Cruise Talk: More problems for Millennium

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»	Cruise Talk » Cruise Ships » More problems for Millennium

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Topic: More problems for Millennium

Ryndam
First Class Passenger
Member # 1315

posted 01-09-2001 04:11 AM

Millennium is experiencing a problem with its Mermaid pods. The ship is currently operating at about 50% of its normal propulsion capacity and is capable of a top speed of 20 knots (instead of 24). Celebrity is evaluating whether another drydock for the ship will be necessary. This would be the second dry-dock after its introduction last year since she underwent a three-week drydock to correct a stern hull design flaw that was causing vibration. The pods used on the Millennium are different from the ones used on the Elation and Paradise, and they will be used on the Queen Mary 2.

Ryndam

Posts: 260 | From: Genoa (Italy) | Registered: May 2000 | IP: Logged

Malcolm @ cruisepage
Cruise Director
Member # 301

posted 01-09-2001 05:21 AM

I understand that Azipods are meant to reduce vibration at the stern, however this has not entirely worked for the Mellinium.

Maybe this relatively new technology has been incorporated too soon?

Posts: 19210 | From: Essex (Just Outside London) | Registered: A Long Time Ago! | IP: Logged

Gerry
First Class Passenger
Member # 168

posted 01-09-2001 09:33 AM

Azipod is a tradename of ABB and is different product from Mermaid which is produced by Kamewa, owned by Rolls Royce and with Alstom electrics. The other player on the market is Siemens-Schottel who produce a pod they call Dolphin. This one is very different to the others as it relies on permanent magnets rather than induction coils in the other 2.
The Dolphin has to have large converters inboard which takes up space and they are at least theoretically only supposed to last until the magnetism fades, although Siemens claim a very long life.
The major cruise lines using pods have,up intil recently, chosen ABB Azipods as they were the only viable manufacturer until Kamewa's Mermaid came on the scene. The Azipod has a slipring arrangement to transfer the current to the motor which has been problematic in the past, the Mermaid has a different arrangement which transfers the current with an arm and the slipring only operates when manouvering. The seal system is different aswell. All in all, my own preference is for the Mermaid due to its improved design. They watched the problems everyone else was having before designing their own and subsequently are now getting the vote from a number of operators.

Posts: 315 | From: Miami, Florida, (originally from UK) | Registered: Jun 99 | IP: Logged

Gerry
First Class Passenger
Member # 168

posted 01-09-2001 09:35 AM

The other question about the vibration on Millennium was not related to the pods but was in the stern arrangement and the natural frequency of the vessel.

Posts: 315 | From: Miami, Florida, (originally from UK) | Registered: Jun 99 | IP: Logged

cncservo
First Class Passenger
Member # 532

posted 01-09-2001 10:30 AM

Gerry:
This is very interseting concerning the theory of the different types of motors. In industry slip rings have mostly given way to brushless DC motors. The permanent magnets have been installed on the rotor instead of the field winding thus eliminating the need for brushes and eliminating the mechanical problems associated with them. Why is the brushless DC or AC servo not used on cruise ship motors.

Does anyone know how I could tour the engine room of a cruise ship, I'd sure like to see those babies.

Posts: 170 | Registered: May 99 | IP: Logged

Stevesan
First Class Passenger
Member # 1494

posted 01-09-2001 11:11 AM

quote:
Originally posted by cncservo:
Gerry:
This is very interseting concerning the theory of the different types of motors. In industry slip rings have mostly given way to brushless DC motors. The permanent magnets have been installed on the rotor instead of the field winding thus eliminating the need for brushes and eliminating the mechanical problems associated with them. Why is the brushless DC or AC servo not used on cruise ship motors.
Does anyone know how I could tour the engine room of a cruise ship, I'd sure like to see those babies.

We toured the engine room on HAL's RVI by submitting a written request to the Hotel Manager. The tour was fascinating. Anyone with the slightest mechanical interest would enjoy it immensely. Unfortunately, HAL has discontinued pax tours for liability reasons (I guess someone slipped, fell and sued for ten million or so). If, however, you are next on a different line than HAL, try inquiring at the Hotel Manager's desk.

Posts: 46 | From: Houston, TX | Registered: Aug 2000 | IP: Logged

Gerry
First Class Passenger
Member # 168

posted 01-09-2001 11:27 AM

cncservo,

The slip rings I was talking about are at the azimuthing part of the pod where it joins with the hull but needs to rotate in azimuth, not in the windings. The Siemens pod does use permanent magnets on the rotor part.
Don't get any more technical though as its already stretching my technical understanding to the limit ! I am only a simple sailor after all....

Posts: 315 | From: Miami, Florida, (originally from UK) | Registered: Jun 99 | IP: Logged

Malcolm @ cruisepage
Cruise Director
Member # 301

posted 01-09-2001 03:23 PM

Wow, you guys certainly know your stuff! That will teach me to get involved in Engineering matters. I will leave it to the experts in future. Thanks for putting me right

(I did hear a rumour that Millennium was STILL experiencing vibration problems after her stern modification. However, I cannot confirm or deny this)

[This message has been edited by Malcolm (edited 01-09-2001).]

