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» Cruise Talk   » Cruise Ships   » Bullying on cruise ships

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Author Topic: Bullying on cruise ships
Paddy
First Class Passenger
Member # 357

posted 10-28-2000 07:31 PM      Profile for Paddy   Email Paddy   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Ha anyone ever come across this? Bullying does manifest itself in many ways, but has anyone ever seen intimidation among passengers, or discrimination or racism or something. Personally I haven't, but when I was on the Seawing this summer we were in the lounge one night with a Scottish family who had been on the previous week as well and he was telling us about a gay couple showing a sign of affection (arms around each other while dancing - like, how dare they!) and I juist thought it must have been very sad for them to come on vacation and be the topic of conversation for so many people. Personally I have a live and let live attitude, but does anyone have any stories to share?

Paddy.


Posts: 763 | From: Belfast, Ireland | Registered: Aug 99  |  IP: Logged
Ascendancy
First Class Passenger
Member # 840

posted 10-31-2000 06:45 PM      Profile for Ascendancy   Email Ascendancy   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
My wife is of American Indian descent. Two fat Brits who she didn't even know asked her to go fetch them some cappachino. I know what I would of said if I were her. Fortunately for them, my wife politely told them where to get it. She's too nice!

How's that for bullying.


Posts: 354 | From: Aurora, CO | Registered: Oct 1999  |  IP: Logged
jeff
First Class Passenger
Member # 614

posted 10-31-2000 11:56 PM      Profile for jeff     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
funny...being gay myself....i found there have been no problems as of yet on any of the cruises i've been on....of course i have been told that no one would have the guts to say that to my face....(been told i look like a football player and built like mr. universe).
but friends of mine were told to leave the lounge after showing effection other than holding hands.....they said to get lost....and they did....it was a passenger not crew aboard the "seabreeze".....jeff

Posts: 180 | From: vancouver,b.c.,canada | Registered: Jun 99  |  IP: Logged
Steve Read (sread)
First Class Passenger
Member # 788

posted 11-01-2000 05:10 AM      Profile for Steve Read (sread)   Author's Homepage   Email Steve Read (sread)   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Er, jeff: can you define "affection other than holding hands"? I think many passengers might have just cause to be upset or embarrassed if ANY couple were necking or groping in the lounges, regardless of their sexuality. If passion's running that high, a brisk walk back to the cabin would be more appropriate? ;-)

I'm not gay and I'm not a homophobe. But I do hate the "I'm gay ... OKAY?" attitude of some, who want to force their sexuality down everyone's throat and who interpret the slightest criticism as gay-bashing. Standards of behaviour should apply to everyone, no matter what race/colour/orientation they are.


Posts: 926 | From: Locksbottom, Kent, England | Registered: Jul 99  |  IP: Logged
Rex
First Class Passenger
Member # 1113

posted 11-01-2000 11:22 AM      Profile for Rex     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I am African-American (I think many of you have guessed this based on some of my posts, and hopefully, it's not an issue) and when I tell people I have been on cruises, I have gotten responses like, "I didn't know black people liked cruise ships!" or even this one, which is classic, "Was it Carnival?" Though to Carnival's credit, they do have hairstylist/barbers for those of African descent, and are popular with black tour groups, so maybe that's why they asked. I do remember laying in a deck chair on the SERENADE and one of my Navy buddies my girlfriend and I went on the cruise with asking me why I needed to lay out in the sun - I was "dark" already. Hmmmm....I like to get darker, maybe?

Even my own family has teased me because of my "white" hobby of loving ocean liners/cruise ships. Oh well...

As for the gay couple, people should just leave them alone. Maybe the Bible says it's a sin (and the Bible is a rather interpretive piece of literature, as we all know), but it ain't a crime and they deserve to be treated with respect just like anyone else. As much as cruises cost, the last thing a person wants is to have to worry about being stared at because of their color, or sexual orientation, or anything else...

[This message has been edited by Rex (edited 11-01-2000).]


Posts: 1413 | From: Philadelphia PA, USA | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
RICHARD CHUDY
First Class Passenger
Member # 1323

posted 11-01-2000 12:23 PM      Profile for RICHARD CHUDY   Email RICHARD CHUDY   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Rex......Well said!!!!
Richard

Posts: 195 | From: Singal Hill, CA 90755 In sight of The Queen Mary | Registered: May 2000  |  IP: Logged
seatrial
First Class Passenger
Member # 1658

posted 11-01-2000 12:53 PM      Profile for seatrial     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
My partner and I, both in our late twenties, recently went on our first cruise together. We had a great time despite our aprehension about people "finding out".

