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» Cruise Talk   » Cruise Ships   » SUN VISTA Report Criticised

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Author Topic: SUN VISTA Report Criticised
Terry
First Class Passenger
Member # 448

posted 12-15-2000 09:01 AM      Profile for Terry   Email Terry   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The Bamahas report on the sinking of the SUN VISTA near Malaysia has been criticised by a Singapore Company. What do you think?
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BMA Report Critical Of Cruise Ship's Condition
WorldNews.com, Wed 13 Dec 2000


Sembcorp Industries, Singapore's largest engineering and construction contractor, has criticised a report by the Bahamas Maritime Authority (BMA) on the Sun Vista cruise ship.(AFP Photo)
correspondent Christos Gabrielides.

Sembcorp Industries, Singapore's largest engineering and construction contractor, has criticised a report by the Bahamas Maritime Authority (BMA) on the Sun Vista cruise ship.

The BMA report on the cruise ship, which sank in the Malacca Straits last May following an engine-room fire, stated that the Sun Vista was "an old ship in poor mechanical condition and requiring considerable refurbishment of the main and auxiliary machinery and safety equipment," according to industry sources.

The BMA report further claims that the ship's management company, Sembawang Shipmanagement, formerly a unit of Sembcorp Industries (since divested to Norway's Tschudi & Eitzen), was aware of the vessel's problems. The report was quoted as saying: "The vessel was allowed to continue in service with the crew having to deal with machinery breakdowns on a frequent basis...This was done with the full knowledge of Sembawang Shipmanagement...They knew better than anyone the deficiencies in the vessel, yet allowed it to continue in operation, increasing the risk of emergencies such as eventually occurred."

The report is also critical of ABS, stating: ""The condition of the vessel's machinery, fire detection system, fire dampers, lifeboats and davits should have given rise to greater scrutiny by the American Bureau of Shipping, and required urgent action to have been undertaken while the vessel remained in service."

However, Sembcorp has pointed out that only three months before the vessel sank, the BMA surveyed the cruise ship, while a few months previous to that the American Bureau of Shipping issued Sun Vista with a Passenger and Safety Certificate. Sembcorp are quoted as saying: "If the vessel's machinery and equipment were in fact in such poor condition, the vessel would not have passed the surveys carried out by the bureau and the BMA."

The BMA report noted that there were no serious injuries or deaths resulting from the accident, but emphasised that the situation could have been much worse had the fire broken out during the night. Over 1,100 passengers and crew onboard the Sun Vista were rescued, having boarded the ship's lifeboats.
=====

Terry Donegan


Posts: 391 | From: Brandon, Norfolk, UK | Registered: Aug 99  |  IP: Logged
gohaze
First Class Passenger
Member # 586

posted 12-15-2000 01:04 PM      Profile for gohaze   Email gohaze   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Terry...thanks for posting that, it would be interesting to get the whole report. It's not surprising tho'. Nearly 40 years old, steam, and another case of conflict of interest by Class. She probably was in poor shape down below.
...peter

Posts: 1909 | From: Vancouver.BC | Registered: Sep 99  |  IP: Logged
desirod7
First Class Passenger
Member # 1626

posted 12-15-2000 02:16 PM      Profile for desirod7     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I had heard that she was deliberately sunk to collect $80m in insurance. Premier was going to buy her for $50m.

I doubt Premier could have gotton the financing considering her financial shape in May 99.

Sun is out of business.
If Carnival or RCCL cruise line had a sinking
it could ruin them. If Regal or Commodore did, it is the end of the them.


Posts: 5727 | From: Philadelphia, Pa [home of the SS United States] | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged
Paddy
First Class Passenger
Member # 357

posted 12-15-2000 03:37 PM      Profile for Paddy   Email Paddy   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I think the sinking of a ship can mean the end for any cruise line. Many say the death of Pan Am was largely contributed to by the Lockerbie disaster, so if a ship goes down with 3,000 people on it...

Paddy.


Posts: 763 | From: Belfast, Ireland | Registered: Aug 99  |  IP: Logged
gohaze
First Class Passenger
Member # 586

posted 12-15-2000 04:13 PM      Profile for gohaze   Email gohaze   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Paddy...HAL lost the Prinsendam to an engineroom fire in the North Pacific - it didn't seem to have done them any harm.
...peter

Posts: 1909 | From: Vancouver.BC | Registered: Sep 99  |  IP: Logged
Terry
First Class Passenger
Member # 448

posted 12-15-2000 05:01 PM      Profile for Terry   Email Terry   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Peter;
The following was published in the December 1 2000 edition of Lloyds
List


"Sun Vista blaze due to 'lax scrutiny'

