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Ernie
From Seatrade Insider:------------------------------NCL, Aker in F3 dispute? 16/9/2008
NCL Corp. declines to comment on reports of issues with its F3 prototype at Aker Yards France. Industry insiders indicate legal issues have arisen that are tangling the contract terms for delivery of the first of the two F3 vessels.Responding to reports that 'one of its subsidiaries may be involved in a contractual dispute' with Aker Yards France 'regarding a shipbuilding contract,' NCL provided a statement saying it will not comment on commercial or legal matters.
'The construction of the F3 project is ongoing,' Aker Yards corporate spokesman Torbjørn Andersen told Seatrade Insider. He would not address further questions but said Aker Yards is in continuing discussions with all its clients, including NCL.
Sources say the first F3 newbuild is not going ahead, but Seatrade Insider understands that both parties are working toward a resolution of the current issues.
The 4,200-berth newbuild, priced at approximately $940m, is due for delivery in January 2010. A sister vessel is scheduled to arrive in summer 2010.
Andersen would not confirm the January 2010 delivery date, citing Aker Yards' practice of deferring to clients on such points.
Aker Yards France laid the keel for the prototype vessel on April 24, with yard chief Jacques Hardelay telling officials from NCL and its parent companies Star Cruises Ltd. and Apollo Management, yard workers and media that the F3 is 'not an ordinary ship. The concept is revolutionary.'
quote:Originally posted by eroller:happen to NCL?Ernie.'
.'
I can only speculate there is a financing issue. The recent financial meltdowns on Wall Street have severely tightened the credit market even for those with good credit ratings. AGAIN, this is only a guess.
[ 09-17-2008: Message edited by: Fairsky ]
quote:Originally posted by Fairsky:The gods of the sea are conspiring to ensure this best of a vessel never touches the water. They tried to stop NCL from launching Pride of America when they sank her in the shipyard, and now the F3 as aroused their fury once again.
You could be right Fairsky! If the early renderings of F3 are correct, she will make PRIDE OF AMERICA look like a beauty queen!
When I first saw these images I threw-up a little bit in my mouth.
quote:Originally posted by Fairsky:When I first saw these images I threw-up a little bit in my mouth.[ 09-17-2008: Message edited by: Fairsky ]
I did ask that in another thread before because these images are floating around for a while. Are we sure that this is the design?
I don't like NCL as it is but I am curious as heck if that is really the rendering of the actual design.
Maybe we should pool our money and send AkerBuilder to France as a spy.
I am not sure specifically how, but I wouldn't say it is impossible for some issue to have spiked the financing.
I wonder if this was an addition after the original plans were drawn or something they got from Alang !
[ 09-17-2008: Message edited by: Neil Whitmore ( Bob ex P&O Cruises) ]
I am very, very, very disappointed that Apollo didn't mix things up more when they invested in NCL. These ships with their over-crowded space ratios, hideous appearance, extra-fees everywhere you turn, and tacky hull art will be the death of NCL.
As for the rendering. Whilst I have no idea if it is genuine, it is certainly credible. Take MSC Fantasia and make some particularly ugly additions and voila.
quote:Originally posted by Cunard Fan:I wanted to see if I could make it look better. What do you people think?
I think it looks great, but maybe a bit too drastic. I mean those look to be the most expensive cabins on the ship. I have reshaped them and cut them back much less, though probably to a still "unacceptable" amount.
quote:Originally posted by Fairsky:I These ships with their over-crowded space ratios, hideous appearance, extra-fees everywhere you turn....
They sound ideal for the masses, to me! No one ever lost money by underestimating public taste.
quote:Originally posted by Malcolm @ cruisepage:They sound ideal for the masses, to me! No one ever lost money by underestimating public taste.
Indeed. I still think the time is right for a cruise line to reintroduce the "all-inclusive" idea once again. That used to be a major appeal of cruising versus land based vacations. If a line did that again, and marketed themselves as the solution to the "nickle and dime" approach of other lines, they would certainly be a success even if their fares were a bit higher.
The order was originally placed by Star Cruises, NCL's parent company, for the two ships (with an option for a third). Then it was announced that the ships would be moved over to NCL. And then in a major move in August 2007, Star Cruises essentially sold half of NCL to Apollo Management, LP, a private equity group. And Apollo had its own ideas about design and features for the new ships, which necessitated many trips back to the drawing board. That becomes frustrating to shipbuilders and expensive for cruise lines.
