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Author Topic: "Nautica" attacked by pirates - escapes
r.fiebig
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posted 11-30-2008 12:49 PM      Profile for r.fiebig   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
This just in from Tim Rubacky:

quote:
STATEMENT ON ATTEMPTED ACT OF PIRACY
Miami, FL, November 20, 2008 – On November 30, 2008, at approximately 0928 local time, 0528 GMT, M/S NAUTICA was transiting through the Gulf of Aden within the prescribed Maritime Safety Protection Area which is patrolled by international anti-piracy task forces. As the vessel sailed past several groups of non-hostile fishing vessels, two small skiffs were sighted by the Officer on Duty and deemed potentially hostile. The skiffs, approaching from a range of approximately 1000 meters, attempted to intercept the vessel’s course. Captain Jurica Brajcic and his officers immediately began evasive maneuvers and took all prescribed precautions. NAUTICA was immediately brought to flank speed and was able to out run the two skiffs. One of the skiffs did manage to close the range to approximately 300 yards and fired eight rifle shots in the direction of the vessel before trailing off. No one aboard NAUTICA was harmed and no damage was sustained.
All guests and crew onboard are safe and there were no injuries. All requisite international authorities have been notified and all anti-piracy precautions were in place prior to the event and all necessary measures were taken during the event.


Best,

Raoul


Posts: 775 | From: Paderborn, Germany | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
Cunard Fan
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posted 11-30-2008 05:40 PM      Profile for Cunard Fan   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
This is getting ridiculous. This is happening so much lately.
Posts: 2327 | From: Pasadena just north of Queen Mary | Registered: Sep 2006  |  IP: Logged
Waynaro
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posted 11-30-2008 05:59 PM      Profile for Waynaro   Email Waynaro   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
It seems these pirates are having high confidence. Hopefully it will not be a huge blow to cruise ships operating in these waters.
Posts: 6108 | From: Vallejo,CA : California Maritime Academy!!! | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
mike sa
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posted 11-30-2008 11:39 PM      Profile for mike sa   Author's Homepage   Email mike sa   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Surely it is time to reconsider allowing any pax ships to be in this area, all it needs is one bullet and pax being injured or indeed killed. This time they were lucky again. The alternatives are of course longer but a lot safer.

Either give every cruise ship a proper escort through the area or stay clear imo.


Posts: 2272 | From: Durban, South Africa | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged
Sutho
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posted 12-01-2008 01:49 AM      Profile for Sutho   Email Sutho   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Here is a much better solution instead of preventing cruise ships from sailing through the Gulf of Aden a vary popular shipping lane with access to friendly ports, lets have our Navy's attack the pirates.

How about getting destroyers into the area and open fire on anything that is armed. US navy has destroyers that can use helicopters to fire hellfire missiles onto pirate boats. The US navy also has latest version phalanx machine guns capable of fireing 3000+ rnds/min onto surface targets.

It is time countries with the power to a stand and destroyed all pirate boats and increased patrols to do so. Also dropping a few bombs on pirate harbours would not do any harm too. Whos getting hurt? no one important and the world would not care with the loss of a few pirates.


Posts: 1055 | From: Newcastle, Australia | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged
OceanVoyager
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posted 12-01-2008 05:08 AM      Profile for OceanVoyager   Email OceanVoyager   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Here's the report from "Seatrade":-

Oceania ship fends off piracy attempt
30/11/2008
Two small skiffs pursued Oceania Cruises’ Nautica and one fired eight rifle shots during the vessel’s transit of the Gulf of Aden this morning. The ship took evasive action and no one aboard was harmed, with no damage sustained, according to the company.
‘Eight shots were fired and none hit the ship. The closest the pirates ever got to the vessel was 300 meters,’ Oceania president Bob Binder told Seatrade Insider.

Nautica was sailing within the prescribed Maritime Safety Protection Area which is patrolled by international anti-piracy task forces. As the vessel passed several groups of fishing vessels, two small skiffs were sighted by the officer on duty and deemed potentially hostile.

The skiffs, approaching from a range of approximately 1,000 meters, attempted to intercept the vessel’s course. Capt. Jurica Brajcic and his officers began evasive maneuvers, bringing Nautica to flank speed and outrunning the skiffs.

Binder said the incident began at 0528 GMT (9:28 a.m.) and all written reports to the requisite authorities were filed by 0543 GMT. ‘The entire incident was five to seven minutes because in 15 minutes, reports were filed so it was very brief,’ he told Seatrade Insider.

