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»	Cruise Talk » Cruise Ships » Mariner fails inspection!

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Topic: Mariner fails inspection!

Malcolm @ cruisepage
Cruise Director
Member # 301

posted 08-13-2001 05:18 PM

Radisson Seven Seas Cruises’ swanky new Mariner -- the industry’s first all-suite, all-verandah ship -- flunked its most recent CDC Vessel Sanitation Program exam, racking up an 83 score (86 is passing). The low score that resulted from the inspection, which took place in Seward (Alaska) on August 1, is rather unusual for a new ship, not to mention a luxury vessel. But it reflects highly technical issues (rather than food sanitation or cleanliness problems).

According to RSSC spokesman David Kleinman, “the problem was two fold...apparently the calibrator that reads the halogen levels was not functioning properly.” Kleinman, who was attempting to convert highly complicated marine terminology into basic English, said that “halogen dispersal relates to the levels of chlorine in the water and bunkering systems.”

“The line has already taken corrective action to prevent any reoccurrence of these technical and procedural problems,” Kleinman also said, noting that Mariner officers and crew expect a reinspection very soon.

This is only Mariner’s second CDC exam; the ship scored a 92 last March when inspectors boarded in Port Canaveral.

Posts: 19210 | From: Essex (Just Outside London) | Registered: A Long Time Ago! | IP: Logged

Johan C
First Class Passenger
Member # 1201

posted 08-13-2001 05:37 PM

You see;
The age of the vessel or price level means nothing against the crew on board (on my latest cruise a lady (member of the officers staff)told me that the worst company she'd ever sailed on was RSSC

Posts: 256 | From: Ghent, historic city in Belgium | Registered: Mar 2000 | IP: Logged

Jesse C
First Class Passenger
Member # 1678

posted 08-13-2001 06:26 PM

Oh geez, if there weren't surprise inspections, wo knows what diseases passengers would get.

I stayed in a dumpy Radisson hotel in New Orleans, Louisiana. Guess the Mariner is reflective of the New Orleans hotel.

Posts: 244 | From: Houston, Texas, United States of America | Registered: Nov 2000 | IP: Logged

eroller
First Class Passenger
Member # 1649

posted 08-13-2001 07:04 PM

Radisson Seven Seas is nothing like the Radisson Hotel chain. Completely different and marketed to an entirely different cliental. They are both owned by Carlson Corp., but that is where the similarities end.

MARINER did fail the inspection, but not because the ship was un-cleanly. There were technical issues that need to be resolved as stated in an earlier post. MARINER did pass an earlier inspection after her introduction with a score of 91 I believe.

FYI, currently RSSC is probably considered the most successful "upscale" cruise line in terms of both profit and growth. They have an excellent product and it's considered one of the best out there.

Watch for RSSC to continue to grow, and possibly start up it's own mass-market cruise line in the future.

Ernie Roller,
Atlanta, GA

Posts: 7046 | From: Miami, Florida USA | Registered: Oct 2000 | IP: Logged

Marina
First Class Passenger
Member # 1664

posted 08-14-2001 02:08 AM

Not to worry, many ships have failed and a reinspection then passed, as usual minor issues were corrected. the scores are published frequently, check out the CDC website.
The score also depends on the mood of the Inspector as anyone knows who has ever been privy to an inspection. some inspectors are known as hard-liners others are softies!
a single fly in the galely could result in a markup as "infested", the calibration of the halogen recorder, does not necessarily mean that the required level of chlorine in the water was below required levels.
the USPV Vessel inspection prgramm, part of the CDC, has a training course for shipboard management. during such a seminar, an inspector admitted, that would they have the power - which they do NOT - and apply the same rigerous standards to us hotels, restaurants, that 98% would have to be closed immediately!!!
Yes, it is very good to have such an inspection system in place, but do we really need to worry when eading a vessel such as the MARINER has failed??? FOR SURE NOT!!!!

