The is only one word for the Voyager Class... spectacular! They are designed so well that rarely did I ever encounter a crowd. The parades (which are quite fun BTW) are about the only time I saw masses of people. Unfortunately, I can't say the same thing about GOLDEN which has many design deficiencies, not to mention that Princess turns their atriums into "grand bazaars" selling crap throughout the day and causing even more bottlenecks. GOLDEN / GRAND also has lots of cheap artwork strewn throughout the ship for sale... also adding to the clutter.

Princess is truly the "nickel and dime" cruise line and you will be bombarded at every opportunity to buy something. Orange juice after breakfast... be ready to pay for it. Premium ice cream, same thing. Every day in my cabin I was bombarded with 3-6 leaflets all trying to sell something.

Of course on RCI you will also be enticed to spend money, but it is done with a little more subtlety. Plus, onboard VOYAGER you will have the opportunity to partake in many activities only offered on these class of ships... ice skating, rock climbing, inline stating, miniature golf, and much more. As mentioned earlier, there is even a Johnny Rockets onboard which is a great place for lunch... all at NO additional charge except for milkshakes. As for evening entertainment... don't miss the spectacular ice skating shows, they are truly something and probably the best shipboard show I have seen in 50+ cruises on any cruise line. There are parades as I mentioned above as well. They sound a little corny, but in reality they are a lot of fun and extremely well executed.

As you can tell, I am a big fan of the Voyager Class ships. They are truly something unique... where the Grand Class is just more of the same, and not even as good as the ships that preceded them.

This is not to say you would not have a great time on GRAND PRINCESS... you will, but given the choice there is truly no comparison with the Voyager Class.

Unfortunately, be prepared to pay a premium to sail on the Voyager Class. They are VERY popular ships and they get the highest per-diems in the Caribbean except for Disney. If you decide to sail on GRAND PRINCESS... it will be much cheaper, in fact, most times I've checked the rates are cheaper then Carnival. Of course you get what you pay for.

Good luck with your decision.

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Originally posted by CGT:
Grand of course, because I want to sail on a ship NOT some floating shopping mall/theme park comeplete with shopping mall chain restaurants (Johnny Rockets).

CGT

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You consider the ungainly GRAND PRINCESS monstrosity with the shopping cart handle a "true" ship, and not the much more streamlined and attractive VOYAGER OF THE SEAS?

I don't understand your rationale?

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Originally posted by eroller:

You consider the ungainly GRAND PRINCESS monstrosity with the shopping cart handle
Ernie

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Ernie,

Maybe the shopping cart handle is a subliminal message to buy stuff, after all you mentioned the 'Bazaar' aspect of the Golden Princess.

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Originally posted by desirod7:

Ernie,

Maybe the shopping cart handle is a subliminal message to buy stuff, after all you mentioned the 'Bazaar' aspect of the Golden Princess.

Not a fan of modern cruiseboxes, but I have heard that the RCL ships have little connection to the sea, where the Princess ships do.

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As far as the connection to the sea, well if you want that then I would suggest something other than either of these ships. Both are big, and offer about an equal "connection to the sea" as far as I'm concerned. I certainly didn't "feel" like I was *more* on a ship on GRAND over VOYAGER. Both are big hotels on the sea and resemble little having to do with a ship.

For the sea connection, I might suggest the NORWAY or QE2... or even one of the smaller new ships... but not GRAND or VOYAGER. If you like windows, then RCI's RADIANCE Class are the best. I don't think there is a ship afloat that offers more vistas to the sea through giant windows at every turn.

Ernie

[ 04-22-2003: Message edited by: eroller ]

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Originally posted by eroller:
If you like windows, then RCI's RADIANCE Class are the best. I don't think there is a ship afloat that offers more vistas to the sea through giant windows at every turn. ]

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Spot on, Ernie. Brilliance of the Seas had more connection with the sea than some older ships, one third the size.

