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» Cruise Talk   » Cruise Ships   » Lloyd Werft Bankrupt

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Author Topic: Lloyd Werft Bankrupt
Fairsky
First Class Passenger
Member # 781

posted 02-09-2004 09:05 AM      Profile for Fairsky   Email Fairsky   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Lloyd Werft files for bankruptcy
9/2/2004

German shipyard Lloyd Werft in Bremerhaven has filed for bankruptcy today. Yard workers were told at a noon meeting. More details to follow…


-----

This is not good for NCL. What will happen to Pride of America? She obviously needs a lot of repairs once she is raised. What about Norway? I am very surprised by this announcement. I though Lloyd Werft had been doing quite well with lots of recent business from cruise lines.


Posts: 1685 | From: Chicago, Illinois | Registered: Jul 99  |  IP: Logged
Waynaro
First Class Passenger
Member # 3484

posted 02-09-2004 10:08 AM      Profile for Waynaro   Email Waynaro   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I agree with you Fairsky. I thought Lloyd Werft was financially stable from the recent projects. I wonder if the PRIDE OF AMERICA accident have anything to do with it?

What will happen to COSTA VICTORIA?
NORWAY?
PRIDE OF AMERICA?


Posts: 6108 | From: Vallejo,CA : California Maritime Academy!!! | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
Willem
First Class Passenger
Member # 3005

posted 02-09-2004 10:23 AM      Profile for Willem        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The first message was followed by this:


according to the State of Bremen's economics senator Hartmut Perschau,
Lloyd Werft was forced to declare bankruptcy because Norwegian Cruise
Line did not make a progress payment for "Pride of America" which was to
be received on January 30th.

- - -

Willem van der Leek


Posts: 1469 | From: In the namesake city of Cape Hoorn. | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
PamM
First Class Passenger
Member # 2127

posted 02-09-2004 10:53 AM      Profile for PamM   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I am wondering why Lloyd Werft expected a "progress" payment from NCL after the state POA is in? To be relying so heavily on a single job's progress payment, to need to declare bankruptcy a mere 6 working days after it would have fallen due, seems to me they have been in trouble for a long while. I doubt under whatever terms the contract for POA are, the payment would still have been due with no likelihood of her being ready on time, when penalties would have fallen due anyway.
LW must have been relying totally on this money to keep their workforce going. After the disaster with POA, it would not be coming, and whatever contingency plans they must have tried to make in the interim, with bankers/investors etc failed.
Insured, yes, but it will be sometime before those monies are made available. Full investigation of the why and how, needs to be completed and agreed upon between all parties, which may take month/years. Probably why Norway is still languishing. If the bankers won't advance monies against the impending, at some stage, insurance monies, LW must have already been in deep trouble
What happened with all the CV money that must have been paid? Maybe LW borrowed against that to be able to do the work in the first place? All speculation.. doubt we'll ever find out the truth.
Pam

Posts: 12176 | From: Cambridge, UK | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Michael534
First Class Passenger
Member # 2953

posted 02-09-2004 01:48 PM      Profile for Michael534   Email Michael534   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Not a goood turn of events to say the least!

This is going to have an impact on a lot of things. Especially the poor workers. What a horrible lunch hour that must have been!

The statements and questions you mentioned make a lot of sense, Pam. It makes me wonder what the work force was working on at the time? The Norway? The POA? Have they done anything about righting the ship? I haven't heard a thing about salvaging and repair.

Could be that even if they had to borrow against income from the CV that two refurbish/repair jobs just isn't going to cover the cost of the huge task of repairing POA. It's true that the insurance money is a long way coming.

Again, just speculating.

Sure is bad news for all involved. Wonder what NCL will do with Norway now. It may give some clue as to how serious they are about returning her to service.

Michael534

[ 02-09-2004: Message edited by: Michael534 ]


Posts: 483 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
Willem
First Class Passenger
Member # 3005

posted 02-09-2004 02:12 PM      Profile for Willem        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Following information I found on another ship-topic list:


I receieved some inside info on the POA accident. My source, obviously wishing
to remain anonymous, stated:

"the reason that POA "fell over" was that she was too tightly tied on the
starboard side; literaly with no flexibility, and the unusually high tide
(reputed at 15 feet) meant that she was 'lifted up' - but the ties were not
flexible enough, and she literall fell against the Pier/Dock as the tidal surge
got to her before the workers could release her. She then took water on through
the openings on starboard side, and "was a gonner" before anybody knew enough
about it !!"

