Big sisters for QE2

Cunard, whose flagship the QE2 celebrated its 30th birthday on Wednesday, has announced plans for a second new ship.

The company, which is already working on "Project Queen Mary", says another new vessel could be built by 2005.

The second ship was likely to be known as the Queen Victoria.

Cunard president Larry Pimentel said a decision on which European shipyard would build the new 100,000-tonne Queen Mary (QM2) was expected this summer.

'Option for a second ship'

Speaking at the QE2's 30th birthday party in Southampton, Mr Pimentel said: "We will put in an order for a new vessel as part of the Queen Mary project and also an option for a second vessel.

"It would be fantastic to see these two ships crossing each other in the Atlantic."

More than 300 guests on board the QE2 watched as the vessel's two captains cut a birthday cake watched by all the surviving QE2 captains.

The party coincided with the announcement of a £19.5m refit for the 70,000-tonne ship to be carried out in November.

The Southampton-based ship repair and conversion company A&P is competing with two German yards for the lucrative contract.

Bad memories of 1994 refit

One of the German firms, Blohm and Voss of Hamburg, will have to shake off the stigma of the last major refit in 1994.

The vessel set sail for New York with scores of workmen still aboard trying to finish jobs.

Cunard eventually had to pay out millions of pounds in compensation to passengers who complained of bad conditions on board.

The company said on Wednesday that sub-contractors were to blame for the 1994 episode, rather than Blohm and Voss.

A&P carried out a successful £12m QE2 refit in 1996.

The third company in the running is Bremerhaven's Lloyd Werft.

Swedish facelift

A Swedish design firm, Tilber, has been appointed to oversee the latest facelift.

The refit will include refurbishment of all suites and cabins, enhancement of passenger areas and a new look for the restaurant and dining areas.

Cunard president Larry Pimentel said: "This magnificent vessel, certainly the most famous ship afloat, will sail into the millennium with new vigour, displaying interiors that will express her stately grandeur in totally British terms."

The vessel was launched on Clydeside in 1967 by Queen Elizabeth II, who it is named after.

Its maiden voyage, from Southampton to New York, came in 1969.

Flag of convenience row

Mr Pimentel is due to meet Deputy Prime Minister John Prescott on Thursday to discuss shipping issues.

Mr Prescott, a former ship's steward, will seek clarification over whether the QM2 will sail under the British flag.

Mr Pimentel said last year the £300m superliner was unlikely to fly the red ensign unless British shipping unions made significant concessions on pay and conditions.

Mr Pimentel said on Wednesday: "Mr Prescott has been extremely co-operative and very friendly. He has a passion for seeing more British vessels sailing and we will have a very honest and very candid discussion."

[ 12-28-2003: Message edited by: CGT ]

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Originally posted by CGT:
Why was there even any speculation about the name of the QV? It was QUEEN VICTORIA from the get go.

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Originally posted by cruiseny:

Well, not exactly.

This article only says that it's "likely" (news-speak for "rumored") and besides that it seems to me to be talking about a sister to QM2, which QV is not.

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She's not in our eyes, but in the eyes of Cunard and Carnival executives, I think she is (a sister to QM2).

[ 12-28-2003: Message edited by: CGT ]

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Originally posted by CGT:
in the eyes of Cunard and Carnival executives, I think she is (a sister to QM2).

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Originally posted by cruiseny:

I think they do want QM2 to take over QE2's position as "the most famous ship in the world" but at the same time they're hoping that some of the QM2/QE2 prestige will wear off on QV (obviously why they chose a QUEEN name for a ship that really doesn't deserve it).

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Whether or not QV deserves a Queen name is for Cunard to decide. It's their ship.

[ 12-28-2003: Message edited by: ScottQE2 ]

Just curious, is it still possible to see a 2nd QM2 or QV?

[ 12-28-2003: Message edited by: Keitaro ]

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Originally posted by Keitaro:
I think the decision to use a Vista-class ship was made after the Carnival take-over.