Posts: 217 | From: Miami Beach, FL.USA | Registered: Nov 2000 | IP: Logged

Montec
First Class Passenger
Member # 2210

posted 08-14-2001 04:12 AM

I just had a look on the detailed inspection report. Regarding sanitation and food production/service the crew must have done a very good job.

Inspectors comment:

"FOOD SERVICE GENERAL : THE OVERALL CLEANLINESS, PROCEDURES, AND ATTENTION TO DETAILS IN THE GALLEYS, TERRACE CAFÉ, AND BARS WERE EXCELLENT"

Posts: 25 | From: Italy | Registered: Jul 2001 | IP: Logged

Marina
First Class Passenger
Member # 1664

posted 08-14-2001 07:27 AM

Hi montec,
great, it just proves my point. The public at large, simply going by the reported score and the "failed" result, does not know, understand the whole procedure.
However, if one is really concerned, as malcolm seems to be, a little more due diligence is called for, before posting messages that do not do justice to the companies, their vessels and hard working crew.
Malcolm, are you there ????

Posts: 217 | From: Miami Beach, FL.USA | Registered: Nov 2000 | IP: Logged

joe at travelpage
Administrator
Member # 622

posted 08-14-2001 10:13 AM

Come on guys, a little tabloid journalism never hurt anyone...

Joe at TravelPage.com

Posts: 29976 | From: Great Falls, Virginia | Registered: A Long Time Ago! | IP: Logged

gohaze
First Class Passenger
Member # 586

posted 08-14-2001 11:09 AM

Come on Locarno....it doesn't matter what the exact item or items are that were not up to standard on an inspection. The fact is the ship FAILED to get the required number of points for a PASS.
Nit-picking excuses do nothing to excuse that.
Wasn't there something similar when, was it the Deutschland, also failed. There was lots of complaining about it being the Americans not knowing what they were doing etc. etc. etc.
...peter

Posts: 1909 | From: Vancouver.BC | Registered: Sep 99 | IP: Logged

Marina
First Class Passenger
Member # 1664

posted 08-14-2001 12:33 PM

Hi peter,
ahh, the Deutschland, Deilmann's pride!!
that he (or who exactly??) would say the americans...... not surprised, but as the saying goes, when in Rome do as the Romans.
Again, why did she fail?? Do you know Peter??
One should not always take things for granted, a little bit of scepsis where government agencies/authorities are involved seems rather sensible? Or do you BELIEVE everything Mr.Blair tells YOU ????
Of course they failed, knowing WHY and as Monetc has pointed out, the crew for hygiene and food handling was after all commended, should put you and those who question RSSC performance at ease.
It is sad that some are rather quick to deride owners and/or their ships.
Well as Joe says, a litle bit of...does not hurt!??

Posts: 217 | From: Miami Beach, FL.USA | Registered: Nov 2000 | IP: Logged

Malcolm @ cruisepage
Cruise Director
Member # 301

posted 08-14-2001 02:08 PM

Interesting topic! Here in the U.K Cars are inspected once a year for road worthyness, we call it the M.O.T. (Ministry of Transport - Test)

Cars often fail, but you have them put right, and they must pass before you can put them back on the highway. I'm sure that most advanced nations have a similar system.

I certainly do not feel shame if my car fails. That what the test is for, to highlight the problems!

Cruise ships can fail for a multitude of sins, such as refridgerators not being the right Tempreture or dish washes not getting hot enough - quite rightly so!

I wonder how many of our own Kitchens would pass the CDC exams?