David Osler

The Bahamas Maritime Authority has claimed that fire-stricken cruiseship
Sun Vista, which sank last year, was in such poor shape that she should
not have been granted a passenger and safety certificate or even allowed
to remain in class.
The charge has prompted and angry response from the American Bureau of
Ship-ping. The US classification society has taken the unusual step of
releasing correspondence between its chief surveyor and the flag state
in which it is argued that the vessel was in fact well maintained.
Explicit charges of lax scrutiny on the part of ABS are contained in the
flag state's hard-hitting report into the blaze on the vessel in May
last year, which led to the dramatic evacuation of around 1,100 people
in the Malacca Strait.
All lives were saved, with just eight people in hospital after what
could have been a major casualty.
While the Bahamas report places ultimate blame for the casualty on
specific actions of the master and chief engineer, it adds: "It would,
however, be too simplistic to lay the blame for the sinking of the
vessel entirely on the crew.
"There were other contributory factors and these should be recognised.
"The captain and crew were entitled to rely on the ship managers to
provide the means to maintain the vessel and her equipment in a
satisfactory condition, and for support during emergencies from the
emergency response team."
The ship was at the time managed by Sembawang Shipmanagement, which is
openly accused of covering up its shortcomings by lying to both class
and flag.
The company has since been taken over by Tschudi & Eitzen of Norway,
which may now be subject to additional attention where it manages
Bahamian flag ships.
Tschudi & Eitzen principal Axel Eitzen said yesterday that he could not
comment as he had not read the report.
However, his company had taken over Sembawang well after the incident
and had now introduced quality standards in line with those of the
well-regarded group.
The report goes on the make sharp criticisms of the role of ABS.
"The condition of the vessel's machinery, fire detection system, fire
dampers, lifeboats and davits should have given rise to greater scrutiny
by the American Bureau of Shipping and required urgent action to have
been undertaken while the vessel remained in service," it states.
The condition of the ship, and in particular the auxiliary and
propulsion machinery, created circumstances in which a fire was likely
to develop, the report argues.
It goes on: "A closer scrutiny of the vessel by the classification
society might have identified the most serious of the mechanical
failings and required remedial action to be taken."
Asked by Lloyd's List to respond to the allegations, the American Bureau
of Ship-ping released a copy of a letter to the Bahamas Maritime
Authority from chief surveyor Gus Bourneuf.
Mr Bourneuf wrote: "It is the responsibility of the classification
society to survey the equipment and judge its fitness for purpose,
assuming that it will subsequently be maintained and operated in
accordance with standard practice.
"The attending surveyors have been interviewed and it is the opinion of
ABS that the survey reports accurately reflected the condition of the
vessel at the time of the survey and did not warrant suspension of
class."
It goes on: "These surveyors have confirmed that, in their opinion, the
vessel was being well maintained."
Mr Bourneuf ended by suggesting a meeting to discuss the report in
greater detail."

Terry Donegan


Posts: 391 | From: Brandon, Norfolk, UK | Registered: Aug 99  |  IP: Logged
Paddy
First Class Passenger
Member # 357

posted 12-15-2000 06:59 PM      Profile for Paddy   Email Paddy   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I don't actually know much about the Prinsendam disaster. When was it? I can hardly imagine a huge company like Carnival Corp. or Royal Caribbean going to the proverbial tubes, but is that to say a smaller line such as the aforementioned Commodore or Regal would survive (lets face it no cruise line is going to get far with out a ship - not necessarily in this case) or indeed one of the brands of Carnival or RCI would disappear. At the very least a cruise line, especially nowadays when there are so many other rivals to chose when one line has negative publicity (not so much the case when travelling by ship was a neccesity and you had to choose the one which offered the route you needed), is going to see major profit problems for quite an uncormfortable period. It may recover. It may go bust. Or it may rebrand itself (eg like ValuJet did after its series of DC9 jet crashes, one in the everglades, followed by serious media damage and an FAA grounding and indictment, leading to its rebranding and merger as AirTran). Cruising is an extremely volatile market as it is one of luxury, not necessity, and the elasticities of media image are extremely high.

Paddy.


Posts: 763 | From: Belfast, Ireland | Registered: Aug 99  |  IP: Logged
gohaze
First Class Passenger
Member # 586

posted 12-16-2000 11:15 AM      Profile for gohaze   Email gohaze   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Terry...thanks again.
I note that despite the severe criticism of ABS the Chief Surveyor, Gus Bourneuf, only says that the condition did not warrant "suspension of Class".
That only involves the Hull and Machinery certificates which are required to sail and obtain insurance.

He has ignored the survey and certification of the lifesaving and firefighting equipment and arrangements...which was SUPPOSED to have been carried out by ABS on behalf of the Flag State, and was also severely criticised.