Rex said it best, and it's true that after spending hard earned money and precious time away from work it's awful to have to worry about what others will say or think. I will say that while on the cruise I did feel a little resentful that I did not feel that we could participate as a couple in some of the things that might make others feel uncomfortable, but that is no different than what is experienced every day.

People can be narrow minded and can sometimes forget that their beliefs are not necessarily the beliefs of everyone else. The world would be a boring place if we were all the same.


Posts: 122 | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged
lambcom
First Class Passenger
Member # 656

posted 11-01-2000 01:09 PM      Profile for lambcom   Email lambcom   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I just want to say I applaud the open-minded attitude of the vast majority of people who post on this site. As a relative newcomer (and straight, for what it's worth) I`m proud to be part of this community!
Posts: 179 | From: Montreal, canada | Registered: Jul 99  |  IP: Logged
RICHARD CHUDY
First Class Passenger
Member # 1323

posted 11-01-2000 01:26 PM      Profile for RICHARD CHUDY   Email RICHARD CHUDY   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Is this coming out of the cabin day or what? This is very open and interesting. I am so pleased to be a part of this fine group of people. You have a great site Joe.
With Kindest Regards
Richard

Posts: 195 | From: Singal Hill, CA 90755 In sight of The Queen Mary | Registered: May 2000  |  IP: Logged
Malcolm @ cruisepage
Cruise Director
Member # 301

posted 11-01-2000 05:24 PM      Profile for Malcolm @ cruisepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Black, Gay, Disabled, Old or Young - everyone is equal in the virtual reality that is CruieTalk!

Like Jeff I am lucky too. I'm 6ft 5ins tall and built like Arnie, with the looks of Brad Pitt, with an IQ of 300. Honest!

The problems start when we are back into the real world. Ships are now mini-cities with all the prejudices of the wider world.


Posts: 19210 | From: Essex (Just Outside London) | Registered: A Long Time Ago!  |  IP: Logged
JohnM
First Class Passenger
Member # 1246

posted 11-02-2000 06:14 AM      Profile for JohnM   Author's Homepage   Email JohnM   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Prejudice is based on ignorance. Open communication like on this board is the antithesis to that. Here you cannot see what is on the outside, only what is on the inside. Maybe it's a good thing we don't see the motley crew we're associating with here.
Posts: 40 | From: Georgia, USA | Registered: Apr 2000  |  IP: Logged
BenBen
First Class Passenger
Member # 1515

posted 11-02-2000 09:54 AM      Profile for BenBen     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
My lover (gay) and I have been on three cruises, two on Carnival and one on Princess. On all three we were one of the only gay couples on board (we all seem to find each other by the second night!). Anyway, on our first cruise (7 night Mexican Riveria on the Elation) our dinner table companions were an older very opinionated (think Rudy from Survivor) couple and a mormon (as in no caffeine, no liquor, no gambling -- what are they doing on a cruise?) couple on their honeymoon. It did not take long for them to figure out what we were all about and surprisingly it turned out to be a gay old time -- nobody switched tables and we always had great conversations, even hung out in other places on the ship. Quite frankly, my opinion of cruise ships have always been that people leave their troubles AND their prejudices behind. Its only a few days and after returning home, you never see these people again, so why not just have a great time and meet some new people. My only advice to gay couples on cruise ships is to watch out for the ship's dancers -- they can be very "hands on". As a side note, I would NEVER take an all gay cruise...talk about public displays of affection...they are just one big Roman Orgy from what I hear.
Posts: 10 | From: New York, New York USA | Registered: Aug 2000  |  IP: Logged
Malcolm @ cruisepage
Cruise Director
Member # 301

posted 11-02-2000 10:11 AM      Profile for Malcolm @ cruisepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by JohnM:
Maybe it's a good thing we don't see the motley crew we're associating with here.