Posts: 19210 | From: Essex (Just Outside London) | Registered: A Long Time Ago! | IP: Logged

gohaze
First Class Passenger
Member # 586

posted 08-14-2001 02:55 PM

Well, well, Locarno.
I thought the mention of the Deutschland would prompt a reply. And yes, I've read the reports for both the ships, including the remarks etc. Have you?
It doesn't matter about how good the crew cleanliness, hygiene and whatever is, if the Potable (which means drinking) Water system is suspect and it's halonization is not operating correctly. That can lead to REAL problems and is obviously why the max points were deducted for those items.
You probably don't remember it, but 30 years ago the Oronsay of P&O was held at anchor in Vancouver for a month with all the passengers on board, because of Typhoid which was caused by the PW system being contaminated by sewage.

The problems on the Deutschland were small and numerous but added up they caused her to fail...the worrying part is that on her next inspection 3 months later she still only scored 91. On Most ships there would have been a real effort to get a top score...something that certainly didn't happen on her

Apparently your geography is a little suspect, as I presume the Mr. Blair you are referring to is the Prime Minister of the UK.... Vancouver is in British Columbia which is on the West Coast of Canada, and we've had our own problems with the left wing socialists, without having to put up with him as well...which being in the EC you have to do. Good luck!!!!
...peter

Posts: 1909 | From: Vancouver.BC | Registered: Sep 99 | IP: Logged

Marina
First Class Passenger
Member # 1664

posted 08-15-2001 03:31 AM

Malcolm,
the USPH tries to inspect ship calling at us ports every six months. once you failed an inspection you have the right to request a re-inspection within 14 days after the initial/failed one. this is to clrea your ecord, so not to carry a failed score for six months or so.... by the way the inspection are not for free, they cost around $5.000 each time!!!
Peter,
sorry, I did not check your "homeport", but I was told that the english in Vancouver or B.C. thend to be more british than their bretheren at the other side of the Pond. Sorry.
mv Deutschland??? Why do you think it would result in a reponse??? She is neither a very special ship, certainly not THE Flag ship Deilmann thinks she is, nor do they offer a special cruise experience.
Yes I remember the P&O ship in Vancouver. Cross contamination is always a problem, in most cases the result of human error.
The addition of CHLORINE into drinking water is highly controversial. Several communities in the US have long ceased to do this, as it has been proven that chlotine in the water can cause cancer!!! Even the WHO is not in favour of it. However, to eliminate bacteria in PW it seems to be presently the best available solution.
Part of teh ship's physician duties is to take water samples several times a day on different locations on board the vessel. A Log is being kept and this log is also being inspected by the USPH boarding officer.
also the Chief Engineer keeps a log and has an officer assigned to check the chlorination level in the water.
The recorder - usually situated on the bridge - is all but an additional measurement device. often the calibration is off, or no more recording paper available......
As you may know the USPH Inspector also takes samples of the water (testing kit)same procedure as the earlier mentioned ship's officers do. he will not take the levels that the recorder shows for granted, right??
So honestly: losing points because of that device, resulting in failing the inspection, publishing the result and having someone interested in taking a cruise on that vessel wondering about the safety or as was the case here, making a derogatory statement agains a certain company. Justified ?? Fair ??
By the way, how is the Drakes these days????
Cheers

Posts: 217 | From: Miami Beach, FL.USA | Registered: Nov 2000 | IP: Logged

gohaze
First Class Passenger
Member # 586

posted 08-15-2001 07:00 PM

Locarno....they didn't lose 17 points for the malfunctioning of a recorder..the system wasn't working properly.

I hate to see unsubstantiated rumours put out on health matters...according to the Canadian Centre for Occupational Health & Safety there is NO EVIDENCE of chlorine causing cancer.

The bit about being more English applies to the City of Victoria which is on Vancouver Island. Lots of people find that a bit confusing. It's actually the Provincial Capital and is a city of gardens. They make a big thing about being "a little bit of Olde Englande" and it goes over great with the tourists.

Not sure about Drake? what is it.