... industry sources have told Cruise Critic that it's quite possible that Apollo has gotten cold feet. It's also possible, sources said today, that Apollo is willing to take a loss on the project, which construction-wise is still in its infancy, by paying a $200 million penalty, rather than having to go through with the first F3, priced at $1 billion or more.
quote:Originally posted by Malcolm @ cruisepage:A rival web site says about the F3's:The order was originally placed by Star Cruises, NCL's parent company, for the two ships (with an option for a third). Then it was announced that the ships would be moved over to NCL. And then in a major move in August 2007, Star Cruises essentially sold half of NCL to Apollo Management, LP, a private equity group. And Apollo had its own ideas about design and features for the new ships, which necessitated many trips back to the drawing board. That becomes frustrating to shipbuilders and expensive for cruise lines.... industry sources have told Cruise Critic that it's quite possible that Apollo has gotten cold feet. It's also possible, sources said today, that Apollo is willing to take a loss on the project, which construction-wise is still in its infancy, by paying a $200 million penalty, rather than having to go through with the first F3, priced at $1 billion or more.
Apollo is smarter than I gave them credit for. They recognized a stinker when they saw one. My advice for Apollo: strike a partnership with MSC to manage NCL's fleet and US operations. They know how to run a cruise line and they have the capital to invest in new, beautiful ships.
When are they going to learn that in order for NCL to succeed that they are going to have to clean house with upper management and get people in there that can grow the business?
NCL was my first cruise back in 1986 on the little Starward. It hooked me for life. The product delivered on that cruise was outstanding. Too bad that they lost focus over the years and have never been able to get it back. Sad.
- Get rid of Mr Veitch quickly and appoint a new team.
- Immediately cancel the charter back of Dream and Majesty thus reducing capacity and lowering costs. Sell Big U.
- Reduce on board charges for restuarants indeed make some of them free and improve the food.
- Increase the number of crew on board to facilitate better service. Even if it means loosing some pax cabins.
- Introduce the first major US based Adults only ship.
- Increase fares to compensate.
- Focus on your heritage, make it work for you by developing those values.
- Total break with Star.
- Think back to the past and some of the ideas Kurt had ..............if they want to go big then do it, there is no point in a very dense ugly 150,000grt ship when for little more you can build 250,000grt for not much more. NCL was the first to consider this originally.
- Back to basics NCL - when that is right the rest will follow, SERVICE, FOOD, Entertain etc.
I also think that NCL's newbuilds are excellent and near 'state of the art', at present.
As for the F3's: there nothing wrong with big high density ships, if the fare is right. They are aimed at the masses, they are not trying to be 'Crystal'. I suspect the F3's (if built) will undercut RCI and Casrnival's fares and rely on onboard charges, which afterall will be optional.
I think they should return the big U to service simply becuse they said they would: they lack credability at present.
As for Mr Veitch, he does not seem to be having an easy ride. I'm not sure how much of their problems are down to his leadership or not?
quote:Originally posted by Thad: I have reshaped them and cut them back much less, though probably to a still "unacceptable" amount.
I have reshaped them and cut them back much less, though probably to a still "unacceptable" amount.
Thad, your forward superstructure canting back is far less offensive.
quote:... industry sources have told Cruise Critic that it's quite possible that Apollo has gotten cold feet. It's also possible, sources said today, that Apollo is willing to take a loss on the project, which construction-wise is still in its infancy, by paying a $200 million penalty, rather than having to go through with the first F3, priced at $1 billion or more.
quote:Originally posted by Atlcruiser:I think that there is a lot more to this story than NCL wants to publish. I agree that Apollo has cold feet over this project.
Now, the interesting question is this: If this is the smart decision that has been taken by Apollo for NCL, where next for RCI? Isn't RCI the most heavily-indebted cruise line, and becoming ever more so? Now that the world has changed so much, can RCI actually survive in the medium term, given its capex commitments?
[ 09-18-2008: Message edited by: Globaliser ]
RCI has already decided not to order a 4th Freedom class ship (according Aker Builder, the Letter Of Intent has already expired).
With the credit market as it is right now, I wonder if RCI still has the resources in place to pay for the Oasis and the Allure????
Brgds.Ralph
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