QUEEN MARY looks fabulous as always, and I'm just so thankful we still have her around.

Ernie

I never did find Normandie attractive, which most people can not understand. Oh well.

quote:

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Originally posted by steeplechase:
I wonder if they would be able to run the QM2 up along side QM and get some great pictures?

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The Queen Mary sits at the end of what is known at the L.A. River, where all of the storm run off from the Los Angerels areas drains into - yes into that beautiful Long Beach Harbour. So much silt has deposited there, that I've heard from people in the city - and this is in the late 80's, that if they ever wanted to work on QM's hull, they would not be able to tow her to drydock now.

But that raises another question..... since QM2 is too wide for Panama Canal, and since it is agreed on other forums here that QE2 must eventually 'pass on' (God Save The Queen!), then QM2 would have to take over the World Cruise, and they would all have to go around the Cape??? Sounds Exciting!

Scott

[ 01-04-2004: Message edited by: ScottQE2 ]

quote:

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ScottQE2 posted:
then QM2 would have to take over the World Cruise, and they would all have to go around the Cape??? Sounds Exciting!

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quote:

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Originally posted by Keitaro:
I heard that the cruise ship QV will take over the world cruise. Boring isn't it?!

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Captain Warwick confirmed that QV will not replace QE2 on the World Cruise - QE2 will continue the World Cruise until she can sail no more.

Partial Quote found at www.qe2.cjb.net

Take it easy!

Long Live QE2.

quote:

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Originally posted by Chris Cunard:
Captain Warwick confirmed that QV will not replace QE2 on the World Cruise - QE2 will continue the World Cruise until she can sail no more.

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But, I'll go out on a limb, open myself up and say that, as far as design goes (interior & exterior), she was, at the time of her maiden voyage, nothing special. She's VERY special now since she is the last of her kind.

Exterior-wise, her design is just a re-hash of every Cunarder before her; and her interiors, while warm and cozy, were nothing when compared to Normandie, which were so incredibly modern and lavish that some folks couldn't handle it.

Don't get me wrong, I love the ship.....but mainly for the outstanding service she provided throughout her wonderful career. I've been aboard her twice and, while she has been raped to the point of it being criminal, I was in awe to be standing on THE Queen Mary.

Chris:

I can understand how some folks would not find Normandie attractive. When she was introduced in '35, many were intimidated by how modern she was (when compared to other liners of the time).

Some folks are reacting the same way to QM2....just like they did QE2 in '69.

Thanks, Ernie, for the webcam shot.

And those fat funnels....

[ 01-06-2004: Message edited by: ScottQE2 ]

Disagree

My grandparents sailed the Normandie. They like most working folk went in 2nd class. Her 2nd class and tourist public rooms were much more toned down, yet still elegant. Clive Harvey's book on her shows the areas that the little people could afford.

I got a chance to tour the Grill class cabins on the QE2. The balcony suites were overdone in a Marriot style. Her 1 deck original suites are much more tasteful. They are done in a clean lined mid-century Scandanvian style with sycamore veneers and brass anodized machined aluminum details.

Titanic/Olympic's 2nd class public rooms are more attractive than the first class.

The 1950's Italian ships were a fine example of restrained elegance. 1st and 2nd class public rooms were hard to tell apart. 3rd class difference by portholes instead of windows, and lower ceilings.

Regardless of ship or hotel. The 1st class areas are always overdone to make the egoist feel as though they got their money's worth.

quote:

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Originally posted by ScottQE2:
I feel the Normandie was an over dressed woman wearing so much make-up, that it was really in bad taste. That, and it was an expression of arrogance and pride. Very much like a loud woman who makes a spectacle of herself, and lacks decorum.

[ 01-06-2004: Message edited by: ScottQE2 ]

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A BIG Hold the Phone!

The 1914 German giants lacked decorum? The Ballin Trio, which began with Imperator in 19"13", are considered by many historians to have possessed some of the most beautiful interiors ever put to sea. The works of Charles Mewes, shipboard and ashore, are still talked about today. To put ANYTHING Farcus has done on par with Albert Ballin's lovely Imperator, Vaterland, and Bismarck certainly raises my eyebrow. They're not even close.

I know all this is just your opinion and you certainly are entitled to it but, 2nd class on Olympic/Titanic more attractive than first? Don't get me wrong, it was nice (even nicer than first class on some smaller, less important liners), but second class was/is, afterall, second class and it's not designed to be as nice as first.