The Maritime Safety Protection Area is eight miles wide and 550 miles long. ‘When the incident occurred, we were offshore by quite a distance,’ Binder said.

Some of the passengers were aware that something was happening, he told Seatrade Insider.

‘All the ship’s officers acted according to their piracy protection training and that worked perfectly. There were no injuries to guests or crew,’ Binder said.

Nautica is proceeding to its next port of call, Salalah, Oman, and is due to arrive on Monday as scheduled.

Last April, pirates off the coast of Somalia hijacked French sail-cruiser Le Ponant, which was deadheading from the Seychelles to the Mediterranean. The 30 crew were ultimately released, unharmed, and some of the pirates were arrested.

In 2005, Seabourn Spirit sustained shots from pirates in two small vessels off the Somali coast. The ship took evasive action, and there were no injuries.


Posts: 627 | From: Hythe, Southampton, UK | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged
mike sa
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posted 12-01-2008 07:58 AM      Profile for mike sa   Author's Homepage   Email mike sa   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Sutho

And the innocent women and children killed by the bombs dropped ? Phalanx guns are effective, unfortunately they have yet to learn the difference between a fisherman in a fishing boat and a pirate in a fishing boat. Of course the hundreds of hostages currently held by the pirates would also probably meet an unpleasent end as well.

I assume this monsterous action would have to be undertaken by other navies as the Australian Navy is taking the month of December off in order to be more family friendly.

This type of action would only make a mess worse.

If the ships cannot be protected during transit then they must divert thus removing the targets. Maersk have already stopped sending any vessels through the area and instead all are now using the Cape route refuelling in Durban or Cape Town as required. No targets = no hijacks.


Posts: 2272 | From: Durban, South Africa | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged
Frosty 4
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posted 12-01-2008 10:05 AM      Profile for Frosty 4   Email Frosty 4   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Seems to me that submarines would be better than destroyers. The crews can get all the practice they need and they can observe via periscope these fishing boats and possibly the "Mother ship" from where the skiffs are launched. Once established as a good target--- "Fire 1.Fire 2" .
Frosty 4

Posts: 2531 | From: Illinois | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
PamM
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posted 12-01-2008 10:53 AM      Profile for PamM   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by mike sa:
Maersk have already stopped sending any vessels through the area and instead all are now using the Cape route refuelling in Durban or Cape Town as required. No targets = no hijacks.

Not quite, see Sirius Star. The pirates will move operation to where the targets are.

Bombing is however not the answer. More innocent people would get killed than pirates. Top speed and vigilance as per Nautica. Might have been better if she was doing full speed initially, no-one knows. Lumbering tankers and cargo ships with minimal crew are far more at risk than crowded cruises ships. The pirates will attempt anything if desperate.

Pam


Posts: 12176 | From: Cambridge, UK | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
eroller
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posted 12-01-2008 12:37 PM      Profile for eroller     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Sutho:

How about getting destroyers into the area and open fire on anything that is armed. US navy has destroyers that can use helicopters to fire hellfire missiles onto pirate boats. The US navy also has latest version phalanx machine guns capable of fireing 3000+ rnds/min onto surface targets.



The US to the rescue huh? Remember our country is broke and we are in dire straits. I don't think we can afford to send a destroyer to defend shipping lanes from pirates.

Ernie


Posts: 7046 | From: Miami, Florida USA | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged
Ernst
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posted 12-01-2008 01:32 PM      Profile for Ernst   Author's Homepage   Email Ernst   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Sutho:
[....]

How about getting destroyers into the area and open fire on anything that is armed. US navy has destroyers that can use helicopters to fire hellfire missiles onto pirate boats. [...]



Well, there are warships in that area. However, it would require a very large fleet to entirely resolve the problem. (form the ocean) Probably it would be more effective to 'go after' these people ashore. Also, it's not that easy to determine which vessel is armed and which one isn't.


Posts: 9746 | From: Eindhoven | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
Frosty 4
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posted 12-01-2008 02:06 PM      Profile for Frosty 4   Email Frosty 4   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The US Navy deploys Fleets all over the world. Eg. off of Iraq. Also has naval bases located all over. The cost is part of the Defense budget. These fleets spend 6-7 months in various areas.
Granted I have not seen a warship at sea(in port -yes) while on a cruise. But their out there,trust me.
Frosty 4

Posts: 2531 | From: Illinois | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
NauticalCities
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posted 12-01-2008 02:24 PM      Profile for NauticalCities   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
There is a naval task force in the area from Canada, The Netherlands, Italy, India, Russia, Germany, Spain, Denmark, Greece and Malaysia.