JohnM, what do you mean - motley crew? We all look like movie stars


Posts: 19210 | From: Essex (Just Outside London) | Registered: A Long Time Ago!  |  IP: Logged
jeff
First Class Passenger
Member # 614

posted 11-04-2000 02:44 AM      Profile for jeff     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
.....just checked back bullying....and yes "sread"....i totally dis-agree on ANYONE going aroung grabbing and groping.....i find that quite rude and very forward...so again...i agree on THAT type of affection.....there's always the cabin close by.
i've read all the messages.....and yes i'm glad i've found the RIGHT chat room for cruise and liner lovers.....take care everyone....chat soon....jeff.
p.s.....malcolm....i never tell a lie..lol

Posts: 180 | From: vancouver,b.c.,canada | Registered: Jun 99  |  IP: Logged
Steve Read (sread)
First Class Passenger
Member # 788

posted 11-04-2000 05:09 AM      Profile for Steve Read (sread)   Author's Homepage   Email Steve Read (sread)   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Hilarious moment on the Classica the other week. My girlfriend and I (both Brits) became friends with three American guys, of whom two were gay and all three were great fun.
We were in different places at the bar. They sent a couple of drinks over, so we raised our glasses to them and said: "God bless America!"
They responded by raising their glasses and saying: "And God save the Queens!!!"
None of the five of us could finish our drinks, we were laughing so much.

Posts: 926 | From: Locksbottom, Kent, England | Registered: Jul 99  |  IP: Logged
desirod7
First Class Passenger
Member # 1626

posted 07-01-2002 04:39 PM      Profile for desirod7     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The Regal Empress had 2 burly security guards.
On that ship was not rowdy teens, but rowdy adults.

One year a fist fight broke out on the buffet line.

Both were the 2 day gambling cruises out of NYC


Posts: 5727 | From: Philadelphia, Pa [home of the SS United States] | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged
Green
First Class Passenger
Member # 171

posted 07-01-2002 08:17 PM      Profile for Green     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by sread:
Er, ...... I think many passengers might have just cause to be upset or embarrassed if ANY couple were necking or groping in the lounges, regardless of their sexuality. If passion's running that high, a brisk walk back to the cabin would be more appropriate? ;-)

......... I do hate the "I'm gay ... OKAY?" attitude of some, who want to force their sexuality down everyone's throat and who interpret the slightest criticism as gay-bashing. Standards of behaviour should apply to everyone, no matter what race/colour/orientation they are.


My feelings exactly - race, regligion, colour or creed make no difference to me - but I dislike 'grandstanders' - as someone else said, "live and let live" - enjoy your cruise and allow others to do the same.

Happy cruisin'


Posts: 2913 | From: Markham, Ontario, Canada | Registered: Jul 99  |  IP: Logged
Green
First Class Passenger
Member # 171

posted 07-01-2002 08:29 PM      Profile for Green     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Ascendancy - I would say that your wife showed ' great class' - a quality sadly lacked by the 'fat folk'' whatever their nationality. Her polite reply probably put them in 'their place' very adequately.

Happy cruisin'


            


Posts: 2913 | From: Markham, Ontario, Canada | Registered: Jul 99  |  IP: Logged
Dolphins
First Class Passenger
Member # 2043

posted 07-01-2002 11:33 PM      Profile for Dolphins   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Agree completely with sread and Green. I couldn't have said it better.
Posts: 324 | From: Commack, New York | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
ROTTERBRANDT
unregistered

posted 07-02-2002 12:09 AM           Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Green:

My feelings exactly - race, regligion, colour or creed make no difference to me - but I dislike 'grandstanders' - as someone else said, "live and let live" - enjoy your cruise and allow others to do the same.

Happy cruisin'


Yes. Unless my own space is invaded, the best way to simply ignore it or make them look rediculous.

I spent time in Thailand. People do not lose their temper there, but get what they want out of you. Anyone who loses their temper or acts in an obstreporous way, gets looked at as if they are crazy. It works.

Example: When driving, if someone flips the middle finger, I have learned to laugh out loud, it puts them off balance and stops their rage.

A stern 5th grade teacher type will always have a student who will 'yank their chain" just to get a rise.

On a ship where there are many different types. People behave better. When any social setting is predominantly one type, they tend to 'act out' and grandstand.

When bullied, what are the consequences of fighting back?

