Cruise Talk: You get the officers you pay for

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Topic: You get the officers you pay for

origo
First Class Passenger
Member # 1852

posted 11-08-2001 01:18 PM

I dont think that passengers in general realase how big the diffrences are in skills and attitude against safety and enviromental amounts bridge and engine officers in the diffrent companies. It's VERY big. So why do some cruise companies chose to use something else than the best officers. Well it's simple, they are mutch cheeper. Let me give an example. A 1st officer ( officer in charge of a navigational watch) in Star Cruise makes about 7000 USD / Month. He works 10 weeks and is free 10. A 1st Officer in RCCL makes about 6000 USD and works 3 month and are free 3 month. But a 1st Officer in Carnival makes only 3900 USD / Month, he works 6 month and is free 2.
So, who wants to work for Carival if he has an opportunity to work for Star or RCCL? Well, very few, the only reason that they don't work for those companies are because they don't hire them.
If you want to travell safely, check witch nationality the marine officers are. I don't say that all Italian or Greek officers are bad but, in gereral are Scandinavian, Brittish or Dutch officer safer.

Posts: 40 | From: Stockholm, Sweden | Registered: Mar 2001 | IP: Logged

Werner
First Class Passenger
Member # 1946

posted 11-09-2001 01:22 AM

Probably the officers from Sweden are the best.
Werner

Posts: 35 | From: Switzerland | Registered: Apr 2001 | IP: Logged

cruisemole
First Class Passenger
Member # 2459

posted 11-09-2001 04:24 AM

Nonsense, competence has NOTHING to do with nationality and everything to do with experience & personal ability.

& Where did you get your figures from ?

Posts: 343 | From: dear ol'blighty | Registered: Sep 2001 | IP: Logged

recab
First Class Passenger
Member # 1677

posted 11-09-2001 04:30 AM

quote:
Originally posted by origo:
...If you want to travell safely, check witch nationality the marine officers are. I don't say that all Italian or Greek officers are bad but, in gereral are Scandinavian, Brittish or Dutch officer safer.[/QB]

De va f-n vad Du vagar sticka ut hakan! Vem jobbar Du for?

Posts: 730 | From: Aland, Finland | Registered: Nov 2000 | IP: Logged

gohaze
First Class Passenger
Member # 586

posted 11-09-2001 08:23 AM

Sorry to disagree cruisemole, but having worked and dealt with officers of many many different nationalities over many years, the country of origin DOES have an effect.
Origo's tieing it to pay is only a small factor of course, but it helps.
The biggest problem to my mind is language skills, or the lack of them, with these multi-national crews.
There a still a few ships left where the majority of the crew come from the same place - not like the old days when Greek crews used to come from the same village on the same Island perhaps - but it is noticeable in many small ways. And they add up to a good and efficient crew, which is what is needed for safety.
...peter

Posts: 1909 | From: Vancouver.BC | Registered: Sep 99 | IP: Logged

Ryndam
First Class Passenger
Member # 1315

posted 11-09-2001 04:41 PM

It's so sad for me to hear such words from a colleague. On board ships there is a very strong form of nationalism and officers are using coarse words when referring to officers of other nationality. During my last contract on the Sun Princess the other officers (starting from the Master) were calling the HAL ships "sh...ty Dutch". This was making me furious even if I know that people of other nationality are doing the same; I sometimes argued about this even with the Captain and I was calling them "our Dutch friends". Then there are also a lot of false stereotypes; for instance some Italian officers asked me if the Dutch were always drunk on board. I personally love working with officers from others country and this is one of the reason why I left Carnival for Princess (where there are both English and Italians, but I really can't describe what they are thinking of each another). My first experience with Holland America has been wonderful and working together with Dutch officers helped me a lot with my career. I think there are good and bad officers from all countries: accidents have involves officers from Italy (Celebration collision, Star Princess grounding, etc.), Scandinavia (Monarch of the Seas grounding, Norwegian Sky list, etc.), Greece (Royal Majestic grounding, Oceanos sinking, etc.), British (Exxon Valdez grounding, etc.) so I don't think there is a nationality of superofficers.