The US has the Arleigh Burke-class destroyer USS Ramage and the Ticonderoga-class cruiser USS Bunker Hill in the area and Canada has at least one Halifax class frigate.


Posts: 95 | From: Calgary | Registered: Jan 2008  |  IP: Logged
WhiteStar
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posted 12-01-2008 04:52 PM      Profile for WhiteStar   Email WhiteStar   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
They put sky marshals on planes how about 5 or 6 armed security guards on cruise ships? Give them m16's or AK47's

Reed


Posts: 668 | From: Minnesota | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
Ernst
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posted 12-01-2008 05:08 PM      Profile for Ernst   Author's Homepage   Email Ernst   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by WhiteStar:
They put sky marshals on planes how about 5 or 6 armed security guards on cruise ships? Give them m16's or AK47's

Reed


There is actually security staff on some passenger ships. However, merchant vessels are not allowed to carry any weapons.


Posts: 9746 | From: Eindhoven | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
Sutho
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posted 12-01-2008 06:34 PM      Profile for Sutho   Email Sutho   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Yes the US navy does have the ships and power to patrol the area. They have 22 Ticonderoga cruisers left in commission. There are 54 Arleigh Burke class destroyers in service and 30 Oliver Hazard Perry class frigates.

The Australians have 8 Anzac class Frigates and only 4 of the US Oliver Hazard Perry class Frigates left in service.

After the USS Cole was attacked they changed the system of the MK10 Close in Weapons System known as the phalank which fires 20mm rounds. This weapon is so reliable that in hot pursuit of a pirate speed boat it will blow it out of the water.

You cant re route the ships because the Pirates got the Sirius Star over 300km out to sea in the Indian Ocean and not in the Gulf of Aden. The pirates are using ships to tow them out to sea and then they get in their speed boats and attack.

The only way of stopping them is to spy on them gather intelligence and blow all their mother ships out of the water.

I am aware the Australian Navy closed down for Christmas. That is a first. Personally I would rather have them all deployed to areas like that to protect shipping. They signed up to serve and that is what they should do.

The British Royal Navy is another one that could be there.

To date I am only aware that an Indian Navy ship has sank a pirate mother ship two weeks ago. For some reason India is taught to the Australian Navy and US navy to be potentially hostile!!!


Posts: 1055 | From: Newcastle, Australia | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged
PamM
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posted 12-01-2008 06:48 PM      Profile for PamM   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The Brtish Navy are indeed there patrolling. They shot and killed pirates a couple of weeks ago, on a dhow which had attempted to hijack a Danish vessel.

Pam


Posts: 12176 | From: Cambridge, UK | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
mike sa
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posted 12-02-2008 12:21 AM      Profile for mike sa   Author's Homepage   Email mike sa   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
It turned out that the boat sank by the Indians was NOT a pirate ship or anything to do with them, innocent fisherman going about thier legal business and without the required communication equipment to respond to the Indian challenges.

US/UK/NATO etc have all said that there is no military solution available.

Until a political solution is available the only way to guarantee safety is to not go there, the vast majority of ships transitting will not be local but rather from the Far East heading for Europe, yes it is a big detour but better that than lifes lost. As for pax ships the nautica incident demonstrates that although they stand very little risk of actual hi jack gunshots could and eventually will cause someone to be wounded or killed - a risk worth taking ?


Posts: 2272 | From: Durban, South Africa | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged
Sutho
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posted 12-02-2008 12:55 AM      Profile for Sutho   Email Sutho   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I am sceptical about reports that the ship the Indians sank was a fishing boat at all. It may have been a fishing boat that offered to tow pirate speed boats. The Indians claim it sank quickly and that it exploded like there were explosive devices onboard. You have to be carefull what to believe in the news.

Another solutuion would to designate shipping muster stations at sea and all ships wishing to transit are to meet at stations and form a convoy and transit with the escort of a few warships. It can be easily timed to have ships meet at dusk and dawn for transits in each direction and have them wait on station for start time and have a warship escort them.

