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»	Cruise Talk » Cruise Ships » Water, water, everywhere, Nor any drop to drink (Page 1)

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Author

Topic: Water, water, everywhere, Nor any drop to drink

PamM
First Class Passenger
Member # 2127

posted 08-22-2009 04:23 AM

Anyone hoping to watch Prinsendam arrive this afternoon at Greenwich, or see her over the weekend, had better make their way to Tilbury instead. The reason is quite laughable, outlined nicely on Greybeard's Blog.

Pam

Posts: 12176 | From: Cambridge, UK | Registered: Jun 2001 | IP: Logged

Linerrich
First Class Passenger
Member # 4864

posted 08-22-2009 05:48 AM

HAL sent me a fax on late Thursday, explaining that PRINSENDAM was going to be at Tilbury this weekend--too late to notify my clients who were already flying over to the UK, but hopefully they'll check their e-mails which I sent them. Shuttles are being run from the original berthing site down to Tilbury, to accommodate anyone who did not get the message.

Rich

Posts: 4210 | From: Miami, FL | Registered: Jul 2004 | IP: Logged

PamM
First Class Passenger
Member # 2127

posted 08-22-2009 05:58 AM

I would hope the PLA are running free shuttles up/down river too. A bit of a bummer being stuck out at Tilbury when one was expecting to be in Greenwich with easy access to everywhere.

I wonder how many joining passengers will turn up at Greenwich and get that awful heart dropping initial feeling of "heck no ship", before finding out where she is.

Pam

Posts: 12176 | From: Cambridge, UK | Registered: Jun 2001 | IP: Logged

Malcolm @ cruisepage
Cruise Director
Member # 301

posted 08-22-2009 12:03 PM

I visited to my local port, Tilbury, today (22nd August 09) to see her.

The image below was taken at about 1600h GMT. I did see a number of elderly American's wondering up and down the Thames flood-wall path, looking a little confused.

[ 08-22-2009: Message edited by: Malcolm @ cruisepage ]

Posts: 19210 | From: Essex (Just Outside London) | Registered: A Long Time Ago! | IP: Logged

PamM
First Class Passenger
Member # 2127

posted 08-22-2009 06:22 PM

Did you not cross the river? I was on the ferry when you took that first shot!

A nice ship, I have not seen her before, but thought she was a bit drab; could do with a bit of paint all over, and a waterline clean-up

I did speak to one passenger [they were all over Gravesend] who advised a shuttle up river was being provided tomorrow. Just as well as the Tilbury/Gravesend Ferry does not run on Sundays.
More pictures in the Gallery.

Pam

[ 08-22-2009: Message edited by: PamM ]

Posts: 12176 | From: Cambridge, UK | Registered: Jun 2001 | IP: Logged

bmajor
First Class Passenger
Member # 1754

posted 08-25-2009 12:32 AM

Thank you for the great photos Pam.
I remember her when we shared Padang Bay, Bali with her, when she was Seabourn Sun.
We were on a WC segment on Arcadia, (Ocean Village , Arcadia, Star Princess, Sitmar Fairmajesty ) and were a bit worried about it being busy on shore, with both ships tendering.
In the event we did not have to worry as the only folk we met ashore from her ,told us that the average age on board was over 80 and most had stayed on the ship.

Posts: 1371 | From: Orewa.New Zealand. | Registered: Jan 2001 | IP: Logged

jetwet1
First Class Passenger
Member # 6361

posted 08-25-2009 04:15 AM

We were tied up alongside her in May, she certainly looked better then, well cleaner at least, however to me she is one of the better looking modern day ships.

Posts: 608 | From: Las VEgas | Registered: Mar 2006 | IP: Logged

Maasdam
First Class Passenger
Member # 3858

posted 08-25-2009 05:02 AM

Malcome & Pam thanks fore sharing you're pictures.

Prinsendam is a nice looking vessel. Well traveled and 99% of here voyages are as different as she is in the HAL fleet 1 off. She's also the most profitable within HAL and popular among crew. Hope she will come 1 day to Rotterdam as she always go to Amsterdam.

