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I do wonder how this ship will hold it's passengers. It is essentially a Conquest Class ship, but with a full additional deck of cabins. Same size pool areas, buffet, upper decks, elevators, etc. Personally I found the Conquest one of the worst modern ships I have ever sailed. The layout was horrible and the ship was crowded everywhere. You literally could not get away from the hordes of people and I never waited in so many lines.

Carnival has addressed some of the design flaws in the previous design, but I still picture the ship being very crowded (more so than other new mass-market ships).

I am looking forward to trying the ship though. It's been years since I've sailed on Carnival after swearing off the Destiny/Conquest Class and with no interest in the Fantasy Class. This ship gives me a reason to come back, although I absolutely love the Spirit Class and would sail on those anywhere.

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Originally posted by Grant:
I'm very surprised to see that she does not have podded propulsion, in fact not even variable pitch propellers!! A very traditional arrangement for such a new vessel.

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Originally posted by eroller:
She is very attractive for a new, modern, mega-ship. It's nice to see Carnival actually put some effort into the appearance. Usually they just butcher up an existing design. The new rounded stern and bow area look great. Cut those pieces off and you could be looking at any Destiny/Conquest Class ship.

I do wonder how this ship will hold it's passengers. It is essentially a Conquest Class ship, but with a full additional deck of cabins. Same size pool areas, buffet, upper decks, elevators, etc. Personally I found the Conquest one of the worst modern ships I have ever sailed. The layout was horrible and the ship was crowded everywhere. You literally could not get away from the hordes of people and I never waited in so many lines.

Carnival has addressed some of the design flaws in the previous design, but I still picture the ship being very crowded (more so than other new mass-market ships).

I am looking forward to trying the ship though. It's been years since I've sailed on Carnival after swearing off the Destiny/Conquest Class and with no interest in the Fantasy Class. This ship gives me a reason to come back, although I absolutely love the Spirit Class and would sail on those anywhere.

Ernie

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I think there is only one way to find out. However I have been on 3 out of the 5 Conquest class ships and not once have I felt crowded, of course there will be lines and what not but not once have I felt over crowded. I think sometimes the Destiny/Conquest classes get a bad rep, yes there are some things Architectualy I would have liked to see changes but overall they are nice ships. I wouldnt sail on them just because they have some flaws. I have no doubt that the Carnuval Dream will have a passenger flow as evident by her sisters.

Over and Out,
"Cam" J

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Originally posted by Grant:
Magic Pipe: thanks for the info. Are variable pitch propellers less efficient than fixed pitch ones?

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Originally posted by Atlcruiser:
While she does look better than the other ships, she is still nothing more than an expanded Conquest class ship and IMHO they are some of the most crowded ships that I have ever cruised. Never again. I expect this ship will be just as crowded or even worse. I will sit back and read the reviews as I have no desire to cruise on Carnival again.

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IMHO this ship will not be crowded no more than Oasis, Epic, or any other ship. As I have said before, of course there will be lines and busy areas of the ship but thats all cruise ships. However if you want to not cruise on Carnival thats your choice. But honestly I think you should give Dream a chance. IMO I think Oasis will be crowded with 6,000+ people but im still going to sail on her to find out for myself.

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Originally posted by Magic Pipe:

Short answer: Yes. Variable pitch propellers, in order to change the pitch of their blades, tend to require the root of the blade (the part where it attaches to the hub) to be shorter and thicker than would otherwise be done, which is not an optimal design.

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Originally posted by Atlcruiser:
While she does look better than the other ships, she is still nothing more than an expanded Conquest class ship QB]

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Exactly. This has always been one of my problems with this new ship, she not anything special. Even her lay out is the same, with a few small changes. At least she looks good though...on the outside .

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Originally posted by Cam J:
[QB]

IMHO this ship will not be crowded no more than Oasis, Epic, or any other ship.

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I disagree. Accroding to the numbers Oasis will have more room per passenger then Dream (based on double occupancy) even with her larger capacity. Also its not just the number of passengers, its also the layout of the ships. Looking at Oasis' and Dreams deck plans side by side I have to say that Oasis looks to be by far the superior design. Her layout is much cleaner, simple and more straight forward then Dreams. Dreams on the other hand look much less organized and confusing, also its based on the layout of the Destiny/Conquest class which itself wasn't a good design.

