So it is evident to conclude that there has to be a growing demand for such ships which means that we have to see some new vessels in this size range soon.

In another thread on the Norwegian Crown the rumour that Fred Olsen is maybe coming up with a newly built ship has been spread out.

Oceania is also looking at building a new vessel - Easycruises has announced plans to build a new, small ship - so who will be next?

It is the inherent nature of such a forum to discuss such gossip - and I may invite you to post your specualtions.

To start: I think Hapag Lloyd has to come up with some new ship(s) - maybe another expedition ship or a mid-class vessel joining the Columbus.

What is going on at Swan Hellenic? (I guess they will be sold - but who knows)

Will the Hurtigruten expand their operation to other regions in a more permanent way?

[ 06-22-2006: Message edited by: Ernst ]

quote:

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Ernst wrote:
Up to now the market for smaller ships has been served with older tonnage making it unnecessary to build new ships in this size range.

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Older tonnage as in how old? Unnecessary? There are many smaller cruise lines with small modern ships that have never been interested in pre-owned (old) tonnage.

Don’t forget Silversea, they are in there as well with intentions for a newbuild.

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But then again some people dont consider them at 30,000tons small!

In time I think passengers are starting to demand larger suites on smaller ships and as we see with Regent Seven Seas cruises they are gradually building bigger ships with larger suites.

quote:

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Sutho wrote:
Whilst I would cruise on a small ship and have nothing against them, their main drawback is the fact that they cannot handle high seas on ocean crossings and I think that companies are going to start building smaller ships larger to handle the seas and we will see less of them.

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The R-class vessels don't do too bad, though bigger vessels would do better of course. As for the smaller luxury cruise ships, they won't be cruising large expanses of open ocean, but mostly coastal areas. And there's the expedition-type vessel, which can handle rough seas, unfortunately it's the passengers that can't.

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quote:

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Originally posted by bulbousbow:

Older tonnage as in how old? Unnecessary? There are many smaller cruise lines with small modern ships that have never been interested in pre-owned (old) tonnage.

Don’t forget Silversea, they are in there as well with intentions for a newbuild.

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Cheers

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Onno

quote:

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Ernst wrote:
The older tonnage is not unnecessary.

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You've misundertsood what I asked. You said: Up to now the market for smaller ships has been served with older tonnage making it unnecessary to build new ships in this size range. Older ships haven't made building newbuilds unnecessary.

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quote:

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Originally posted by bulbousbow:

You've misundertsood what I asked. You said: Up to now the market for smaller ships has been served with older tonnage making it unnecessary to build new ships in this size range. Older ships haven't made building newbuilds unnecessary.

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Cheers

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quote:

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Ernst wrote:
I think the older ships available indeed made it to a certain extent unnecesscary to build new ships of modest size - there was more than enough (cheap) tonnage available - only now the demand for such vessels exceeds the supply.

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For some lines maybe (Louis, etc.), but there are other cruise lines that are only interested in newbuilds or recently built secondhand tonnage (see Silversea, RSS, Oceania, etc.).

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[ 06-25-2006: Message edited by: DAMBROSI ]

http://www.deltaqueen.com/

http://www.americanweststeamboat.com/

http://www.americancruiselines.com/

http://www.smallships.us/http://www.cruisewest.com/

http://www.ssbadger.com/

quote:

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Originally posted by DAMBROSI:
Problem is, we don't have anything like Louis Cruise Lines here in the States. It's all about the bloomin' size of the ship....the bigger, the more they can cram people on board for the money. Carnival, Princess, HAL, they have no intention of building smaller ships for those of us who don't care for the larger ships...Smaller ships for the Caribbean is what I would love to see, but I know it's not going to happen.

[ 06-25-2006: Message edited by: DAMBROSI ]

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No small(er) ships in the Caribbean or sailing from the US? What's that you say?