Interesting bit of negligence.


Posts: 1469 | From: In the namesake city of Cape Hoorn. | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
Willem
First Class Passenger
Member # 3005

posted 02-09-2004 02:13 PM      Profile for Willem        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
And another message:


Lloyd Werft has repeatedly said that they would certainly understand if
NCL would not be making the payment as scheduled. They payment was due
as per the original contract for the vessel's completion. This has
nothing to do with the accident.

However, please keep in mind that resuming work on "Pride of America"
including the salvage operation does cost lots of money. Lloyd Werft has
to pay for this, as the insurance will only pay once the ship has been
salvaged and the complete amount of the damage has been assessed.

So, you are correct that it *is* more than the non-progress payment, but
everything is linked to the "PoA" accident. "CostaVictoria" was
delivered on budget, by the way, and already inked orders include the
reburbishment of "QE2" and "Oriana" this spring.

Also, the bankruptcy filing was not made with the intention to close the
yard, but for giving it better options to overcome the current crisis.


Posts: 1469 | From: In the namesake city of Cape Hoorn. | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
PamM
First Class Passenger
Member # 2127

posted 02-09-2004 02:15 PM      Profile for PamM   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Looking at a couple of the German online newspapers, with the help of a translator, it appears an insolvency attorney Rechtsanwalt Wolfgang van Betteray has been sent in by a judge to sort things out, and it looks hopeful "waters will be calmed" Work will continue as arranged for the time being and the workers will be paid. A meeting is arranged for Wed to discuss the POA.

Smit was awarded the contract back on 16 Jan for the salvage of POA. See Smit's site. But as to whether anything has actually been done, I haven't heard, or seen mentioned anywhere.

Pam


Posts: 12176 | From: Cambridge, UK | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Willem
First Class Passenger
Member # 3005

posted 02-09-2004 02:18 PM      Profile for Willem        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Van Betteray returns to Lloyd Werft

WOLFGANG van Betteray has been appointed insolvency administrator of
Lloyd Werft, the Bremerhaven shipyard that filed for insolvency this
morning. Van Betteray fulfilled the same role when the yard was declared
insolvent in 1996 as a result of the Bremer Vulkan bankruptcy. Lloyd
Werft’s employees were told that the move had become inevitable on
Friday when a rescue plan fell through. Bremen state’s finance and
economic senators assured the workers that they wanted the company to
survive. The yard’s problems stem from Norwegian Cruise Line’s decision
not to pay the latest €37.5M ($47.6M) instalment on the 81,000gt Pride
of America, which remains partly submerged at the fitting-out berth. As
a result Lloyd Werft is unable to pay its sub-contractors. A loan
guarantee from the Bremen government will now keep the company
operational. This morning, Lloyd Werft docked the NorthLink ferries
Hrossey and Hamnavoe and expects a sister vessel later this month. Two
Carnival Corp cruise ships, P&O’s Oriana and Cunard’s Queen Elizabeth 2,
are booked for an overhaul at the end of April. Meanwhile preparatory
work is being carried out to enable the refloating of the Pride of
America.


Posts: 1469 | From: In the namesake city of Cape Hoorn. | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
Italian Cruiser
First Class Passenger
Member # 1684

posted 02-09-2004 03:25 PM      Profile for Italian Cruiser   Email Italian Cruiser   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
A very sad news about Lloyd Werft: they have built some of the most fascinating contemporary cruise ships.
About Costa Victoria she is on her way to Savona, just passed Gibraltar, as you can clearly seen from the webcam positioned on her bow: the stern one still display an image of Bremehervan.
Costa Cruises hasn't done an announcement... so I still ignore if the works on the ship were fully completed. She was supposed to sail from Savona on February 14.... time will say what will happen.
No problem for the refit of QE2 and Oriana: just to find a new yard... Mariotti or Inma perhaps ?
Many troubles for the unfinished and damaged Pride of America.

Posts: 887 | From: Orvieto (Italy) | Registered: Nov 2000  |  IP: Logged
Đraikar
First Class Passenger
Member # 1153

posted 02-09-2004 04:03 PM      Profile for Đraikar   Email Đraikar   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Im starting to think PRIDE OF AMERICA is a bad luck ship.
Posts: 1710 | From: USA, New York | Registered: Mar 2000  |  IP: Logged
Waynaro
First Class Passenger
Member # 3484

posted 02-09-2004 05:39 PM      Profile for Waynaro   Email Waynaro   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Draikar posted:
Im starting to think PRIDE OF AMERICA is a bad luck ship.
And I am starting to think both NCL and NCL America are jinxed ...