We will have to see how it works out but personally I am not to optimistic. In Dreams defense though Epic looks in some ways even more confused. Still I would much rather sail on Epic.

(why is my first paragraph coming out bold?)

[ 07-19-2009: Message edited by: Cunard Fan ]

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Originally posted by Cunard Fan:

I disagree. Accroding to the numbers Oasis will have more room per passenger then Dream (based on double occupancy) even with her larger capacity. Also its not just the number of passengers, its also the layout of the ships. Looking at Oasis' and Dreams deck plans side by side I have to say that Oasis looks to be by far the superior design. Her layout is much cleaner, simple and more straight forward then Dreams. Dreams on the other hand look much less organized and confusing, also its based on the layout of the Destiny/Conquest class which itself wasn't a good design.

We will have to see how it works out but personally I am not to optimistic. In Dreams defense though Epic looks in some ways even more confused. Still I would much rather sail on Epic.

(why is my first paragraph coming out bold?)

[ 07-19-2009: Message edited by: Cunard Fan ]

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I conquer, how can you compare a 130,000 TON ship to a 220,000 TON ship, if course the bigger ship will have a higher space ratio. I too have studied Carnival Dreams deck plans and they are crystal clear to me. Im just wondering what you thought was confusing about the Dream's layout?
Maybe you need a PDF because CDream's are a little small and I know for me personally I like to look at magnified deck plans but even so IMHO they are still easy to read and are definitely not confusing. However I did compare the two deckplans and OOTS are bigger. The deck size takes almost my whole screen and thats why they look clearer. It puzzles me how some wont cruise on Dream because they think it will be crowded. Talk about dropping the ball. I think Oasis will be crowded but I still want to sail on her, despite sailing with 6,000+ other people.

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Originally posted by Cam J:

I conquer, how can you compare a 130,000 TON ship to a 220,000 TON ship, if course the bigger ship will have a higher space ratio. [...]

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Originally posted by Cam J:

I conquer, how can you compare a 130,000 TON ship to a 220,000 TON ship, if course the bigger ship will have a higher space ratio.

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This is not the case at all. Keep in mind a much smaller ship can have a higher space ratio than a larger ship. Look at the Seabourn and Silversea ships as an example. They have very high space ratios and are much smaller than OASIS OF THE SEAS.

It's best to compare apples to apples. For instance mass-market ship to mass-market, and luxury to luxury, etc.

In the case of DREAM compared to OASIS, they come in as follows in regards to the space ratio (the higher number the better!):

CARNIVAL DREAM - 35.6
OASIS OF THE SEAS - 41.7
NORWEGIAN EPIC - 36.4

SEABOURN ODYSSEY - 71.1
SILVER SPIRIT - 66.7
QM2 - 57.8

CARNIVAL CONQUEST - 37.0
FREEDOM OF THE SEAS - 42.5
CROWN PRINCESS - 36.7

Anyway, this just gives you an idea. Of course the design plays just as important of a role. History tells us that Royal Caribbean places a lot of emphasis on the design and passenger flow so I expect OASIS OF THE SEAS to be pretty exceptional in this regard.

As for CARNIVAL DREAM, Carnival did fix two of the major design flaws from the Destiny/Conquest Class. The outdoor promenade which had only one entrance and no deck chairs, and Deck 4 which you could never walk through because of the upper level of the dining room. Deck 3 is still segmented but this is not as big of a deal as there is nothing else aft but another dining room. I am also very pleased the teen area has been moved away from the adult disco and interior promenade. This was the most ridiculous placement I had ever seen. On my CONQUEST cruise there was nothing but teens loitering around the adult disco hoping to get in. Security was everywhere and it was pretty pathetic. It was not a relaxing and secure environment that I find so appealing on most cruise ships. One underaged girl apparently got raped on my sailing and there were major delays disembarking as the police turned the ship into a crime scene. I've never had this happen on another cruise and it's just one aspect of the Conquest Class that really turned me off to this design. Also, there is still the issue of the very small Carnival style pools, and limited deck space. I already thought the deck space on CONQUEST was minimal, and DREAM will only be worse with 640 additional passengers at best. Hopefully the large outdoor promenade will help in this regard.

You are right though, there is only one way to find out and I'm intrigued enough by CARNIVAL DREAM to give her shot. I really would have preferred a from-scratch design from Carnival, but DREAM will have to do. Carnival are masters at taking an existing design and tweaking it to death.

