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» Cruise Talk   » Cruise Ships   » DO SHIPS HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT PLANES [b]AGAIN[/b]?

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Author Topic: DO SHIPS HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT PLANES [b]AGAIN[/b]?
Rex
First Class Passenger
Member # 1113

posted 05-31-2000 01:45 PM      Profile for Rex     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
This week's issue of TIME contains an interesting article on a new super-jumbo jet that is as luxurious as any of today's floating palaces. Cabins, gyms, even first-class restaurants will be available.

I did not read the entire article, as I was on my lunch break, but it got me to thinking that maybe today's cruise ships face the same enemy that ended the days of the grand liners - the airplane.

Please weigh in your opinions.

REX


Posts: 1413 | From: Philadelphia PA, USA | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Molly
First Class Passenger
Member # 853

posted 05-31-2000 02:46 PM      Profile for Molly     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Planes will never replace cruise ships for me because I'm afraid to fly. Ships offer a very attractive alternative for me to visit places that I would otherwise not see. I flew one time and did not like one thing about it. Besides, planes arrive at their destinations so quickly that all the frills that you mentioned could not be used to their full potential. Maybe they are going to circle while everyone does step aerobics! My opinion is that ships are here to stay (or at least I hope so)!
Posts: 68 | From: Norman Park, GA USA | Registered: Oct 1999  |  IP: Logged
Terry
First Class Passenger
Member # 448

posted 05-31-2000 03:13 PM      Profile for Terry   Email Terry   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Good question Rex

Though the problem for the planes would be, at the moment anyway, they would have to spend a lot of time on the ground. So all those airports world wide would have to develop new airport cruise terminals!

Still you might take it a bit further. What about holidays in space. There would be a cruise to write home about.

Terry


Posts: 391 | From: Brandon, Norfolk, UK | Registered: Aug 99  |  IP: Logged
Joe at PwC
First Class Passenger
Member # 225

posted 05-31-2000 04:08 PM      Profile for Joe at PwC   Email Joe at PwC   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I agree with Molly. What the heck is the point of having those frills in the first place when most flights don't last long enough to allow people to make use of them? Unless you're flying non-stop to Tahiti from either Europe or the US.....
Posts: 385 | Registered: A Long Time Ago!  |  IP: Logged
Ryndam
First Class Passenger
Member # 1315

posted 06-01-2000 12:51 PM      Profile for Ryndam   Email Ryndam   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
If you are talking about the Airbus 3XX we don't have to worry about. It has been designed to compete with Boeing 747 on transcontinental routes; it will be able to carry from 481 to 656 passengers with a range between 7650 and 8750 nautical miles. On the lower deck it will have few cabins for the first class passegers, and some airlines may install a gym or a restaurant only for publicity. For more information see WWW.airbus.com

[This message has been edited by Ryndam (edited 06-01-2000).]


Posts: 260 | From: Genoa (Italy) | Registered: May 2000  |  IP: Logged
Malcolm @ cruisepage
Cruise Director
Member # 301

posted 06-01-2000 02:11 PM      Profile for Malcolm @ cruisepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Interesting question Rex! I think the time has come for aeroplanes to offer much more comfort. In the early days of flying, good food and silver service was offered - so much for progress!

For a few years the great Airships competed with liners, in terms of their luxury accommodation, plus they were faster (see my posting 'Another type of ship' in the ocean Liners section). People today are getting bigger, but economy class seats are not.

I don't agree with Molly and Joe about 'arriving too quickly'. When I'm on a long haul flight, I'd love to be able to walk around and go into a shop. However, it's hard to imagine airlines giving up there seating capacity.

Perhaps the most ironic point is that it is the cruise industry, which now buys millions of dollars of flights per year. The aeroplane virtually killed the transatlantic liner voyage, but it is now the aeroplane that brings the passengers to the cruise terminals.

You may all think I'm mad, but I belive that one day we will see the return of the luxury passenger carrying Airship. It is argued that they are potentially safer than areoplanes.

This picture is NOT the interior of an Ocean Liner, but of an Airship.

[This message has been edited by Malcolm (edited 06-01-2000).]


Posts: 19210 | From: Essex (Just Outside London) | Registered: A Long Time Ago!  |  IP: Logged
Ascendancy
First Class Passenger
Member # 840

posted 06-01-2000 02:42 PM      Profile for Ascendancy   Email Ascendancy   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
This would be one expensive cruise. Cruising space would be great. Cruising the sky?
Naaaa.

I have never been able to sleep on a plane.
For me, that would be one long cruise!