Ryndam

Posts: 260 | From: Genoa (Italy) | Registered: May 2000 | IP: Logged

desirod7
First Class Passenger
Member # 1626

posted 11-09-2001 08:54 PM

Origo,

Dont act like a Swedish meatball

You sound like Barryboat, who took quite a hammering for his bigotry.

However no else can make you look as ridiculous as you have yourself.

Most of the people on this board are from many different countries, age groups, ethnicities, and sexual orientations.

Regardless, cruising is the safest way to travel by far.

Posts: 5727 | From: Philadelphia, Pa [home of the SS United States] | Registered: Oct 2000 | IP: Logged

Marina
First Class Passenger
Member # 1664

posted 11-10-2001 03:08 AM

Origo,
sounds like you are with Seaman's Union, who is using those silly arguments in order to keep on "working"!!??
Regardless of the skill level and department onboard a ship, the moment you have only one nationality onboard, they tend to look down upon others. Mix nationalities however - if indeed they can communicate adequately - in the long runs seem to work best. Safety, professionalism of the crew hinges on the quality of shoreside management and onboard. If a master and Chief engineer take thei responsibilities seriously then their subordinates will perform well.
Carnival as done very well with the Italian officers, with many of them having made a great career for themselves, moving up the ladder as the fleet grew.
By the way, the days that Royal Caribbean only hired Norwegian is long gone. Greeks, British and other nationalities are employed.
As for teh salaries you mentioned: where in the hell did you get those from ???
maybe you ahd a bit toooooooo much of the good stuff ABSOLUT ????
SKOL

Posts: 217 | From: Miami Beach, FL.USA | Registered: Nov 2000 | IP: Logged

fondaenergy
First Class Passenger
Member # 1641

posted 11-10-2001 05:59 AM

On our 15 cruises (soon to be 16), I have always seen highly competent and professional conduct on the part of the navigation staff. This is regardless of their national origin or sexual orientation.

To suggest otherwise is ridiculous.

Posts: 177 | From: Jacksonville, FL | Registered: Oct 2000 | IP: Logged

philcheese2001
First Class Passenger
Member # 2426

posted 11-11-2001 10:13 AM

Origo,
You equate salary and nationality with competence, wrong! The highest paid officer in the British Mercantile Marine, at that time, rammed TITANIC into an iceberg, and presumably the language of the whole crew was English. Who took the ESTONIA to sea with a faulty bow visor ? The antics of the master of EXON VALDEZ are well documented, his behaviour threatened the ecology of a whole area. His nationality ? NOT Italian or Greek.
Human error can transcend all pay scales and nationalities. Take good care next time you cross a road, you may be a victim of your own arrogance. Your bigotry I find offensive.

Posts: 181 | From: Liverpool,European Capital of Culture 2008 | Registered: Sep 2001 | IP: Logged

gohaze
First Class Passenger
Member # 586

posted 11-11-2001 12:04 PM

Aw come on...the Titanic didn't RAM the iceberg, if she had she'd probably have survived. She altered at the last minute and almost missed it but it opened her up down one side which flooded several compartments instead of maybe only a couple if it had been head on.

The Estonia was an amazing story of incompetence by a lot of people compounding to a disaster. The Classification Societies knew about the problems before the ship was built, and the one most involved was just plain negligent in it's duties due to conflict of interest.

origo's attitude is quite common at sea and is not particularly arrogant or for that matter, offensive.
...peter

Posts: 1909 | From: Vancouver.BC | Registered: Sep 99 | IP: Logged

Frank X. Prudent
First Class Passenger
Member # 1723

posted 11-12-2001 01:30 AM

quote:
Originally posted by fondaenergy:
I have always seen highly competent and professional conduct on the part of the navigation staff. This is regardless of their national origin or sexual orientation.

Thank you, Fondaenergy. Need anyone say anymore!

Posts: 577 | From: Covington, Kentucky, U.S.A. | Registered: Dec 2000 | IP: Logged

bothak
Just Boarded
Member # 2617

posted 11-28-2001 01:48 PM

It is good to read how much 1st officers make on all cruise lines, but I think Rijndam worded all the best, that's why he was the best Italian ever worked on a dutch ship.