[ 07-02-2002: Message edited by: ROTTERBRANDT ]


IP: Logged
Budgie
First Class Passenger
Member # 2902

posted 07-02-2002 04:11 AM      Profile for Budgie   Email Budgie   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
An interesting thread and I agree with a lot of what has been posted so far. Over the years I have had many friends, two very good ones ‘came out’ and admitted they were gay, so what, they were my friends before I knew so why not after? Over the years I have now lost contact with both, but not because of their sexuality. I for one, like most people, either like or dislike someone for a variety of reasons. Maybe dislike is a bit strong but some people you like more than others. Whatever those reasons are they are never race, religion, colour, creed or sexuality, unless, as previously stated they are part of the soapbox brigade.
I was thinking about a few comments made on this post about people’s attitudes. For what it’s worth here they are. In the UK almost all school children wear school uniform. This is for a number of reasons, to identify the school and give a sense of belonging is one but to create equality is another. Regardless of background all are dressed the same, look the same. This may be changing in today’s more modern times with designer labels for shoes, mobile phones etc. but the basic principal is the same. When you see a group of children walking to school you do not know the ones from not so well off families, the more well off families, unemployed or single parent families. They dress and look the same. To me this is similar to cruise ship passengers, especially on formal nights. All the men are dressed in dinner suits and the ladies in evening gowns, all very much level with each other. When you are in a line next to someone, and they are dressed in a similar way, there is no way to tell if that person in the CEO of a multi national company or your local road cleaner and as such you have no pre-conceived ideas from the start. Would you be intimidated to start a conversation with the CEO of a multi national company or a road cleaner if you first met them in their working environment, would you have them at your dinner table? Can you say, hand on heart, that your first impressions would not be guided by pre-conceived ideas as a result of their occupations?
Cruises, unlike most other forms of holiday, are a great leveller and it is for this reason that I would never expect any trouble, or prejudice, on board a ship. My wife and I always feel safe and I do not worry if my two teenagers wanted to go to a different place to eat or see a different show, I know they will be safe. I am always sorry that at the end of a cruise I have to go back to the real world. Maybe this is one reason, of many, that people cruise again and again, maybe without ever realising it.

Posts: 174 | From: Liverpool: The world in one city. | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
Malcolm @ cruisepage
Cruise Director
Member # 301

posted 07-02-2002 06:50 AM      Profile for Malcolm @ cruisepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
As we are on the theme of sexuality, here's a question:

Many maritime enthusiasts, authors, lecturers and crew onboard ships are gay. I would suggest that there is a higher percentage of gay men in this field than the standard pattern of distribution.

I have no problem. However, I am curios about what exactly attracts gay men to maritime interests and cruising?


Posts: 19210 | From: Essex (Just Outside London) | Registered: A Long Time Ago!  |  IP: Logged
desirod7
First Class Passenger
Member # 1626

posted 07-02-2002 12:19 PM      Profile for desirod7     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by sread:
Er, jeff: can you define "affection other than holding hands"? I think many passengers might have just cause to be upset or embarrassed if ANY couple were necking or groping in the lounges, regardless of their sexuality. If passion's running that high, a brisk walk back to the cabin would be more appropriate? ;-)


Green, Sread, and Dolphins,

I would be nauseated watching Onslow and Daisy french kissing, same with Phyllis Diller and Roseanne Barr.

Malcolm, cruising is a gay and lesbian thing, and cannot put a finger on the reasons.

Green, Sread, and Dolphins,

You will see more and more of Gay and Lesbian cruisers in the future.

Many mainstream cruisehips have dedicated gay and lesbian activities. Princess calls them the 'Friends of Dorothy" parties.

When this happens you will see less and less of outward affection in public.

When visiting Egypt, I noticed men walk the street arm in arm. Women walk the street arm in arm. It is customary, but men and women cannot walk the street arm in arm. Most of the tourists got used to it fast. I do not understand it.

Gay and Lesbian cruisers are the only growth market left in this industry where filling berths is a 0 sum game.

Whether it is individual passengers, partial ship charters, or full ship charters, Gays and Lesbians will take more and more cruises. The cruise lines want the business.

So, as you say, lets live and let live, be out of each other's faces, and enjoy the passengers we meet for who they are and not what genitalia turn them on.

[ 07-02-2002: Message edited by: desirod6 ]


Posts: 5727 | From: Philadelphia, Pa [home of the SS United States] | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged

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