Celebrity - Zenith

Crystal Cruises - Serenity, Symphony

Costa Cruises - Romantica, Classica, Allegra

Discovery World Cruises - Discovery

Holland America Line - Veendam, Volendam, Maasdam, Zaandam, Rotterdam, Amsterdam, Ryndam

MSC Cruises - Lirica, Opera

NCL - Norwegian Majesty, Norwegian Crown

Oceania Cruises - Regatta

Princess Cruises - Royal Princess and Pacific Princess (07/08)

Pullmantur - Holiday Dream, Blue Moon

Regent - Mariner, Voyager, Navigator

Silversea Cruises

Other choices outside the Caribbean in addition to the above-

Pullmantur - Monterey, Oceanic, Sky Wonder, Pacific, Blue Dream

Saga - Rose, Ruby

Fred Olsen - Black Watch, Boudicca, Black Prince, Braemar

Orient Lines - Marco Polo

P&O - Artemis

All small(er), human-sized ships of @ 1500 pax or less; some vintage, some modern, some moderately priced, some expensive.

Now you can't say that you don't have any choices.

The trouble is, it’s the big lines that can afford the big advertising campaigns. I also bet the general American cruising public have never heard of 99% of those cruise lines. I bet if you walk into a US travel agent and say cruise, you will get handed a brochure of the big three.

Also, there ARE some more - just to name some -

http://www.hlkf.de/

http://www.deilmann-kreuzfahrten.de/

htt p://www.phoenixreisen.com/

http://www.holiday-kreuzfahrten.de/

http://www.transocean.de/

- I know, these are lines/ships focusing on the German market - but thrust me - IT IS POSSIBLE to go with them - the crew speaks English and also a lot of the passengers.

[ 06-25-2006: Message edited by: Ernst ]

Yes you are probably right, it is an advantage!

quote:

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Originally posted by Malcolm @ cruisepage:
Yes Tim, but apart from those you listed, there are none!

The trouble is, it’s the big lines that can afford the big advertising campaigns. I also bet the general American cruising public have never heard of 99% of those cruise lines. I bet if you walk into a US travel agent and say cruise, you will get handed a brochure of the big three.

Some of the lines you have mentioned are non-American, which may well put off many Americans. You also get the ‘loyalty’ factor where some passengers have cruised twenty time with the same line and have no intention of changing, even if they are no longer entirely satisfied – better the devil you know!
.

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Malcolm,

quite true but that is not to say there are NO small ships cruising from the states. HAL, Celebrity, Princess, Oceania, MSC, NCL, Orient, Regent and Silversea are ALL quite well known by the majority of travel agents in the US and and Europe and all have small/smaller ships.

To constantly whine that there are no smaller ships is beyond me unless one is truly pining for one of the long-gone clapped-out 50's-vintage bargain barges. And they're just that, long-gone!

And while the majority of the big lines operate monolithic ships of epic proportions, there are still plenty of smaller ships to chose from. Let's face it, the majority of the audience here is NOT Ma or Pa Kettle going on their first cruise, they're die-hard enthusiasts.

But don't begrudge or be too hasty to dismiss these big, new, 3,000 passenger ships as they are attracting legions of first-time cruisers. As these cruisers become more experienced, they'll start looking for smaller ships and more unique experiences. Which is exactly WHY the mid-size ships will be experiencing a renaissance in the next ten years.

quote:

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Tim wrote:
But don't begrudge or be too hasty to dismiss these big, new, 3,000 passenger ships as they are attracting legions of first-time cruisers. As these cruisers become more experienced, they'll start looking for smaller ships and more unique experiences. Which is exactly WHY the mid-size ships will be experiencing a renaissance in the next ten years.

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I've always believed in this. As people mature they want more intimate cruising experiences. There will always be a market for the smaller cruise ship. The company where you work Tim will do well.

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What is an old ship? A good question - the Sea Cloud or the Delta Queen are certainly old (not to talk about the Juno on the Goeta canal) - Mona Lisa and Saga Rose are old, also the Oceanic - QE2 and the ships from the early 70ies are just becoming old.

What I meant with older tonnage are the ships from the 70ies and (early) 80ies - some lines are just happy to operate these ships - for a mid class operation it is/was just more economical to get one of these old ladies - but this is changing now - some these vessels might be retires soon (Mona Lisa? Maxim Gorky? Saga Rose?????? etc.) - and look at e.g. the fleet expansion of Fred Olsen - there are not many vessels left in their size range.