You don't understand my rationale? DUDE, the ship has a SHOPPING MALL at the CENTER OF IT!!!! JOHNNY FRICKEN ROCKETS? Come on!?!? I can't believe you say you like this ship when you complain that the chairs on the newly redesigned Carnival Celebration in the dining room look like they belong in a cafeteria!!! You like Celebrity for it's "class and style", yet you like the Voyager ships? Johnny Rockets is a shopping mall chain restaurant!!! HOW TACKY!!! Those ships exhibit a crassness almost equal to Carnival. I mean, I could go spend time in an indoor shopping mall and feel like I'm on one of the "Voyager" ships. I don't understand how you reconcile your love of "detail" and "style" and "class" with the Voyager ships.

Ice Skating Rinks at sea? Rock Climbing? Inline Skating? Parades? RIDICULOUS!!!

Oh God, to quote someone from another board, you will not find me aboard any RCI Voyager class ship unless they are picking people out of lifeboats!!

Yes Princess does some cheesy things, what with the atrium shopping bazaar, and I hate the shopping cart handle, but at least it's still a ship and like I said, not some floating shopping mall/theme park on the water!!!

I STILL can't get over the absolute ludicrousness of putting an ice skating rink on a ship. It's' just so STUPID.

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Originally posted by CGT:
I don't understand your rationale?

You don't understand my rationale? DUDE, the ship has a SHOPPING MALL at the CENTER OF IT!!!! JOHNNY FRICKEN ROCKETS? Come on!?!? I can't believe you say you like this ship when you complain that the chairs on the newly redesigned Carnival Celebration in the dining room look like they belong in a cafeteria!!!

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Have you *actually* sailed on a Voyager Class ship?

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Originally posted by Dolphins:
Is it possible that the new Queen Mary 2 will put both those ships in her shadow?

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I know the Voyager-class and QM2 are going to be the smae height, but the QM2 will be longer.

[ 04-22-2003: Message edited by: Keitaro ]

I also like the idea of one big main dining room, which was beautiful on Voyager and 3 decks high. Where as on Grand we had dinner in one of the 2 or 3 main dining rooms that didn't look special at all.

On Grand it took a little longer to find your way around and I would often times find myself walking through a Southwestern Cafe on the ship without even realizing it. Whereas on Voyager it was alot easier to find your way around.

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Originally posted by CGT:
I don't understand how you reconcile your love of "detail" and "style" and "class" with the Voyager ships.

Ice Skating Rinks at sea? Rock Climbing? Inline Skating? Parades? RIDICULOUS!!!

Yes Princess does some cheesy things, what with the atrium shopping bazaar, and I hate the shopping cart handle, but at least it's still a ship and like I said, not some floating shopping mall/theme park on the water!!!

I STILL can't get over the absolute ludicrousness of putting an ice skating rink on a ship. It's' just so STUPID.

CGT

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Originally posted by petede:
The ships left today are all CRUISE ships, floating vacation destinations. With that in mind the Voyager is the greatest cruise ships, the latest in a long trend started with the Carnival Destiny the over 100,000 ton class. You may not like the Voyager class, but as a cruise ship, (in which the Grand is one also)the Voyager class is the ultimate, far surpassing the Grand in every way.

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EXACTLY.

I frankly don't remember if I opted out of this thread before or if my posts just disappeared, but having been on both GRAND PRINCESS and VOYAGER OF THE SEAS, VOYAGER is far superior as a cruise ship. Neither one is really to my personal taste in ships, but for what she is VOYAGER is truly outstanding.

I find it quite funny that the apparent reason for certain people's vehement dislike of VOYAGER is "tradition". From a very rudimentary standpoint, she is less traditional than the ships that came before, but by this logic, we had all ought to be going round in dug-out canoes, or rafts, or whatever the first waterborne craft were. Heck, whoever first took to the seas must have been breaking a tradition too!