How wonderful that your Grandparents sailed on Normandie.....how cool is that?! Whatever class they sailed in, it had to be an incredible experience.

Also, folks who travel first class aren't "egoists wanting to get their moneys worth", they are simply folks who can afford to go first class and that's what they choose to do. I'm sure that had your Grandparents been able to afford to sail Normandie in first class, that's what they would have done. It if didn't matter to them, they would have chose to sail in third.

There is no shame in living within your means, even if your means allows you to go first class.

Respectfully,

Russ

[ 01-06-2004: Message edited by: linerguy ]

I work in design, and 1st rate accomodations are always a little gaudier to make the occupant feel like they are getting their money's worth.

The Ballin 3 by today's standards is overstuffed, overfussy, and overdone, as was the Kaiser Wilhelm de Grosse.

White Star refurnished the Bismarck/Majestic since the German decor was too bombastic.

Again, I would like to see how the 2nd and 3rd class lounges looked.

I try to judge a design on how it will look in 20 years.

from the "Fantastic Interiors" thread

Funny story:
When I was taking 'History of Interior Design" in college, the professor showed us interior slides of a grand 3 class 1920's ocean liner. It was pre-Art Deco. I do not recall if it was the Paris or Vulcania.

We saw the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd class lounges and dining rooms. An engine room was shown too. He did not tell us which was which.

In a blind taste test, the unbiased students unanimously thought the third class lounge was done in the best taste. It was simple and comforting, and had restrained ornamentation. 2nd class in between,and first class vulgar and ostentatious.

We thought the engine room could be a cool night club

___________________________________________

I have looked at the Rex interiors and came to the same conclusion. Her engine room is the most aesthetically pleasing.

link to Rex http://www.ips.it/scuola/concorso_99/rex/preclick.htm

I do agree that the 2nd class Olympic/Titanic were = to First class on another ship.

Steerage looks like a dotcom space.

Less is More----Mies Van der Rohe

[ 01-06-2004: Message edited by: desirod7 ]

A golden toilet is that the embodiment of a true luxurious interior? After all relieving oneself on a third class, ordinary toilet can be as much or even more an enjoyment! Luxury is so much related to the social and cultural norm of it’s time what is the cream the la cream of it’s time and can be considered excessive in another time. Take the Rococo style for example, a hype at its time and a sign of good taste and aesthetics only meant for the very exclusive few. Then it got out and later we had the modernistic movement where ornamenting was considered useless, pointless, and a dishonest way of creating good aesthetics. (form follows function) Then the Rococo got a source of inspiration in the post modernistic style where Rococo elements where used just for the sake of ornamenting (form follows fun). Of course this way of “borrowing” style elements from other times first started as an exclusive style for the upper class which (when they get bored) drops down to the lower classes and gets mass-produced. Then it is called kitsch!!!

I think discussing what the definition of attractive, better, more luxurious is useless because after all a class divided system is not meant to make the lower class feel worse but to make the upper class feel better. And if you look at history then for the modernists the Spartan third class was considered more functional then the over ornamented first class and thus titled to be of better taste and aesthetics. (those lucky third class immigrants!!!)

Lucky these days class systems are virtually gone with in one system. If you want to travel in a surrounding fitting your lifestyle (and thus being a statement of excellent for you) you can always choose to take the cruise line that offers that. Ships that still have such a system these days are only meant to make someone feel better then the rest only problem these days is that they don’t make the exclusive part of their product better, but make the not so exclusive part worse.

Best, Onno

[ 01-06-2004: Message edited by: Onno ]

Thanks for the response.

Well, I live in an 1896 Victorian home full of overstuffed, overfussy interiors so, I guess that says it all about what I like!

I tend to compare ship design, interior and exterior, within the era they existed. Usually, I break it down to pre and post-WW1 and post-WW2; preferring the pre and post-WW1 liners. For me, less-is-more isn't where it's at. I think liners from the '50's and 60's were/are incredibly bland and sterile. At least as far as interiors are concerned.

I'm one of those who likes the way the interiors of Ile de France looked before the war. Afterwards, she was ruined!

Thanks much!

Russ

[ 01-06-2004: Message edited by: linerguy ]

It had to be Vulcania......VERY overdone, even by my standards!

