One thing that struck as a little odd is the the terrezza (lido buffet) is 2 decks down aft of the pool.

Otherwise she seems to be a bigger version of her smaller sisters. Nothing innovative or really different just a couple of extra eating places although Stars Super Club sounds nice.

I noticed little outside deck space, are people to be holed up in their balconies?

The cabins seem nice but that is where it ends. There are no bottom deck midship ones for those with poor sea legs.

The planning has all of the public rooms at the stern which requires vertical circulation; not a good idea for the retirees who make up a large portion of the passengers. Hope the ship has pods since there will be plenty of vibration from props.
Those in the top suites have passageway traffic to the miniscule observation lounge.
The decor is bland like an airport Crown Plaza.

Sorry, I think for that cruise format Oceania's R ships get the nod. The smaller entry level cabin is not bad at all and the fare savings will allow 2 cruises for the price of one Silversea.

[ 01-06-2009: Message edited by: desirod7 ]

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Originally posted by desirod7:
[...]

Hope the ship has pods since there will be plenty of vibration from props. [...]

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quote:

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Originally posted by Ernst:
Why should there be 'plenty vibrations'?

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Ernst, of the 15 or so ships I have sailed, all of the prop ships have stern vibration, little on the Galaxy, severe on the R ships.

The podded ships I sailed[QM2 and Summit] are vibration free at the stern.

Former cruisetalker Gohaze: resident expert noted propellor design is still a black art despite all the scientific advances.

quote:

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Originally posted by desirod7:

Ernst, of the 15 or so ships I have sailed, all of the prop ships have stern vibration, little on the Galaxy, severe on the R ships.

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Actually, Galaxy had quite some vibration issues.

quote:

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Originally posted by desirod7:

The podded ships I sailed[QM2 and Summit] are vibration free at the stern.

Former cruisetalker Gohaze: resident expert noted propellor design is still a black art despite all the scientific advances.

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Well, I can not claim to be an expert on that matter but as a resident of Woods Hole I can second that this statement is true for many aspects of shipbuilding and fluid dynamics in general. That's what makes it so interesting.

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Originally posted by desirod7:

Can you explain vibration control for traditional propellored ships?

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There are two major reason why it should in principle be easier to achieve less vibrations with pods: The propeller sees a less disturbed incoming flow as compared to a conventional setup (where 'more stuff' is in front of the propeller) and (as a side effect) the gap between the propeller and the hull is usually larger in a podded setup. (due to the limitations in propeller diameter)

However, it IS possible to to have a rather silent vessel with a conventional design.

Generally (pod or no pod) the best "vibration control" is to come up with an overall good design. (I know, this sounds very vague but that's how it is)

Many things have to be considered when designing a propeller, and mind you vibrations are NOT only about the propeller design.

Every propeller should be custom designed (and in case of passenger ships it usually is custom designed) for each specific hull. Concerning vibrations one has to analyze the eigenfrequencies of the ship and then design the propeller accordingly = one tries to avoid exciting the eigenmodes of the hull with the propeller.
Measures to reduce vibrations induced by the propeller range from choosing the right number of blades, minimizing cavitation to detailed analysis of the eigenmodes of the propeller blade and how they are excited when the propeller blade moves trough the wake of the ship. (e.g. skewed propellers are skewed to reduce vibrations)
All that is of course not trivial as other things have to be considered too - usually there is a trade-off between less vibrations and e.g. efficiency or which shapes can actually be built. (e.g. larger propellers are more efficient but a smaller gap between the hull and the propeller might be a disadvantage concerning noise - too much skew can be problematic e.g. when the propeller is reversed etc.)

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Originally posted by Ernst:

Actually, Galaxy had quite some vibration issues.

There are many - even recently built - rather similar ships of comparable size which also have a conventional setup and no severe vibration problems.

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Galaxy's vibration [a muted roar] came from the engines and the aircon. The ship is a bit noisy but got used to it fast.
The Love Boat's FIAT diesels are like a Buick V6 of the early 1960's; rough as a cob.

quote:

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Originally posted by desirod7:

Galaxy's vibration [a muted roar] came from the engines and the aircon. The ship is a bit noisy but got used to it fast.

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Well, there was more than that.

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Originally posted by desirod7:

The Love Boat's FIAT diesels are like a Buick V6 of the early 1960's; rough as a cob.