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Originally posted by Atlcruiser:
One other issue that I found with the Dream is the design/placement of the exterior promenade deck. You will have five decks of balcony cabins looking down on you from above. How many complaints will we read about from guests that were either lounging in the sun or sitting down for something to eat and having a drink or cigarette tossed down on them?

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Yes, this is a concern that many loyal Carnival cruisers have already expressed. Likewise, they wonder how private their balconies will be with those on the promenade lying on deck chairs and looking up at them.

I'm disappointed that the promenade will have very tall wind screens all the way around. So no leaning over the rail and looking at the ocean and feeling that breeze in your face. Of course I'm sure Carnival did this to deter the drunks from "falling" overboard and probably for liability reasons as well. It seems Carnival has more of an issue with stupid drunks finding themselves as fish food then any other line.

Well, one good thing about the Promenade is it will deter people from jumping off their balconies. Instead of landing in the ocean they will just go splat on the promenade deck! Not quite as dramatic and no doubt a bit more fatal (at least in perception) to those that find themselves wanting to jump after a few too many drinks.

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Originally posted by Cam J:
I conquer, how can you compare a 130,000 TON ship to a 220,000 TON ship, if course the bigger ship will have a higher space ratio.

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What? Do you know what space ratio is?

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Originally posted by Carlos Fernandez:

What? Do you know what space ratio is?

Being larger does not mean a ship will have more space or less. Space ratio is the amount of space (in gross tons) compared to the amount of passengers in the case of cruise ships in other words a ship with a larger passenger to space ratio provides more space for less passengers, this means passengers have more space. BUT, this is not always the case and passenger/space ratios can be misleading. The gross tonnage of a ship includes every enclosed space, including crew, mechanical and storage areas which obviously passengers do not use but is on average the same. Assuming the current GRT of Oasis of the Seas is 225,000 GRT's then the space ratio per passenger would be 41.6, Carnival Dream at 130,000 GRT's would be 35.6 and Norwegian Epic at 153,000 GRT's would be 36.4. Also, the layout and flow of passenger and crew traffic is very important if not more so than the passenger to space ratio. A well designed layout provides spaces which are uninterrupted and straightforward.

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As you can see i'm not a space ratio expert. Thanks for clearing things up Carlos.

Origanally Posted by Altcruiser:
One other issue that I found with the Dream is the design/placement of the exterior promenade deck. You will have five decks of balcony cabins looking down on you from above. How many complaints will we read about from guests that were either lounging in the sun or sitting down for something to eat and having a drink or cigarette tossed down on them?

True but lets just hope people are not stupid and thoughtless enough to do that someone could get hurt. Also not to start an Oasis vs Dream issue but wont the boardwalk cabins have the same issue?

Origanally Posted by Eroller:

I'm disappointed that the promenade will have very tall wind screens all the way around. So no leaning over the rail and looking at the ocean and feeling that breeze in your face.

Dont forget the Bow and Stern parts of the ship. The glass (not screen) walls will only be on the sides.

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Originally posted by Cam J:

I conquer, how can you compare a 130,000 TON ship to a 220,000 TON ship, if course the bigger ship will have a higher space ratio. I too have studied Carnival Dreams deck plans and they are crystal clear to me. Im just wondering what you thought was confusing about the Dream's layout?

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I think it is natural to compare Oasis and Dream. Both ships serve the same market, they are both the largest ships in there brands fleet and they are sailing for the 2 largest cruise lines in the world.
As others here have pointed out being a larger ship does not mean it will have more room per passenger.

I understood her deck plans completely. I was able to find some pretty large versions of them on the internet. What I meant by my comment above was that Oasis looks (from her deck plans) seems to be the much better design in terms of passenger flow simply because the layout seems much more straight forward (if you get what I mean) while the Dream's layout is based on the Conquest's which was not that great. I think first time cruisers who knew nothing about these ships would find it easier to get around Oasis then Dream.

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Originally posted by eroller:
Instead of landing in the ocean they will just go splat on the promenade deck!

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Originally posted by Cam J:

I'm disappointed that the promenade will have very tall wind screens all the way around. So no leaning over the rail and looking at the ocean and feeling that breeze in your face.

Dont forget the Bow and Stern parts of the ship. The glass (not screen) walls will only be on the sides.

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