Posts: 354 | From: Aurora, CO | Registered: Oct 1999  |  IP: Logged
Paddy
First Class Passenger
Member # 357

posted 06-01-2000 02:50 PM      Profile for Paddy   Email Paddy   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I don't think that the two genres of travel could ever really compete again. It is true that more and more long haul airlines are putting in more luxury facilities for first class passengers. From huge seats, to double beds in Virgin Atlantic's Upper Class service. British Airways' are reducing the size of the economy cabin on their long haul aircraft to focus on a more luxurious product. Of course in the largest aircraft there are occasionally bars (most notably in the Boeing 747-100's upper deck and the lower deck on Lockheed's L1011 Tristar - both products of the seventies which pioneered both long haul flying and cheap seats with former airlines like PEOPLExpress), mainly as an attraction, something like an onboard icerink. This idea has been less common in recent years, but after South African Airlines installed a discotech at the back of their Boeing 747-400s on long haul flights over the millennium and have since decided to retain and add this feature, the scope for fun in flying has been widened. This week American Airlines announced their own new first class product - restaurant style tables seating 8-10 people so that it is easy to chat and relax with your fellow passengers. And of course, the Airbus A340 has been designed allowing bedrooms in the lower deck (Virgin Atlantic and Qantas) and anything that the customer desires (El Al Isreali Airlines has been enquiring about an onboard synagogue).
And with the A3XX mentioned by Ryndam, anything is possible.

However, I firmly believe that all these luxuries are designed to tempt people from other airlines, not cruise ships. It is to make existing long haul flights more comfortable for those willing topay top dollar. Cruise lines are now in a whole different market, whose aim is not to get you there, but to get you onboard.


Posts: 763 | From: Belfast, Ireland | Registered: Aug 99  |  IP: Logged
Rex
First Class Passenger
Member # 1113

posted 06-01-2000 04:03 PM      Profile for Rex     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
What you all have said makes more than enough sense, but as SOLAS requirements become stricter (after 2010, NO PASSENGER SHIPS can have ANY wood on them), as well as environmental concerns (weren't some well-known cruise lines fined for dumping garbage into the Caribbean or something?), then planes will once again (if not in OUR lifetime) replace ships...and I wouldn't want to be alive to see THAT...
Posts: 1413 | From: Philadelphia PA, USA | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
NAL
First Class Passenger
Member # 1102

posted 06-01-2000 04:38 PM      Profile for NAL     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Ryndam.....

Great name......one of my favorite Holland
America Line ships....Have you sailed on
it?????


Posts: 2243 | From: Watsontown, PA | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Malcolm @ cruisepage
Cruise Director
Member # 301

posted 06-01-2000 06:30 PM      Profile for Malcolm @ cruisepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I belive that history moves in cycles. Eventually everything comes around again! The age of the great ocean liner has gone, yet more people than ever are taking vacations afloat. The biggest ships ever built are being built now.

I agree with Paddy,at present flying is a method of transport, cruising is a method of pleasure! Both ships and planes can live in harmony. However, just like the Ocean liners evolved from methods of transportation into holiday destinations, anything is possible - even if it is unlikely.

[This message has been edited by Malcolm (edited 06-01-2000).]


Posts: 19210 | From: Essex (Just Outside London) | Registered: A Long Time Ago!  |  IP: Logged
Malcolm @ cruisepage
Cruise Director
Member # 301

posted 06-01-2000 06:36 PM      Profile for Malcolm @ cruisepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Awesome thought for the day:

In one lifetime you could have witnessed the Wright Brothers first flight, and Neil Armstrong walking on the Moon!


Posts: 19210 | From: Essex (Just Outside London) | Registered: A Long Time Ago!  |  IP: Logged
Ryndam
First Class Passenger
Member # 1315

posted 06-02-2000 06:54 AM      Profile for Ryndam   Email Ryndam   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
NAL,
I've been working for six and a half months on the Ryndam. It has been a wonderful experience and I'll never forget her. That's why I've chosen that name.

Posts: 260 | From: Genoa (Italy) | Registered: May 2000  |  IP: Logged
Terry
First Class Passenger
Member # 448

posted 06-04-2000 10:11 AM      Profile for Terry   Email Terry   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The following comes from the New York Times

May 18, 2000


WHAT'S NEXT
Cruise in the Caribbean? How About a Week in Lunar Orbit?
By CATHERINE GREENMAN

Madhu Thangavelu and David Schrunk/Planet Moon Project

VISIONS OF LUNAR FUN - People are thinking of ways to exploit the moon's low gravity for recreation. A magnetically levitated train might take tourists to sights and rides.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

avid Gump's vacation-in-space ideas make activities like sky diving or mountain climbing seem downright ho-hum. "At an orbital resort, you'd either have zero gravity or a low level of gravity, which would be supplied by artificially spinning it," he said. "So there are all sorts of amusements that could be created, such as strapping on a pair of wings and flying around inside a giant orbital or lunar structure."

