bye.

Posts: 1193 | From: France ...where the greatest liners ever are born, ...by far! | Registered: Feb 99

CTrail
First Class Passenger
Member # 64

posted 08-25-1999 08:36 AM

Sorry Vaccaro, but I wasn't replying to your post I was just simply astonished that two extremely large vessels would be that close, even in the channel, that they would collide with all of the sophisticated electronic warning systems that these vessels employ. The latest reports verify that the fire was started as a result of the collision.
The navigation channels might be narrow where they were but the container vessel was struck midships, T-boned if you like, not a glancing blow. These guys were travelling perpendicular to each other.

I,m just thankful that there were very few injured and I hope that none of the injuries are serious as these are innocent victims of someone's incompetance. Either the Container vessel's master or the master of the Cruise vessel or their subordinates. I'm sure both are responsible in some way unless the Container vessel was dead in the water at the time of the collision.

Hopeeveryoneisok:-(

[This message has been edited by CTrail (edited 08-25-99).]

Posts: 332 | From: Kitchener, ON Canada | Registered: Apr 99

Vaccaro
First Class Passenger
Member # 465

posted 08-25-1999 02:40 PM

Yes CTrail, i'm agree with you. Me too i was astonished when i've heard that! How is it possible that a such collision arrives with all the sophisticated equipments and warning systems? As i like to find explanations and reasons (no excuses) for everythings, i just tried to explain the collision. This is not the first time a such thing arrives because of a misunderstanding or a mistake.
I've to admit, i havn't read yet the very last reports today.
Be sure i felt no offence. This is a good talk and all viewpoints or questions are welcome. :-)
Bye.

Posts: 1193 | From: France ...where the greatest liners ever are born, ...by far! | Registered: Feb 99

MagnmPI
First Class Passenger
Member # 299

posted 08-25-1999 03:29 PM

Well if there's a bright side to this disaster, it's that the Dream made it back to port at all. I'm sure the technology that kept her afloat was basic(water tight doors, bulkheads, etc.). But the fact that she took a blow, that by looks alone appeared so nasty, kept afloat and made it to port is inspriring. The Dream is a fighter. Before today I would have never thought of cruising the Dream because she never stood out from the pack even after being stretched (my opinion only...I'm sure she is a fine ship). But after today I realize she does have something to offer, CHARACHTER and STRENGTH. Bravo!

Posts: 545 | From: San Francisco Bay Area | Registered: Aug 99

Paddy
First Class Passenger
Member # 357

posted 08-25-1999 06:38 PM

From the most recent news reports I heard here in Belfast, it would seem that the fire started after the collision, but i may be wrong. If I am not though, then othe crews should have been able to avert disaster.

[This message has been edited by Paddy (edited 08-25-99).]

Posts: 763 | From: Belfast, Ireland | Registered: Aug 99

sympatico
First Class Passenger
Member # 797

posted 08-25-1999 09:10 PM

I don't understand how the crew of the Dream did not see on the radar screen that they were so close to the container ship. I have been on the bridge many times and have seen the blips on the screen and the officers can tell how far away they from another ship. Also the quartermaster is checking visually at all times. When we were in fog off the Oregon coast both the Captain and the Chief Officer were on the bridge continuously. Where were they this time? It will be interesting to see more on this as to what actually happened and who is at fault

Posts: 3305 | From: Toronto, Ont. Canada | Registered: Jul 99

Sunseeker
First Class Passenger
Member # 438

posted 08-26-1999 12:34 PM

CTrail and Simpatico are exactly right. How in the world, on a modern day cruise ship, could such a thing happen. HEADS WILL ROLL.

Posts: 19 | From: Central California | Registered: Aug 99

Gerry
First Class Passenger
Member # 168

posted 08-27-1999 10:47 AM

The Dream was steaming south west in a traffic lane. This is like a highway or motorway lane and is marked on the charts and indicated by infrequent buoys in the Channel. These traffic lanes are designed to keep passing traffic separate (there can be up to 500 vessels passing through the Channel every day.)They are called Traffic separation schemes. The south bound lane is to the west and the north bound lane is to the east.
There are very strict rules and regulations about collision avoidance that every Bridge Officer must know inside out (Known as rules of the road or more properly The International Regulations for Preventing Collisions at Sea 1972.) There is a specific rule for traffic separation schemes - Rule 10 in which it states that separation schemes do not relieve any vessel of any obligation under any other rule. Rule 15 states that when 2 power driven vessels are crossing so as to involve risk of collision, the vessel which has the other on her own starboard side shall keep out of the way. (I'm a bit rusty on the actual phraseology but I think thats close enough)
What happened in this case is the Ever Decent was crossing the lane as it also says in rule 10 with a heading at right angles to the flow of traffic coming from the Thames to Zeebrugge. The Norwegian Dream was the give-way vessel and should have altered to starboard and gone around the stern of the Ever Decent. The reason she did not is likely that her officer of the watch mistakenly felt he had the right of way as he was in the traffic lane. This is a classic situation which has resulted in numerous collisions since traffic separation schemes were introduced. It is usually due to inexperience and uncertainty with the rules. The young officer will wait and wait for the other ship to turn as he is expecting and when he realises he is not he will take action himself, often too late.
I do not make any excuses for them. I am a Master mariner with 22 years experience on the Bridge and consider this type of situation unforgivable but can understand what goes through their minds.
I should also add that this is my own opinion from what I've seen in the press and via my contacts and there could be other factors that I'm not aware of. Also by the way, the fire was as a result of the collision. There was a container in bay 19 on the port side with paints and varnish inside which was ripped open and ignited.