My Aunt Jean crossed on Queen Mary 1 in the late 1930's in tourist digs and noted severe stern vibration at 30+ knots. True the science has advanced.

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Originally posted by Ernst:

.....whatever that has to do with Silver Spirit and your totally unfounded assertions.

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Originally posted by desirod7:

Not unfounded! I have sailed the Loveboat. Silver Spirit with stern located public rooms are subject to propellor vibration!

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Excuse me?

1st - The former Loveboat adn the fact that you have been aboard has absolutely nothing to do with Silver Spirit and it has absolutely nothing to do with your assertion about the vibrations aboard Silver Spirit.

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Originally posted by Ernst:

Actually, Galaxy had quite some vibration issues.

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My brother is onboard CELEBRITY GALAXY as we speak. He finishes up an 11 day cruise this Friday. I will be sure to ask him if there were any unusual vibration issues compared to other ships he has sailed.

I sailed on her sister MERCURY and also CENTURY and did not notice anything out of the ordinary.

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Originally posted by eroller:

My brother is onboard CELEBRITY GALAXY as we speak. He finishes up an 11 day cruise this Friday. I will be sure to ask him if there were any unusual vibration issues compared to other ships he has sailed.

I sailed on her sister MERCURY and also CENTURY and did not notice anything out of the ordinary.

Ernie

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All the current and future Silversea ships
All the current and future Seabourn ships
SEVEN SEAS NAVIGATOR
All the current Seadream Yacht ships

I do agree the decor looks dull, but luxury ships are known to have rather dull decor to be honest. The passengers are supposed to be the main attraction, not the decor of the lounges!

If you look at the deck plan for the new SILVER SPIRIT, it's not much different than the new SEABOURN ODYSSEY. Again, they follow the same basic premise of cabins forward and lounges aft. This seems to be a common design trend among the smaller, luxury vessels. It must work as this can be traced all the way back to the Seadream Yacht ships when they were Sea Goddess.

Having sailed on the current two classes of Silversea ships, I found them designed very well and of course having the cabins forward keeps them very quiet and free of most vibration. I will also add I noticed no odd vibration on either of my Silversea cruises, even when sitting in the aft lounges. On luxury ships, the cabins are VERY important to the passengers. They have to be spacious, well designed with plenty of storage, and the bathrooms have to be large with all the amenities. Minimal expectations on a new luxury ship are two sinks, bathtub, and separate glass enclosed shower.

David mentioned the R-Class ships. These ships will never be considered luxury as the cabins are even sub-standard to some mass-market cruise lines. Personally the design of the R-Class has never impressed me, regardless of where the lounges are located.

quote:

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Originally posted by eroller:
[...] In the first place, many of the luxury vessels sailing today, and those being built follow the same basic design that SILVER SPIRIT will incorporate. This being cabins forward, and lounges aft. Some examples:
[...]
If you look at the deck plan for the new SILVER SPIRIT, it's not much different than the new SEABOURN ODYSSEY. Again, they follow the same basic premise of cabins forward and lounges aft. This seems to be a common design trend among the smaller, luxury vessels. It must work as this can be traced all the way back to the Seadream Yacht ships when they were Sea Goddess.

Having sailed on the current two classes of Silversea ships, I found them designed very well and of course having the cabins forward keeps them very quiet and free of most vibration. [...]

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It goes actually back to Finnjet and Europa being the first cruise ship to be based on that design. The motivation is indeed to keep the accommodations in the more silent part of the ship. (which makes the above comment even more strange )

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Originally posted by Ernst:

It goes actually back to Finnjet and Europa being the first cruise ship to be based on that design. The motivation is indeed to keep the accommodations in the more silent part of the ship. (which makes the above comment even more strange )

I am however still disappointed that more or less all modern luxury vessels of that size are based on a very similar design. I know that e.g. the lack of a proper promenade (and generally more interesting open deck space) will in the end not be an issue for these ships, but is such a compromise really what luxury is about?

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The Royal Caribbean Sovereign Class ships were also designed with cabins forward and lounges aft. Of course these ships also have a really wonderful wrap-around Promenade Deck that I think is as good as any classic "liner". While the lounges aft design works well on a small luxury ship, I did not like the arrangement on a large ship. Too much up and down and I prefer lounges that flow from one to another on a single deck.