The great ocean liners that to us are classics were just as repulsive to a whole generation of people when THEY were new. In the 1930s the traditionalists hated NORMANDIE, because she was too big, too gaudy, to modern, and so on. Of course today we sweep the reaction to the ship THEN under the rug, in order to glorify her. But I do not think it is far-fetched to draw the analogy of GRAND PRINCESS as QUEEN MARY, and VOYAGER as NORMANDIE. Of course GRAND PRINCESS is no QUEEN MARY, and VOYAGER is arguably not up to NORMANDIE caliber either, though the ship enthusiasts of 2075 think about them (if there are ship enthusiasts in 2075) is a whole different matter.

quote:

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Originally posted by CGT:
I don't understand your rationale?

I STILL can't get over the absolute ludicrousness of putting an ice skating rink on a ship. It's' just so STUPID.

CGT

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Originally posted by Luv2sail:
I have also sailed on both ships and to be honest I enjoyed the GRAND better!
Both ships have a lot to offer. I have to admit we had terrible restaurant service on the Voyager and the food was poor.

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Well now you're talking about something different... The overall product, not the ship.

I still think that VOYAGER, as a cruise ship, is vastly superior to GRAND, but as many of you have probably read several times , I found the food service to be (typically) very mediocre. Not that it was anything great on Princess, but VOYAGER's ranged from acceptable to, well, unacceptable... And it DID range... On average it was adequate, nothing more, but occasionally quite good, and occasionally nauseating.

IMHO this is not an isolated incident, not too much earlier we were on MAJESTY OF THE SEAS and the food and service on that ship (service on VOYAGER was OK - rather hurried and impersonal/"programmed", but what do you expect of a ship this size?) was positively AWFUL... VOYAGER was somewhat better but I still have a bad taste in my mouth (literally ) from that cruise. The majority of the stuff we ate (or attempted to eat) was frankly repulsive; even the simplest things they managed to screw up... The majority of it was totally unidentifiable. I shall never forget a buffet lunch where the prime entree was something that I initially thought was lasagne, it turned out to be some thinly sliced colorless fish which managed to be soggy, sticky, pasty, and dry all at once, in a thin reddish sauce that I was told was curry but which bore no taste whatsoever, not to mention that the color was totally uncharacteristic of curry. This particular dish was part of THE WORST excuse for a lunch buffet that I can honestly imagine (short of nothing at all, or food laced with arsenic!). First up were hamburgers that, in the words of a fellow passenger, tasted like they were "made by Goodyear", all of which were covered in that awful orange "processed dairy product" stuff that is often passed off as cheese... The answer when asked if a plain hamburger could be had, was a curt, "no!" I passed, but most others didn't, at least not until they found out that there were no rolls. I moved on, and found soup... Black bean soup, which sounded pleasant enough, though hot soup in the Caribbean is generally not the most appealing thing... The problem was, it was so congealed that the only use I could think of for it might be as an environmentally-friendly alternative to cement. Moving on to the entrees, we found only the above-mentioned fish concoction, with no choice of anything else at all... They did thankfully have bread rolls (which incidentally USED to be very good on RCI, and indeed WERE, surprisingly, on this ship, but were found to be totally ordinary on VOYAGER)... And then on to dessert. There was fruit... Only it was not ripe, and indeed might have been not fruit either ... The other alternative was what I took for a brownie, but which turned out to be a square of very synthetic-tasting substance which in texture was a cross between a mousse and a gelatin... It LOOKED fine, but in texture and taste was truly unappetizing... And that was it... What I have described was the ENTIRE scope of their lunch buffet... I know because like everyone else I went round the whole buffet area looking for something different... But the "pasta/carving/taco" etc. stations were shuttered, and the buffets turned up nothing but more of the same, awful stuff.