Posts: 315 | From: Miami, Florida, (originally from UK) | Registered: Jun 99

CTrail
First Class Passenger
Member # 64

posted 08-27-1999 11:03 AM

Gerry, thankyou for sharing your seamanship knowledge with us. It is very much appreciated. It's nice to have someone like yourself who has had first hand experience as a ship's master and is able to give everyone here a better insight into the rules of the sea and also to perhaps explain what might have occured.

Nowgotakeontheday:-)

Posts: 332 | From: Kitchener, ON Canada | Registered: Apr 99

Sunseeker
First Class Passenger
Member # 438

posted 08-27-1999 12:30 PM

A really great explanation of what happened.
My thanks also Gerry.

Posts: 19 | From: Central California | Registered: Aug 99

Vaccaro
First Class Passenger
Member # 465

posted 08-27-1999 01:24 PM

I join CTrail and Sunseeker to thank Gerry for his professional knowledge. It's very nice from you. It's true too that the first reports in press are rather incomplete or distorted. (i've heard the fire had began before the collision). So, it seems the collision was the result of a misunderstanding or a mistake and the narrow roads in the Channel, like in many case as Gerry wrote, so the sophisticated equipments are not able to replace entirely the humans yet.
So, to make conclusions about an event, the better is to wait a little and to have the opinion of a professional like Gerry. Thanks again.
Bye.
I add this: i've just read again the last cruise news available on this site and i can read too that the collision arrived while the crew of EVER DECENT was fighting a fire...so at this time, it was established that the fire had began before...maybe the vagueness of the first reports? ...I ask the question.
Another question: now the new is old and i don't heard anything about the actual condition of the two ships. If someone know, tell us.

[This message has been edited by Vaccaro (edited 08-27-99).]

Posts: 1193 | From: France ...where the greatest liners ever are born, ...by far! | Registered: Feb 99

Malcolm @ cruisepage
Cruise Director
Member # 301

posted 08-31-1999 06:47 AM

The fire on the 'Ever Decent' was finally extingished on Monday 30 August,seven days after the collision . Millions of Gallons of watr were used!

Posts: 19210 | From: Essex (Just Outside London) | Registered: A Long Time Ago!

Malcolm @ cruisepage
Cruise Director
Member # 301

posted 12-04-2000 04:28 PM

Update-Update-Update-Update-Update-Update

4th December 2000 - 16 months later we now have the conclusions of the accident investigation:

Norwegian Watch Officer Overwhelmed!

The Bahamian report into the collision pins the blame clearly on the Norwegian Dream and its watch officer.

It concludes that the cruise ship "had a duty to keep out of the way in the encounter with the Ever Decent and the actions which she took did not avoid a collision"

The watch officer was distracted and "failed to appreciate at an early stage that a risk of collision was developing". It was suggested that the array of sophisticated equipment on the bridge of the 'Dream' made matters worse for the harassed watch officer by causing 'information Overload'.

Both ships were severely hampered in taking avoiding action by other vessels around them.
The report said that the Ever Decent's actions were not without fault, she could have done more.

The cruise ship captain , who had not visited the bridge for 5 hours, is criticised for not putting extra officers on duty on the bridge. The captain failed to realise the heavy burden on the watch officer, in this crowded shipping channel*.

Source: Daily Mail Newspaper (UK)

(*400 ships per day pass through the straits of Dover, with 200 others trying to sail across their path).

[This message has been edited by Malcolm (edited 12-04-2000).]

Posts: 19210 | From: Essex (Just Outside London) | Registered: A Long Time Ago! | IP: Logged

K&K
First Class Passenger
Member # 1040

posted 12-04-2000 11:35 PM

Gerry: Once again thank you for your informed input!

MagnmPI: Great to hear from you. I have not noticed any of your comments latley. Is the new baby keeping you up at night, saving for your next cruise or working overtime to save for the college fund!!!
Thanks everyone
Kevin

Posts: 446 | From: Sandpoint,Idaho,USA | Registered: Jan 2000 | IP: Logged

MagnmPI
First Class Passenger
Member # 299

posted 12-05-2000 05:00 AM

Hey K&K,
I underestimated how tiring the first few months of fatherhood would be. The extra "play" time I had to use the computer I now use to catch up on sleep. But slowly but surely I'm finding the time to return to my old habits.

Posts: 545 | From: San Francisco Bay Area | Registered: Aug 99 | IP: Logged

Ðraikar
First Class Passenger
Member # 1153

posted 05-27-2003 04:32 PM

You can see some of the cargo containers from the Cargo ship on Norwegian Dream,

thanks for digging up this post Malcolm.

[ 05-27-2003: Message edited by: Ðraikar ]

Posts: 1710 | From: USA, New York | Registered: Mar 2000 | IP: Logged

Onno
First Class Passenger
Member # 3071

posted 05-27-2003 06:59 PM

From a Dutch news paper at the time.

Onno

Posts: 3583 | From: the Netherlands (Berenbotje ging uit varen...) | Registered: May 2002 | IP: Logged

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