I have sailed to Salalah in Oman and also to Egypt and they are fabulous places to visit. I dont think our freedoms to travel should be stopped by pirates.

It is the countrys with naval ships that should put a stop to it to protect shipping. It is our trade and goods that need to be protected as well. If ships have to re route then the cost goes up as well as the cost of the imports to sell.

It may not be the most desireable way but maybe a few high explosive bombs on somalia would help. Japan had to be nuked twice before they even contemplated ceasing hostilities in WWII. Perhaps a few bombs on all somalias fishing harbours and ports would make them think twice before attacking innocent people.


Posts: 1055 | From: Newcastle, Australia | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged
mike sa
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posted 12-02-2008 08:56 AM      Profile for mike sa   Author's Homepage   Email mike sa   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
"Not the most desirable" !!!! Hell why not just nuke the whole country - no one left to complain.

That is horrific. To even think it is unacceptable.

And the hundreds or even thousands of innocent people murdered by these high explosive bombs don't count then ? Because they are only African and poor ?

And were those military forces to enact your idea those "innocent" people you claim have rights to travel etc would be party to one of the world's worst mass murders in history. I suspect that most normal people will be happy to avoid travelling in that area until the issue is resolved rather than be party to a war crime.

Comparing them to the Japanese in WW2 only shows a total misunderstanding and/or total ignorance of what is happening in Somalia and frankly insults the efforts of the Allies during that period. You are up against a few well financed renegade "warlords" not a country. The whole problem started with fishing rights, dumping and territorial waters etc.

I repeat, NATO etc have already said there is NO military solution possible, I assume their collective military experience is somewhat greater than yours. Thank goodness they are also more sane.

As for the reports on SA tv and CNN etc they were quoting the US Navy. The Indians it seem went off half cock. The smaller boats concerned were helping to lay the fishing nets.


Posts: 2272 | From: Durban, South Africa | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged
SDSail
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posted 12-02-2008 09:12 AM      Profile for SDSail   Email SDSail   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
It's time the marine laws change regarding Merchant vessels not being armed.
Posts: 21 | From: San Diego, Ca | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged
PamM
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posted 12-02-2008 09:49 AM      Profile for PamM   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
That may well add an incentive to the pirates knowing there may also be some arms in the booty. I doubt the knowledge that crew may be able to shoot back will deter them. I would not wish to be on a cruise ship knowing some had access to arms either.

Pam


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Ernst
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posted 12-02-2008 09:53 AM      Profile for Ernst   Author's Homepage   Email Ernst   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Pirates can be very, very brutal and violent and it is actually considered to be crucial for survival not to fight the pirates as soon as they made it aboard. I don't want to know what would happen if pirates expected weapons aboard a vessel first place.

[ 12-02-2008: Message edited by: Ernst ]


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mike sa
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posted 12-02-2008 10:16 AM      Profile for mike sa   Author's Homepage   Email mike sa   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The whole issue of cruise ships and guns is a contradiction. Issuing guns to anyone at any time is never a solution only an escaltion.

Just don't go there, the beauty of a ship is that it is mobile. So ships get to call at some magnificent places like Maldives, Seychelles, Mauritus, Madagascar, Mozambique and the Mozambiquan Islands (which are totally the most beautiful you have ever seen anywhere) and selfishly South Africa, before Namibia, West Africa etc. There are at least 30 ports worth visiting en route, places less visited which is a shame but all worth while and stunning. Surely a better idea than risking geting shot at. Alternatively ships can go eastwards through the Panama. Given these would all be revenue cruises it would not make a difference to any revenues.


Posts: 2272 | From: Durban, South Africa | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged
WhiteStar
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posted 12-02-2008 04:57 PM      Profile for WhiteStar   Email WhiteStar   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Ernst:
Pirates can be very, very brutal and violent and it is actually considered to be crucial for survival not to fight the pirates as soon as they made it aboard. I don't want to know what would happen if pirates expected weapons aboard a vessel first place.

[ 12-02-2008: Message edited by: Ernst ]



How would pirates get aboard a moving cruise ship from one of their dingys. I was in the service and could hit a moving target at 300 yards. Their only hope would be to do a suicide bombing...but then that's not what the pirates do. It's not like they could sneek up on a ship in the middle of the ocean without anyone noticing. The only way they MIGHT be able to disable a ship would be with a RPG but a competent captain could still ram their boat.

Reed


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