This is the classic case again of conflict of interest by Classification Societies. They are hired by the owners to keep their vessels in Class. And if they become too stringent the owners have no hesitation in changing to another one less demanding. Just look at an old problem ship and see how many it has had...going down the scale.

On the other hand they are representing the Flag administration to ensure that the ship complies fully with national and international laws and regulations for things like firefighting, lifesaving, pollution, crew manning etc.

You get too tough for the owner's liking on those things and you lose your Class it's surveys.

Neither is it realised that many of the Class surveyors are part time, called non-exclusive, in the smaller ports, and are local private surveyors who may even represent more than one Class. They are very open to local pressures in many parts of the world..naturally.

If anyone doubts this goes on...it's the reason why we now have some governments combining to carry out their own spot-check inspections referred to as 'port-state control'.

Once again, thanks for posting it.
...peter


Posts: 1909 | From: Vancouver.BC | Registered: Sep 99  |  IP: Logged
gohaze
First Class Passenger
Member # 586

posted 12-16-2000 09:50 PM      Profile for gohaze   Email gohaze   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Paddy....Prinsendam. Have a look at www.alaska.net/~jcassidy/pop-mech.htm

....peter


Posts: 1909 | From: Vancouver.BC | Registered: Sep 99  |  IP: Logged
Scottylass
First Class Passenger
Member # 420

posted 12-17-2000 12:41 PM      Profile for Scottylass   Email Scottylass   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Terry:

Did you ever see the programme that was on British TV about the sinking of this ship, there was video footage taken by a passenger from the lifeboats and I thought at the time that the ship did not look too bad and could have been saved. Thats what it looked like anyway in this programme.

Cheers
M.


Posts: 648 | From: Stirlingshire, Scotland | Registered: Jul 99  |  IP: Logged
Terry
First Class Passenger
Member # 448

posted 12-17-2000 06:41 PM      Profile for Terry   Email Terry   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Mary,

I must have missed that one. The most memorable [If that's the word for it.]cruise ship sinking on TV I saw was Epirotiki's OCEANUS off South Africa. The crew for the most part left it to the entertainers and cruise staff to help the passengers.

Terry Donegan


Posts: 391 | From: Brandon, Norfolk, UK | Registered: Aug 99  |  IP: Logged
gohaze
First Class Passenger
Member # 586

posted 12-17-2000 07:17 PM      Profile for gohaze   Email gohaze   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Did you see the posting that the 'SeaBreeze' has sunk? Another one, steam, 42 years old, it would be interesting to know what Class she was.
At least she beat the knacker's yard.
....peter

Posts: 1909 | From: Vancouver.BC | Registered: Sep 99  |  IP: Logged
Brenda
First Class Passenger
Member # 1377

posted 12-21-2000 12:59 PM      Profile for Brenda   Author's Homepage   Email Brenda   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
There is a dedicated website run by some of the passengers who were in the ill-fated Sun Vista. http://sunvista.ukf.net/sunvista
Message for Scottylass - the TV program was 'Holidays From Hell' ITV Yorkshire Television.

Posts: 52 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2000  |  IP: Logged
Scottylass
First Class Passenger
Member # 420

posted 12-21-2000 01:36 PM      Profile for Scottylass   Email Scottylass   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
That's it Brenda, I had forgotten the name of it, knew it was more to do with holidays rather than just cruising. Thanks for that.

Will check out the website now.

Cheers
M.


Posts: 648 | From: Stirlingshire, Scotland | Registered: Jul 99  |  IP: Logged
Ascendancy
First Class Passenger
Member # 840

posted 12-21-2000 02:40 PM      Profile for Ascendancy   Email Ascendancy   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I am very suspicious about any sinking of a cruise ship. You can rig it to sink or just not maintain it, either way a ship will sink and it's foul play. If the Captain or crew strike something and the ship sinks, that's because of incompetense and that's another story. Paddy is right,if any of the big cruise companies lose a ship, they will go down. I won't sail with them that's for sure.
Posts: 354 | From: Aurora, CO | Registered: Oct 1999  |  IP: Logged
Rex
First Class Passenger
Member # 1113

posted 12-22-2000 09:23 AM      Profile for Rex     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I brought this topic up this past spring and several people suggested that the MERIDIAN/SUN VISTA was in impeccable condition for a 36-year old liner. The consensus was that Celebrity spent a lot of money on her for upgrading. Did the US Coast Guard not give her the green light when she pulled into US ports shortly before her sale? I know people who sailed her, and there were never any problems with machinery or electricity or anything like that, according to them.

I don't understand how they can now say she was unfit to sail...


Posts: 1413 | From: Philadelphia PA, USA | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged

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