Captain Schoonderbeek is quite an institution within the HAL fleet. And certainly the most visible. He have an interesting career. He served on board the Rotterdam in here last months with HAL. He have a very interesting Blog that he keep up to date almost every day.
Look here.

Greetings Ben.

[ 08-26-2009: Message edited by: Maasdam ]

Posts: 4695 | From: Rotterdam home of the tss. Rotterdam. | Registered: May 2003 | IP: Logged

PRDM100480
First Class Passenger
Member # 4922

posted 08-26-2009 04:50 PM

Ben,

Captain Schoonderbeek was not on board Prinsendam 1 when she caught fire in 1980. His daily blog is excellent !!

Posts: 16 | From: USA | Registered: Aug 2004 | IP: Logged

Maasdam
First Class Passenger
Member # 3858

posted 08-26-2009 05:56 PM

quote:
Originally posted by PRDM100480:
Ben,
Captain Schoonderbeek was not on board Prinsendam 1 when she caught fire in 1980. His daily blog is excellent !!

How stupid from me, I read a article about the fire wrong. Readings is such an art

Thanks Ben.

Posts: 4695 | From: Rotterdam home of the tss. Rotterdam. | Registered: May 2003 | IP: Logged

DEIx15x8
First Class Passenger
Member # 14958

posted 08-26-2009 10:11 PM

Is it just me or does a black hulls make any ship look nicer and more elegant. If that ship was all white it would not look anywhere near as nice. Maybe Carnival, RCCL, and NCL should try black on their next big builds to make them look more elegant.

Posts: 521 | From: Kutztown, PA | Registered: Apr 2008 | IP: Logged

dmwnc1
Cruise Director
Member # 3785

posted 08-27-2009 12:01 AM

quote:
Originally posted by DEIx15x8:
Is it just me or does a black hulls make any ship look nicer and more elegant. If that ship was all white it would not look anywhere near as nice. Maybe Carnival, RCCL, and NCL should try black on their next big builds to make them look more elegant.

We did an exercise like that a couple of years ago. Thad and gaz hants photoshopped these:

Posts: 5650 | From: Clarksburg WV | Registered: Apr 2003 | IP: Logged

dmwnc1
Cruise Director
Member # 3785

posted 08-27-2009 12:26 AM

Here's another by gaz hants. Guess some ships just look good all white?

Posts: 5650 | From: Clarksburg WV | Registered: Apr 2003 | IP: Logged

jetwet1
First Class Passenger
Member # 6361

posted 08-27-2009 01:20 AM

quote:
Originally posted by DEIx15x8:
Is it just me or does a black hulls make any ship look nicer and more elegant. If that ship was all white it would not look anywhere near as nice. Maybe Carnival, RCCL, and NCL should try black on their next big builds to make them look more elegant.

A great example of this is the QV, I was one of those people thinking hell no when it was announced that she would be a Vista class, but the end result (from the outside) struck me as probably the best looking vista afloat, heck even the grands do not look to bad with the Cunard colour scheme.

Posts: 608 | From: Las VEgas | Registered: Mar 2006 | IP: Logged

Sutho
First Class Passenger
Member # 6234

posted 08-27-2009 01:30 AM

Does anyone have the coordinates of where it would have docked had it got the water it needed. I would like to look it up on google maps. I remeber seeing photos of one of the "R" class ships sailing under Tower Bridge once and that is a fair way up the Thames.

I wonder how many people will get confused about where London is because of this?

I note allot of brochures published for the intelectually inept, state that Southampton and Dover are in fact London! this is despite the fact that both these cities are in completely different counties than London. In some sense it would be like telling you to go to Los Angeles to catch a cruise ship docked in San Diego.