Of course this is (I hope!) a "worst case scenario" but it was still pretty awful and I think of this "lunch" every time someone mentions RCI's food. On VOYAGER as I said it was marginally better... Some of the stuff in the dining room actually seemed to have the taste and texture of the item described on the menu... Note I say SOME, not ALL, but most of it was edible and vaguely reminiscent of the elaborate menu description, and on occasion something was found that was even quite good. Breakfast and lunches were still WAY below what they had ought to be... We tried every possible venue for breakfast, and in NONE of them could a decent omlette or scrambled eggs be found. They offered them, all right, but they were terrible, with a styrofoam-like texture and a flavor that I imagine has to be pretty close to that of styrofoam too. Worse, they all came swimming in a vast sea of cooking oil! By the third or fourth day of the cruise I didn't even bother to touch anything beyond cold cereal... We attempted fruit, but again, it was not ripe! Lunch was not too great either, as EVERYTHING seemed to consist of a concoction of ground beef, drowing in a watery, reddish, ostensibly tomato-based fluid, with small soggy bits of carrot throughout. This odd substance was the real staple of the lunch menu, masquerading as sandwich filling, taco filling, chili con carne, and (when watered down) minestrone soup to name a few! Luckily with a bit of detective work one could find SOMETHING that did not trace its origins to this stuff... But lunch was the worst meal of the day, because at breakfast at least there was cereal! We wound up eating lunch most of the time at the so-called Cafe Promenade, an imiation sidewalk cafe on the much-vaunted Royal Promenade... It was a pleasant enough venue, but more importantly, it contained a real treasure: SANDWICHES. Not very good ones, mind you, but far preferable to the alternatives offered in the dining room and buffet (both had the same menu, and the food itself was identical too). These were of a size that might be OK for tea sandwiches, little more... And they only came in two varieties per day... The tuna salad and egg salad were quite passable, but another day the choices were turkey (it tasted more like wet paper towel) and salmon salad (just plain awful). What's more, these were as I say tiny little sandwiches, and apparently my initial reaction (tea sandwiches) was not far off... Apparently the food at the Cafe Promenade is intended for GRAZING, not eating! The size of these little things could not have been more than a quarter of a normal (i.e. two pieces of standard-sized sliced bread) sandwich, however taking even TWO at a time was strictly prohibited by the "sandwich Nazi" behind the counter. It was strictly ONE AT A TIME, which meant much more time was spent standing on line for an audience with the surly counter attendant than actually eating the meager results of such a trip. People who joke about starving on cruises had ought to have been there. OK, in all fairness you could have as much of the reddish meat-based stuff up at the buffet as you wanted, whenever you wanted; but in that case there was a built in deterrent - it was so unappetizing, nobody WOULD want it!

So in summary, a big THUMBS DOWN to the food people at RCI... I may have just had two consecutive negative experiences (in the case of the first, a truly BAD experience - had it not been only a three-day cruise it could have turned into a great weight-loss opportunity!), but *I* certainly have no longings for any of the stuff turned out by the production-line galleys on these ships! VOYAGER is a fantastic ship, and most of her passengers seem to be more than pleased with the experience, but you NEED a fantastic ship in order to forget about the mediocre food and indifferent (though efficient) service!

Anyhow, I know I'm known for my long posts, and this has got to be one of the longest... And most boring... But that's the truth about how *I* found RCI's food service!

[ 05-29-2003: Message edited by: cruiseny ]

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Originally posted by seatrial:
By the way, some of the dining room staff on the Navigator back in March seemed to have word that at the "last minute" Mariner is going to be rated as larger than QM2. I doubt this is true, but who knows. A friend just got of Navigator last week. She knows nothing about ships, but told me that her waiter told their table that RCI is going to out do the QM2 with the Mariner. We'll see.

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This was the same rumor with NAVIGATOR. As far as I know, no changes are planned from NAVIGATOR to MARINER, so she will not be larger then QM2.

Now there may be a mega-Voyager Class that comes after MARINER. This would certainly eclipse QM2. Keep your eyes and ears peeled!

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Originally posted by seatrial:
I plan to sail on Mariner in December, but I must say Radiance is still my favorite RCI ship. By the way, some of the dining room staff on the Navigator back in March seemed to have word that at the "last minute" Mariner is going to be rated as larger than QM2. I doubt this is true, but who knows. A friend just got of Navigator last week. She knows nothing about ships, but told me that her waiter told their table that RCI is going to out do the QM2 with the Mariner. We'll see.

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