...peter

Posts: 1909 | From: Vancouver.BC | Registered: Sep 99 | IP: Logged

Montec
First Class Passenger
Member # 2210

posted 08-16-2001 03:42 AM

Gohaze..there is no evidence of chlorine causing cancer, I agree. And locarno noted very well that "However, to eliminate bacteria in PW it seems to be presently the best available solution."
I disagree if you say that locarno is spreading unsubstantiated rumours on health matters.
Try these ones:
www.masterhealth.net/information/chlorine.htm www.internethealthlibrary.com/Environmental-Health/Chlorine-and-cancer.htm
www.cnn.com/HEALTH/9706/17/nfm/nfm.water/
www.voiceofwomen.com/articles/breastcancer.html

..or simply try your search engine with "Chlorine+cancer". I tried it and received 28800 related links.

Is there anybody spreading rumours ?

Posts: 25 | From: Italy | Registered: Jul 2001 | IP: Logged

gohaze
First Class Passenger
Member # 586

posted 08-16-2001 02:20 PM

Hi Montec...we seem to have got off the real subject, which means Locarno chucked in a good smokescreen with his cancer bit.
Anyway I had a look at your sites, which really doesn't prove anything except there's an awfull lot of garbage on the net!!!!
But do try this one before I give up on the subject...www.ping.be/~ping5859/Eng/ChlorineCancer.html

....peter

Posts: 1909 | From: Vancouver.BC | Registered: Sep 99 | IP: Logged

Marina
First Class Passenger
Member # 1664

posted 08-17-2001 02:29 AM

Peter,
I did not start a "smokescreen" - questions which have been raised related to water treatment in general. Take 10 highly respected scientists and chances are you'll get as many opinions what is and what is not the cause.
As for Canadian authorities?? Please forgive me. Vessel Sanitation inespctions in Vancouver last 20 minutes, one inspector sintead of 2 or 3 in the US and several hours.. Once our ship was cited for not having a cover on a garbage can. that was all. Could be that Canada trusted the US to do the work for them??????
In closing: YES INSPECTIONS ARE VERY GOOD, but please don't get too uptight when you hear a vessel ahs failed!!! Especially where a reputable shipping company is involved, such as Radisson Seven seas happens to be one.

Posts: 217 | From: Miami Beach, FL.USA | Registered: Nov 2000 | IP: Logged

Malcolm @ cruisepage
Cruise Director
Member # 301

posted 08-17-2001 11:02 AM

Most (all?) cruise lines/ships will fail the inspections, sooner or later.

To me the important thing is that the faults are quickly rectified!

Posts: 19210 | From: Essex (Just Outside London) | Registered: A Long Time Ago! | IP: Logged

gohaze
First Class Passenger
Member # 586

posted 08-18-2001 02:19 PM

Locarno....it's still a smokescreen. One never knows when you start a survey/inspection what you are going to find or how long it will take. Even so,20 minutes is an unnecessary exaggeration..it would take that long to find the person responsible and start looking at the paperwork!!!
And FYI Port Health as it was known has been inspecting all ships, not just passenger, in Vancouver for over 40 years to my knowledge. I've encountered them on numerous occasions and I've never witnessed the flippant behaviour you claim.
I read recently that the Brits are going to bring in legislation to enable them to board any vessel without having to be invited.!!!!

As for Safety, the first vessel I stopped under Reg.19 of Solas was 35 years ago. The boats were rotten and most of the equipment non existant, BUT she had a brand new Certificate issued by the Coast Guard. That was the first time in Canada and it has been followed by many many more.
One thing, never argue with a Certificate...admire it as a very nice piece of paper, and then require that the ship comply with it's requirements..quite simple really.
...peter

Posts: 1909 | From: Vancouver.BC | Registered: Sep 99 | IP: Logged

Montec
First Class Passenger
Member # 2210

posted 08-24-2001 04:32 PM

Just wanted to inform you that I heard that Radisson Seven Seas passed a few days ago the re-inspection with 100(!)points.
Who else but me would like to congratulate ?

Posts: 25 | From: Italy | Registered: Jul 2001 | IP: Logged

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