Mr. Gump, the president of Lunacorp, a company that develops technology and financing for space-related travel, is not alone. He is one of a surprising number of scientists, architects and entrepreneurs who are developing concepts and designs for accommodating tourists in space.

Although the rockets to transport people safely and cheaply to lower earth orbit and beyond have yet to be built, several companies and organizations are preparing for the day when they will be.

Robert Bigelow, owner of Budget Suites of America, said he planned to invest $500 million in the next 15 years toward the building of a space hotel. Passengers in a rocket launched from earth would meet a cruise ship orbiting the moon, he said. The hotel would be able to handle 150 people and 50 crew members on a seven-day trip.

Working off the idea that passengers would eventually become bored with weightlessness in orbit and that they would want a degree of gravity for things like taking a shower and eating at a table, an architecture firm, Wimberly, Allison, Tong & Goo, based in Honolulu, has developed a design for a space resort that combines areas of artificial gravity with areas of weightlessness for a more varied and comfortable trip.

"Seasoned travelers are not going to want to be Velcroed to a wall when they go to sleep," said Howard Wolff, senior vice president of the architectural firm. Mr. Wolff said the structure would be built from tanks used in future space shuttle launchings, which typically measure about 27 feet in diameter and 155 feet in length. The tanks would connect from end to end like a string of hot dogs and form a circle.

The circle of tanks would rotate to create one quarter of the earth's gravity at the outside, and the structure would also house long, cylindrical walkways toward the center of the circle, similar to the spokes of a wheel, that would lead passengers to an area of zero gravity for activities in a weightless environment.

Space tourism, however, depends on the development of a rocket that can shuttle passengers cheaply and safely enough to sustain the potential tourism industry. Indeed, Mr. Bigelow said that building a space hotel might entice rocket manufacturers to build the means of transporting guests to inhabit it.

"We're hoping that when our hotel is ready to be launched and put in orbit that we have the launch capabilities," Mr. Bigelow said. "We're very co-dependent on the launch community's success in being able to provide good launchers."

The X-Prize, initiated a few years ago by a group of Missouri investors to create a "New Spirit of St. Louis," will award $10 million to the company that manufactures a rocket that successfully transports three passengers into lower earth orbit (www.xprize.org). The reusable launch vehicle must travel 62 miles or higher above the earth and must be able to repeat the procedure within 14 days of landing.

Peter Diamandis, the competition's founder and chairman, said the prize was designed to encourage competition among rocket companies and to help them build awareness about the potential market for suborbital flights. Once suborbital flights are successful, he said, the potential for traveling into orbit and eventually to the moon will open up.

"The biggest issue is raising the funds to build these flights," Mr. Diamandis said. "We developed this as the very first step toward suborbital flights. The X-Prize vehicle's required velocity is Mach 5, whereas a space shuttle requires Mach 25, so we've chosen the lowest first hurdle." More than 10 companies are competing for the prize.

In addition to developers who are designing structures for space travel, several universities, including George Washington University and the University of Southern California, have introduced classes that address elements of the burgeoning space tourism industry, classes like space policy, architecture and the sociology of space travel. The Space Tourism Society, founded in 1995, has a site at www.space-tourism-society.org.

"When you're removed from gravity, you're not used to functioning with that force gone out of you," said Madhu Thangavelu, a space architect who teaches courses in building space habitats at the University of Southern California. " How do we keep people happy under these constraints?"

Until the space resorts -- and the means to get to them -- come to fruition, several companies, including Space Adventures, based in Reston, Va., offer real but somewhat limited space travel vacations.

For $5,400, a space enthusiast can go to Moscow and board the Ilyushin-76, a zero-gravity training jet used by the Russian Space Agency to prepare cosmonauts for space travel; $12,600 will buy a trip on a Mig 25 fighter that soars to an altitude of 82,000 feet, giving passengers a view of the curvature of the earth.

Another company, Space Camp, has five-day programs for children in Alabama, Florida and California, starting at $699; a weekend program for parents and children is $658 (www.spacecamp.com).

Sarah Dalton, marketing director at Space Adventures, said the company has taken 140 reservations for suborbital flights, to be taken when a reusable launch vehicle comes to market.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Related Sites
These sites are not part of The New York Times on the Web, and The Times has no control over their content or availability.

www.xprize.org
www.space-tourism-society.org
www.spacecamp.com


The future is there, you only have to embrace it!

Terry Donegan


Posts: 391 | From: Brandon, Norfolk, UK | Registered: Aug 99  |  IP: Logged

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