Posts: 19210 | From: Essex (Just Outside London) | Registered: A Long Time Ago! | IP: Logged

Steve Read (sread)
First Class Passenger
Member # 788

posted 01-09-2001 05:16 PM

Cncservo: Stevesan is right, their insurance won't cover you on an engine room tour. But I've managed two trips, by (a) getting to know the chief engineer and absolutely NOT going through "official" channels, and only then (b) making it clear that I know the tour's at my own risk.

There's much more to see than just the engines (though imagine a cylinder head the size of a beer barrel!). Even the laundry equipment is fascinating. And as for the (ahem) foul waste tanks.....!!

I was also fascinated to discover that ships have their own welders, turners and all sorts of "shop" people down there. So if they need a particular pipe or whatever, they can make it without having to wait for the next port.

[This message has been edited by sread (edited 01-09-2001).]

Posts: 926 | From: Locksbottom, Kent, England | Registered: Jul 99 | IP: Logged

ocngypz
First Class Passenger
Member # 1555

posted 01-10-2001 12:03 AM

Well I guess this explains why it was announced at the beginning of this week's cruise that they would be altering their itinerary. But I alwlays thought San Juan wa a stretch in the amount of time alloted.

I sure wish Celebrity and Chantiers de'Atlantique would get it together and straighten out this class asap... they are beautiful ships.

Posts: 343 | From: Newport, RI USA | Registered: Sep 2000 | IP: Logged

Mercy
First Class Passenger
Member # 322

posted 01-10-2001 09:31 AM

ocngypz... Do you know what change of itinerary they made? Which ports did they leave out? We will be going on the Eastern Caribbean itinerary on the 21st.

Posts: 697 | From: Stanwood, Wa. USA | Registered: Sep 99 | IP: Logged

starfish
First Class Passenger
Member # 986

posted 01-10-2001 09:55 AM

Mercy,I have friends going in March and was wondering the same thing.I would think Nassau might be deleted,only a guess but would make sense to me .

Posts: 225 | From: Dallas,PA | Registered: Jan 2000 | IP: Logged

ocngypz
First Class Passenger
Member # 1555

posted 01-10-2001 12:01 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Mercy:
ocngypz... Do you know what change of itinerary they made? Which ports did they leave out? We will be going on the Eastern Caribbean itinerary on the 21st.

Yes, they cut short the time in San Juan and Catalina island and cancelled the shore-excursions. She is having problems with the motor to the pods... only operating at 50% power... so.........since there are only 24 hrs in a day... The way they have the run to San Juan scheduled is a tight one under tthe best of circumstances. Since the legs of the western itinerary are shorter, they do not anticipate any problems... but obviously, the ship needs some tending to.

Posts: 343 | From: Newport, RI USA | Registered: Sep 2000 | IP: Logged

Mercy
First Class Passenger
Member # 322

posted 01-10-2001 05:45 PM

I am not happy!!!! I have a bad feeling that this will still be in effect when we cruise Jan.21! I can't believe that they shaved so many hours off the times in port!We won't get into San Juan until 5 pm! It will be dark. I guess I won't be going to the rain forest.What sort of compensation do the passengers get for missing several hours port time. If I wanted to stay on the ship, I would cruise somewhere closer to home! I am very dissapointed

Posts: 697 | From: Stanwood, Wa. USA | Registered: Sep 99 | IP: Logged

CB
First Class Passenger
Member # 58

posted 01-11-2001 03:44 PM

Unless you are only interested in the ship, this is no longer an attractive cruise. Here is the revised sched.

San Juan 5-10P was 1-8P
Catalina Isl. 11A-6P was 7A-6P
St. Thomas 9-5P was 10-6P
Nassau 1:30-7P was 11A-7P

Posts: 109 | From: Arlington, TX, USA | Registered: Mar 99 | IP: Logged

Vaccaro
First Class Passenger
Member # 465

posted 01-12-2001 12:56 PM

I must recognize I'm a bit upset there about these mechanical problems with pods (and not a design or conceptual one as several technical sources seem to agree at this time), and this for at least two reasons among others: first, because I'm really interested in all these new technical solutions and improvements (electro-technic are my first basic and short studies), secondly, several future passengers already booked (as Mercy) may be more or less affected, depending of their own expectations.
Let's hope this problem will be efficiently handled as Celebrity and Alstom/Kamewa generally use to do.
There will probably occur other troubles, exactly as any other "classic" systems aboard a ship, look at the several breakdowns, losses of power... of various ships, old or news, during the last years.

For few other very basic descriptions regarding pods systems, you can have a look to these two posts in the past year: http://www.travelserver.net/travelpage/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000926.html http://www.travelserver.net/travelpage/ubb/Forum1/HTML/001367.html

Bye.

Posts: 1193 | From: France ...where the greatest liners ever are born, ...by far! | Registered: Feb 99 | IP: Logged

Ryndam
First Class Passenger
Member # 1315

posted 01-13-2001 03:51 AM

It seems Millenium has solved some of her problems and now she's sailing with the 80% of her power; some of the itinerary has been restored but they are still planning a dry-dock for her.

Ryndam

Posts: 260 | From: Genoa (Italy) | Registered: May 2000 | IP: Logged

Vaccaro
First Class Passenger
Member # 465

posted 01-13-2001 04:44 AM

Thank you very much Ryndam for the update (and the next ones if you have before us).
Bye.

Posts: 1193 | From: France ...where the greatest liners ever are born, ...by far! | Registered: Feb 99 | IP: Logged

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