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I guess Cunard/Carnival decided to use that extra millions from the "Queen Victoria project" to build a better QM2

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is it still possible to see a 2nd QM2 or QV?

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As for QV's interiors, I'll be very interested to see the outcome, especially as I've been told that her designers will not have very much flexibility, and that certain materials, furniture, etc. ordered by HAL (amazing that they order so far ahead of time!) will actually be incorporated into her decor as a cost-saving measure. If this is true, the outcome could look like a cross between QM2 and ZUIDERDAM, which should be interesting to say the least...

[ 12-29-2003: Message edited by: cruiseny ]

Yes, quite simply, Carnival wanted to buy the ‘brand name’ not two aging vessels. Cunard had no future business plan until Carnival decided to invest in two new vessels for them.

A SECOND QM2??? We've only just got the first one! A second QM2 is very unlikely, the Jumbo Jet still rules and transatlantic's ship travel is still a niche market. I still think Cunard may struggle to fill all of those QM2 cabins from season two, anyway.

The assembly-line can of course easily produce more vista class ships.

Personally, I wonder where P&O fits into all this? They seem to opperate within the same market? You would think that the QM2 would draw business away from P&O, as will QV, being in direct competition with the P&O fleet cruising return trips fron Southampton during the summer.

[ 12-29-2003: Message edited by: Malcolm @ cruisepage ]

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Originally posted by ScottQE2:
...I would like to think that those of us here on CT will not be raked into it.

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I understand what you mean. However, most QV passengers will make their decision based on price and itinerary. The cruising public will not be concerned, or understand, the finer points of vista class ships.

The one and two week round trip cruises from Southampton, to the Norwegian Fjords, the Baltic and the Mediterranean are very popular with the over fifties (no flying). Ships offering a British style of cruising are also in high demand. The only real choice will be between Cunard, P&O or Fred Olsen.

Fricken' Carnival.

[ 12-29-2003: Message edited by: CGT ]

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Originally posted by CGT:
I've been told that her designers will not have very much flexibility, and that certain materials, furniture, etc. ordered by HAL (amazing that they order so far ahead of time!) will actually be incorporated into her decor as a cost-saving measure.

Fricken' Carnival.

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Actually, I've been told by someone that is actually deeply involved in the projet that her interiors are being designed by a completely independent and different design team from HAL and that the rumors that she will be HAL-like and her decor limited due to cost constraints are untrue and unfounded. The layout and decor of the public rooms will be very different.

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Originally posted by joe at travelpage:

Actually, I've been told by someone that is actually deeply involved in the projet that her interiors are being designed by a completely independent and different design team from HAL and that the rumors that she will be HAL-like and her decor limited due to cost constraints are untrue and unfounded. The layout and decor of the public rooms will be very different.

Joe at TravelPage.com

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Originally posted by Malcolm @ cruisepage:
Personally, I wonder where P&O fits into all this? They seem to opperate within the same market? You would think that the QM2 would draw business away from P&O, as will QV, being in direct competition with the P&O fleet cruising return trips fron Southampton during the summer.

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Originally posted by joe at travelpage:
I've been told by someone that is actually deeply involved in the projet that her interiors are being designed by a completely independent and different design team from HAL and that the rumors that she will be HAL-like and her decor limited due to cost constraints are untrue and unfounded.

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Hmm...I’m not sure that the cruising public generally regards Cunard as more up-scale than P&O, unless you are in a Cunard duplex suite, dining grill class!

The itineraries offered from Southampton (return) are likely to be similar, the fares have always been similar in the past and the overall ‘British’ experience may well continue to be similar?

Taking out the QE2 from the equation for a moment; when Cunard is solely operating two new ships, P&O arguably offers slightly more in the way of tradition with Aurora and Oriana, than Cunard’s latest brand of pseudo-tradition.

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Originally posted by cruiseny:

Well I hope they're right, though I fear they may just be towing the company line... The source I got my information from, is not exactly an outsider either... So there's really no way to know who has got it right and who hasn't.

