[ 08-07-2004: Message edited by: CGT ]

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Originally posted by lasuvidaboy:
The only place you can get a good picture of QE2 while she is in L.A. is across the slip of her starboard side.

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Originally posted by CGT:

That must be now? Because back in '97 or '98 I can't remember, one of those years, I went down to San Pedro and got good pictures of the port side of QE2 from the parking lot and area outside the terminal.

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Lasuvidaboy: It will take a big terrorist attack in Europe for some governments there to beef up security at some ports there. With all the terrorist groups there already, it could happen

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That's not true. Safety measurements in European ports have increased dramatically, already soon after 9/11. The Americans even require loads of (extra) safety regulations for ports and shipping companies that want to trade with them, including the cruise industry when visiting European ports. Don't think that just a port authority decides where they put some safety officers and some crush-barrriers. When, in this case, Cunard had wanted the spectators further away from the ship- it would had been so.

And about that 'big terrorist attack in Europe that's needed for some governments there to beef up security at some ports': already forgotten the train- bomb attack in Madrid where over 200 people lost their lives and over 1000 were wounded?

[ 08-08-2004: Message edited by: RobHolland ]

That onlookers are able to watch the cruise ships so nearby is also due with the layout of the Wilhelimakade. The area is free to acces because there office buildings (among theme the Port authority building) Hotel New York, appartements building sides and a theater. And they must be free acceseble.

So i agree with Robholland and Cunardcoll. Over the years we have oure share of tourorisme in Europe. Much more thane USA ever have and with much more causeltys thane on 9/11.

Eve here in the Netherlands we have oure own share with terrorisme. I recall the Train jackers in the 70's............! And IRA bomb attacks in the late 80's

I think Rotterdam handled QM2 pretty well even considering the 200.000 people present that day and Jochen, my parents and I enjoyed a nice cup of coffee on a terrace within 20 meters away from QM2’s massive bow, it made a spectacular back ground.

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Originally posted by Onno:
Security was definitely there. Only difference is that security in Holland isn’t pushed into the foreground as an object of power display. It is all what people are used to and in general Dutch people aren’t comfortable with a constant display of power, so security does there thing with a low profile. In my opinion that works best. People who want to do any serious harm also keep a low profile and don’t push themselves to the foreground. If the general public is starting to feel uncomfortable with an ever-growing power display of security, then terrorism has won even before they have don anything serious.

I think Rotterdam handled QM2 pretty well even considering the 200.000 people present that day and Jochen, my parents and I enjoyed a nice cup of coffee on a terrace within 20 meters away from QM2’s massive bow, it made a spectacular back ground.

Onno

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Originally posted by Cunardcoll:
The difference between European Security and American Security is that both are extremely well equiped but in the States they think at a large scale , secure everything , in Europe we secure everything in a subtle way , there 's a massive security around QM2 , Airports , ... but most of them you don't even notice , you 're being watched but you don't know it , and the security services are ready to take action in only a few seconds , I will NOT debate here wich one is safer , but I will say that I hate the american way , I think they are both equally safe but I like our way better.

Jochen

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Bottom line is this :
1. You can never be 100 % safe
2. You have to choose the right way between Security and Privacy
3. You need enough manpower for security

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Originally posted by lasuvidaboy:
It will take a big terrorist attack in Europe for some governments there to beef up security at some ports there.

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[ 08-09-2004: Message edited by: Matts ]

[ 08-09-2004: Message edited by: Matts ]

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Originally posted by Matts:

On domestic flights one ALWAYS went through metal detectors and X ray machines - something which USA is only just installing - with resultant airport chaos.

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Absolutely, Positively, Patently FALSE. The USA has had metal detectors and X-Rays since 1972 after D.B Cooper hijacked a plane over the Pacific Northwest in 1971 and after a series of Hijackings of planes to Cuba.

You'd better get your facts straight before you make such pronouncements.

[ 08-09-2004: Message edited by: CGT ]

But you ignored the main thrust of my post. It is highly offensive and thoroughly incorrect to suggest that Europe needs to experience a bit more terrorism on our shores in order for our security to climb to US levels.

At the end of the day no form of transportation is immune from threat unfortunately and high profile or high volume targets must surely be facing more of a threat.

I actually recently think we took a backwards step in aviation security here in Europe only last month when a couple of low cost airlines more or less abolished hand baggage limits. Not only will this incresae the volume of luggage on board but we know that a certain percentage of dangerous items will always be missed, making it more likely that something will. But added to that is the idea of one of these airlines 737 (some quite old) bouncing through turbulence with upto 2 tonnes (20kgx150 persons) of handbaggage straining the catches on the overhead lockers.

Personally I'd be happy to undergo any background or security checks which meant I could get near enough to ships to get decent photos or take ship tours - something which some lines still permit. And as an alert traveller I no longer am afraid of pointing out or questioning anything which bothers me to an appropriate crew member.

[ 08-10-2004: Message edited by: Matts ]

[ 08-10-2004: Message edited by: Matts ]

I was once standing on a dock side taking a picture of a ship that I was actually cruising on. A dock worker suddenly approached me and suggested that I should never stand too nerar to the mooring ropes. I said 'why'? He said that they are under many tons of 'strain'. The previous week one had snapped while a big ship was berthed and the rope had whip-lashed and cut a child on the dock side in half!

So I think the risk to the general public getting that close to the ship is probably greater than the threat of terrorism!

[ 08-11-2004: Message edited by: Malcolm @ cruisepage ]