Posts: 2 | From: Alaska | Registered: Nov 2001 | IP: Logged

Malcolm @ cruisepage
Cruise Director
Member # 301

posted 11-28-2001 06:50 PM

quote:
Originally posted by origo:
A 1st officer ( officer in charge of a navigational watch) in Star Cruise makes about 7000 USD / Month.

Wow...here in the U.K. we don't pay Tony Blair much more than that!

Posts: 19210 | From: Essex (Just Outside London) | Registered: A Long Time Ago! | IP: Logged

Grant
First Class Passenger
Member # 1000

posted 11-29-2001 09:14 PM

I will add my few cents worth! Over the years I have travelled aboard vessels with crews from many countries, and have been aboard 2 sailings that experienced minor fires (Italian officers on one, British on the other). In all circumstances, the crews did their jobs very well. Cruise companies today have Billions of dollars invested in their ships. To employee those of questionable abilities could be disasterous to their financial well being. I tend to think that those that can't do the job properly are soon forced down the gang plank for good, regardless of nationality or payment received. Why should an officer on one ship get paid the same as an officer on a ship with officers from another country? I do know that airline crew do not all get paid the same amount, in fact there is an incredible difference in salary levels between airlines from differecnt countries.

Posts: 834 | From: Victoria, BC, Canada | Registered: Jan 2000 | IP: Logged

Ryndam
First Class Passenger
Member # 1315

posted 12-07-2001 10:31 PM

Thank you very much Bothak (even if I think I was the only Italian to work on a Dutch ship, so it was not difficult to be the best one). I'm now on the Pacific Sky; the Master, me and the other 3rd Officer are Italian, the first Officer is Canadian and all the other officers are British. The ship is running perfectly and there is a wonderful and friendly environment on board.

Ryndam

Posts: 260 | From: Genoa (Italy) | Registered: May 2000 | IP: Logged

barr xx
First Class Passenger
Member # 2537

posted 12-11-2001 11:35 AM

And here I thought it was only soccer fans that didn't like people from other countrys, just because they weren't from the same country as themselves. I guess prejudice lives everywhere, even at sea.

Steve

Posts: 17 | From: No. California | Registered: Oct 2001 | IP: Logged

Dolphins
First Class Passenger
Member # 2043

posted 12-16-2001 08:36 PM

I cannot speak for other nationalities, but I have always been impressed with the efficiency and competence of the Dutch officers on HAL ships. They seem to check the engines and equipment on all lifeboats frequently and as a retired fire officer, I had to admire a fire drill they conducted on the Volendam where a female officer in full bunker gear and breathing apparatus performed her assigned tasks flawlessly. In an emergency, I have full confidence in HAL officers.

Posts: 324 | From: Commack, New York | Registered: May 2001 | IP: Logged

Dawn5
Just Boarded
Member # 2654

posted 12-20-2001 07:52 PM

Information on Carnival officers is wrong. I have a friend who is a 1st officer with Carnival and he makes $4500 usd a month and he works 4 months with 2 months off.

Posts: 2 | From: Michigan | Registered: Dec 2001 | IP: Logged

colt
First Class Passenger
Member # 1215

posted 12-24-2001 05:26 PM

quote:
Originally posted by origo:
... A 1st officer ( officer in charge of a navigational watch) in Star Cruise makes about 7000 USD / Month. He works 10 weeks and is free 10. A 1st Officer in RCCL makes about 6000 USD and works 3 month and are free 3 month. But a 1st Officer in Carnival makes only 3900 USD / Month, he works 6 month and is free 2.

I must ask: Are they paid that amount per month only when they are working?

Posts: 293 | From: Lisbon, Maryland, USA | Registered: Apr 2000 | IP: Logged

Jkm7
First Class Passenger
Member # 1352

posted 12-27-2001 06:10 PM

That is a good question re: pay. I would imagine they are paid the same amount for months worked and for their off time. Do they sign 12 month contracts?

Posts: 37 | From: USA | Registered: Jun 2000 | IP: Logged

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