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Doug, why would have Cunard hired an entirely different design team for QV then? I don't think that Cunard would have hired Tillberg and SMC, among others, to produce designs for interiors that are already designed.

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Originally posted by cruiseny:

Well I hope they're right, though I fear they may just be towing the company line... The source I got my information from, is not exactly an outsider either... So there's really no way to know who has got it right and who hasn't.

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This young man might be right you know.

As I understand things Carnival has recently implemented a market research program where they actively share information with, and solicit feedback from, annoying teenagers.

Over the years, we - excuse me, I mean they - have found that these youngsters provide more significantly more feedback than the paying passengers.

In fact, many of the Carnival corporate decisions are actually based on information and suggestions that are picked up from Internet discussion forums -why pay for it when you can get it for free?

The hiring of Tillberg and SMC was a diversionary tactic to make Cunard fans believe that the ship might be different from our - oops, I mean - the HAL vessels. Suckers....

As you know, based on the feedback of one particular youngster about his experience on one particular cruise we - oops again, I mean HAL - has now totally reworked the entire HAL product.

This includes mandatory English lessons for all wait staff and softer mattresses for the rollaway beds provide to third passengers staying in their parent's cabins.

All the best,

Cunard will want a consistency of design between all of the ships in their fleet, in order to make passengers feel that they buying into familiar territory.

In Cunard's case, the decor will have strong links with the lines history, be it QE2, Caronia, QM2 or QV.

Ernie Roller, you misssion if you choose to accept it is; to cruise on a Carnival, Costa, HAL, and Cunard Vista Class ship and write a comparitive report for cruisetalk. Don't worry, Joe's paying!

[ 12-29-2003: Message edited by: Malcolm @ cruisepage ]

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Originally posted by SoBe Tim:
I don't think that Cunard would have hired Tillberg and SMC, among others, to produce designs for interiors that are already designed.

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This has happened before with ships that have changed lines, e.g. SPIRIT OF LONDON. As I understand it parts of her interior design were already finalised and P&O brought in their own designers to finish it off. These designers were required to take what was already there and incorporate it into their design.

Anyhow only time will tell what QV will look like... In the meantime everything is speculation.

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Originally posted by cruiseny:

This has happened before with ships that have changed lines, e.g. SPIRIT OF LONDON. As I understand it parts of her interior design were already finalised and P&O brought in their own designers to finish it off. These designers were required to take what was already there and incorporate it into their design.

Anyhow only time will tell what QV will look like... In the meantime everything is speculation.

I do recall someone mentioning a UK brochure that had a deck plan of QV, does anyone have this? I'd be interested to see what changes they're making to the Vista-class GA...

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Doug,

the difference is, the Spirit of London was already under contruction! HAL does not order furnishings over three years in advance, they simply ordered the hull. Certain aspects of the stateroom modules or certain hard furnishings may have been pre-ordered but that's not to say they can't change the veneer or fabric/color choices.

The changes to the GA, from what I have seen, are not all that dramatic. She's definitely a Vista but her interiors will have a similar 'Cunard look and feel' to them. This is no more a HAL ship with than the Oosterdam is a Costa ship.

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Originally posted by Malcolm @ cruisepage:

Ernie Roller, you misssion if you choose to accept it is; to cruise on a Carnival, Costa, HAL, and Cunard Vista Class ship and write a comparitive report for cruisetalk. Don't worry, Joe's paying!

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Malcolm,
I accept! I've already done the Carnival Spirit Class, but let Joe know he better send a ticket on that one as well just to "refresh" my memory. I don't mind doing the cruises back-to-back either. See, I'm real flexible and easy to work with.

Maybe Joe needs a review on QM2 as well?

The idea being that Holland America found they only needed 4 Vista ships (running out of compass points) while Cunard needed a 1, 800-1,900 passenger vessel, so the switch was made.

HAL Vistas Stats: here

QV Stats here

[ 02-01-2004: Message edited by: Keitaro ]