Posts: 6108 | From: Vallejo,CA : California Maritime Academy!!! | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
Marlowe
First Class Passenger
Member # 1632

posted 02-09-2004 07:45 PM      Profile for Marlowe   Email Marlowe   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
On another board I went so far as to venture that NCL might be using the flooding of the PoA as a way to get out of their taking delivery of the ship. No, I have no factual basis for saying this and it is purely my opinion, but if I were Colin Veitch, I would not want a ship which has already suffered so many indignities (as well as being butt ugly) in my fleet. Of course, there would be politics to getting PRIDE of ALOHA to keeping her coastwise trade endorsement, but Sen. Inouye should most likely be able to take care of that sticky issue.

My gawd, what a fine mess this whole thing has become!


Posts: 414 | From: mt. vernon, wa, usa | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged
Waynaro
First Class Passenger
Member # 3484

posted 02-09-2004 07:58 PM      Profile for Waynaro   Email Waynaro   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Marlowe posted:
On another board I went so far as to venture that NCL might be using the flooding of the PoA as a way to get out of their taking delivery of the ship.
Why would you say that? NCL has made much publicity about it...

Posts: 6108 | From: Vallejo,CA : California Maritime Academy!!! | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
Marlowe
First Class Passenger
Member # 1632

posted 02-09-2004 08:07 PM      Profile for Marlowe   Email Marlowe   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
No particular reason, but as you said:
quote:
And I am starting to think both NCL and NCL America are jinxed

Perhaps even NCL might be starting to believe that itself.

Posts: 414 | From: mt. vernon, wa, usa | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged
SpiritSailor
First Class Passenger
Member # 4355

posted 02-09-2004 09:06 PM      Profile for SpiritSailor   Author's Homepage   Email SpiritSailor   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Đraikar:
Im starting to think PRIDE OF AMERICA is a bad luck ship.

How could you say that Draikar? How could any ship so sleek, graceful and pretty as well as having such a beloved name "Pride of America" be unlucky?
Impossible!

SpiritSailor

Did someone once say "Pride cometh before the fall?"


Posts: 31 | From: Riverview, New Brunswick Canada | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged
Beezo
First Class Passenger
Member # 1505

posted 02-10-2004 05:33 PM      Profile for Beezo   Author's Homepage   Email Beezo   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Wouldnt be suprised to see a Festival ship go to NCL

~Brian


Posts: 865 | From: Massachusetts, USA | Registered: Aug 2000  |  IP: Logged
eroller
First Class Passenger
Member # 1649

posted 02-12-2004 12:15 AM      Profile for eroller     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Report: NCL withholds $48m over sunken ship

Howard Dicus

More details have surfaced on the sea change in the fortunes of Lloyd Werft, the Bremerhaven, Germany, shipyard that was completing the Pride of America when it sank at the dock Jan. 14, submerging three decks and immersing the engines in saltwater.

When the shipyard filed for bankruptcy protection from creditors earlier this week, the initial report said the move had been set off by the withholding of payments by Norwegian Cruise Line, a subsidiary of Malaysia-based Star Cruises, but the amount was not given.

The Straits Times of Singapore now reports that Lloyd Werft is specifically waiting for $48 million it was scheduled to be paid at the end of January. NCL has not denied withholding payment, but rather said it has made "appropriate" payments according to the delivery schedule, which is now slipping.

The shipyard itself said it has hired Smit, a well-known salvage firm in the Netherlands, to refloat the Pride, and that this will be undertaken next week. Until the liner floats, neither NCL nor the shipyard can be sure how much damage has been done, how much it will cost to repair, or how long it will take to do it.

NCL decided within a day or two of the sinking not to wait for this information but to sail full steam ahead with Plan B. A second ship, the Pride of Aloha, not a new vessel but one being refurbished, was originally meant to enter service late in the year, taking overflow business from the Pride of America, but now will enter service itself in July as the primary vessel for interisland cruises until NCL can get hold of a completed Pride of America. NCL this week again confirmed that it is still hiring locally, and has hundreds more openings.

Reach Howard Dicus at hdicus@bizjournals.com.


Posts: 7046 | From: Miami, Florida USA | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged

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