Apparently a wrap around promenade deck is not important to luxury lines such as Silversea, Seabourn, RSSC and the EUROPA with Hapag Lloyd. Crystal is another story of course. I can only imagine the thinking on most luxury lines is that almost all passengers have their own private balcony so why waste a full open public deck that perhaps would be underutilized?

quote:

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Originally posted by eroller:
[...]

Apparently a wrap around promenade deck is not important to luxury lines such as Silversea, Seabourn, RSSC and the EUROPA with Hapag Lloyd. Crystal is another story of course. I can only imagine the thinking on most luxury lines is that almost all passengers have their own private balcony so why waste a full open public deck that perhaps would be underutilized?

Ernie

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I have done 2 Silversea cruises and 1 Seabourn which was quite while ago as I struggle for my early morning coffee and ciggy without a balcony !

Spirit just does not seem exciting, merely more of the same but with a Asian restaurant tacked on.

Odyssey however is a departure from their current ships, it offers substantially more choice over their current ships, the design shows real thought and new concepts have een introduced. That and externally she is IMHO a better looking ship.

I think Seabourn is on a winner with this one and may gain market share from Silversea given they are bringing 3 of these to market while Silversea is yet to confirm whether they will build more than 1.

quote:

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Originally posted by mike sa:
Its not just about the layout of Spirit although I must admit Odyessey in comparison seems to me to be more friendly it is the whole on baord product or at least my perception of it.

Spirit just does not seem exciting, merely more of the same but with a Asian restaurant tacked on.

Odyssey however is a departure from their current ships, it offers substantially more choice over their current ships, the design shows real thought and new concepts have een introduced. That and externally she is IMHO a better looking ship.

I think Seabourn is on a winner with this one and may gain market share from Silversea given they are bringing 3 of these to market while Silversea is yet to confirm whether they will build more than 1.

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To be fair Silversea had already evolved it's hardware substantially compared to Seabourn. Even the oldest ships in the Silversea fleet (Wind and Cloud) are much newer and offer more amenities compared to the Seabourn triplets. Of course the Shadow and Whisper are even more advanced compared to the current Seabourn hardware.

Basically Seabourn really had to take a dramatic step forward in it's hardware to stay competitive. I can only imagine the reason they ordered three ships from the get-go is because the older ships will be retired. Maybe they will end up at Seadream Yacht?

So while I understand why the new Seabourn design looks more impressive (and it does), I think Seabourn had a lot more catching up to do compared to Silversea.

I think Silversea is simply sticking to a formula that has worked well for them in the past. Perhaps they did not feel the need to substantially alter the hardware? I do wish the decor had a bit more panache to it. I hate to say it, but some of it reminds me of Princess Cruises. Big yawn.

quote:

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Originally posted by eroller:
I do wish the decor had a bit more panache to it. I hate to say it, but some of it reminds me of Princess Cruises.

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On the other hand, the first four Silversea ships were designed by Y&S, who has designed most of the "luxury" ships out there today. In chronological order:

SEA GODDESS I/II (now SEADREAM I/II)
SEABOURN PRIDE/SPIRIT
ROYAL VIKING QUEEN (now SEABOURN LEGEND)
SILVER CLOUD/WIND
EUROPA
SEVEN SEAS NAVIGATOR
SILVER SHADOW/WHISPER
SEVEN SEAS MARINER
THE WORLD
SEVEN SEAS VOYAGER

Ernie I hear what you are saying about Silversea vs Seabourn in terms of a leap forward needed and agree with you but I also firmly believe that a product however good that stands still (and is spending a HUGE lump of cash to in effect stand still) is not addressing the needs or potential of their client base and will inevitably loose out - I mean why bother doing it and investing if all you want to do is just be bigger not better, unless you can expand on your market you are not laying foundations for the future which means you eventually have to spend the money in effect twice to catch up.

Silversea has arguably been the leader in this market segment for some time, I suspect they will not be perceived as such much longer unless they are willing to think outside their own little box - even the wealthy cruisers want a little excitement.

quote:

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Originally posted by eroller:

David mentioned the R-Class ships. These ships will never be considered luxury as the cabins are even sub-standard to some mass-market cruise lines. Personally the design of the R-Class has never impressed me, regardless of where the lounges are located.

Ernie

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R ship bathrooms in the lower grade cabins are short on space. Oceania hardware is first rate such as Hansgrohe plumbing.

I have no idea if Princess or Azamara made as extensive upgrades as Oceania did.