The Queen Mary was somewhat outdated extrior profile. The Interior was conservative (maybe therfore succesfull) I found the Brittisch interior's never atrractive the hardly chansed even the Cunards built in the 50's have the same design.

Iff i have to choise in wich vessel to cross in those days i select the Normandie.

The Olympic / Titanic where a mass products off Harland and Wolff off that time many interiore design elements would by found one other HandW ships built before. Look good at the ss. Rotterdam 4 off 1908 many furniture where the same. Not my choise to cross i would go one a France liner ore German liner and a Dutch ship to cross. The Mauretania / Lusitania looks better than the White Star duo.

Also the Statendam 3 off 1929 was a conservative liner the last in here sort. So i would say the HAL was until this vessel very conservative in there approce to interior design.

With the building off the Nieuw Amsterdam 2 off 1938 the approce the modern design and the do it right she was comfort modern buth in a elegant way never loud. i believe she was the ultimate trans atlantic liner off here days (and very succesfull and a mony spinner)

quote:

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Originally posted by Maasdam:

Also the Statendam 3 off 1929 was a conservative liner the last in here sort. So i would say the HAL was until this vessel very conservative in there approce to interior design.

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Hi Ben,

Statendam III was an interesting ship in an interesting time period. She did have that typical Harland and Wolff look (“how long did you want it” design) and her interiors where early 1900 designs reminding of a German castle. All because of the long delay for this ship to become reality. The interiors where already ordered for the ill-fated Statendam II and had to wait that long time before they could be installed on Statendam III. So at the time she went into service in 1929 she actually was already dated (compare her with contemporary the Ill de France a complete apposite interior wise) So you could say that Statendam was the ultimate retro ship, that did use all original décor instead of replicating.

When living in NYC I was in an 1875 Brownstone and had some Italian Reniassance pieces. Victorian furnishings are --appropriate--in a Victorian home.
Bauhaus Modern in there would be visually dissonant the same way a Victorian decor looks funny in a '50s hi rise with big picture windows, open plan and low ceiling.

quote:

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Originally posted by linerguy:
Desirod:

Well, I live in an 1896 Victorian home full of overstuffed, overfussy interiors so, I guess that says it all about what I like!

Thanks much!

Russ

[ 01-06-2004: Message edited by: linerguy ]

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Of course this way of “borrowing” style elements from other times first started as an exclusive style for the upper class which (when they get bored) drops down to the lower classes and gets mass-produced. Then it is called kitsch!!!

Right on Onno

quote:

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Originally posted by Onno:

Hi Ben,

Statendam III was an interesting ship in an interesting time period. She did have that typical Harland and Wolff look (“how long did you want it” design) and her interiors where early 1900 designs reminding of a German castle. All because of the long delay for this ship to become reality. The interiors where already ordered for the ill-fated Statendam II and had to wait that long time before they could be installed on Statendam III. So at the time she went into service in 1929 she actually was already dated (compare her with contemporary the Ill de France a complete apposite interior wise) So you could say that Statendam was the ultimate retro ship, that did use all original décor instead of replicating.

Best, Onno

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Hi Onno yes that's true but there was some chance in interior design fore the ship second and thirt class accomodation the looked more modern espacialy the thirt/tourist class section looks more modern. The ships interior design was addapted from the interior design off Statendam 2 wich saddly was torpedod as Justitia in the first w. war.
The ship has never seen service with HAL.

Onno iff you are interested by this vessel there is a new book about here:

s.s. Statendam 1929 / 1940.
by Ir. F. van Tuikwerd.
uitgeverij Waldburg Pers Zutphen.
isbn 90.5730.249.7
50 euro
Dutch written

Agreed. Years ago, I use to, on occasion, hang out with the Holland America rep here in Cincinnati. The first time I went to her house, I was floored. She lived in a late 1800's Victorian and it was filled '50's red and chrome diner furniture! It would of been cool if she had lived in a '50's home but, it was horrible.

I just smiled and said, "wow,... interesting".

Maasdam:

I have always liked Lusitania's interiors over the Olympic class but I've never cared for Mauretania's at all. In fact, I'm not that big of a fan of Mauretania; everyone making a big deal over her holding the speed record for 22 years has always been a sore spot with me. The only reason she held the record that long was because no one else challenged her. The first time someone tried, meaning NDL with Bremen of '29, they beat her record with ease.

Anyway, thanks to all for the interesting posts.