Posts: 1055 | From: Newcastle, Australia | Registered: Feb 2006 | IP: Logged

dougnewman
First Class Passenger
Member # 11349

posted 08-27-2009 02:50 AM

quote:
Originally posted by DEIx15x8:
Is it just me or does a black hulls make any ship look nicer and more elegant. If that ship was all white it would not look anywhere near as nice. Maybe Carnival, RCCL, and NCL should try black on their next big builds to make them look more elegant.

Well, first of all, she has a blue hull, not black.

But I think some ships look better with a dark hull, and some don't.

This is a ship that was designed to be white - see here to see what she looked like in her original livery.

I like the current livery best but I think she has always been an attractive ship. She looks a bit top-heavy but she does have a very lovely hull.

At least she has finally found her niche after all these years! She was not too successful with Royal Viking, Cunard or Seabourn and her early days with HAL were a bit troublesome too, but HAL has spent a lot of money on her and she seems to be doing well now, though she is now in late middle age.

quote:
Originally posted by dmwnc1:
We did an exercise like that a couple of years ago. Thad and gaz hants photoshopped these:

I think those ships all look better in white, though EXPLORER OF THE SEAS is not bad with that blue hull.

On FREEDOM OF THE SEAS and CARNIVAL LIBERTY the blue (?) should be taken up another deck higher.

quote:
Originally posted by jetwet1:
heck even the grands do not look to bad with the Cunard colour scheme.

Can't say I agree with you on that. These look best in Princess colors ... and in their original form (GRAND/GOLDEN/STAR, not the later versions where bits have been added and subtracted and moved around).

Incidentally I think ARCADIA looks rather sharp in white - so there!

quote:
Originally posted by Sutho:
Does anyone have the coordinates of where it would have docked had it got the water it needed.

Something like +51° 29' 3.5", -0° 0' 55.5".

[ 08-27-2009: Message edited by: dougnewman ]

Posts: 2072 | From: Long Island, NY, USA | Registered: Sep 2007 | IP: Logged

Sutho
First Class Passenger
Member # 6234

posted 08-27-2009 03:19 AM

Those coordinates would mean that it would have docked near the O2 Arena/Millennium dome.

I wonder how many other cruise ships would be able to make it that far if they could pass under the Queen Elizabeth II Bridge at Dartford with a clearance of 57.5m

London would have to be one of the greatest cities worth sending a cruise ship to and getting more cruise ships in there would really be a bonus for passengers.

Posts: 1055 | From: Newcastle, Australia | Registered: Feb 2006 | IP: Logged

dmwnc1
Cruise Director
Member # 3785

posted 08-27-2009 04:26 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Sutho:
Those coordinates would mean that it would have docked near the O2 Arena/Millennium dome.
I wonder how many other cruise ships would be able to make it that far if they could pass under the Queen Elizabeth II Bridge at Dartford with a clearance of 57.5m
London would have to be one of the greatest cities worth sending a cruise ship to and getting more cruise ships in there would really be a bonus for passengers.

The QM2 has an air draught of approx 62 meters, so thats out of the question. Aurora has a 52 meter air draught. I'm not sure what the beam requirements are for fitting through the Thames Barrier and Tower Bridge?

I've seen pictures of The World, Silversea, Seabourn, and Azamara ships, the Hanseatic and the Deutschland docked in London. All but the Deutschland were shown docked on the HMS Belfast side of Tower Bridge.

Posts: 5650 | From: Clarksburg WV | Registered: Apr 2003 | IP: Logged

PamM
First Class Passenger
Member # 2127

posted 08-27-2009 04:27 AM

There are 4 berthing areas for cruise ships in London, TBL - Tower Bridge Lower; TBU - Tower Bridge Upper; GST - Greenwich Ship Tier; LCT - London Cruise Terminal [Tilbury, but 25nm downriver. Only the other 3 are *in* London].

Prinsendam would have been moored mid river off Greenwich Pier where you can see the mooring bouys to the left of where the Cutty Sark is marked. The floating Cruise Terminal is used, as it is at TBL, see mooring bouys. At TBU the ships are berthed alongsideHMS Belfast. Tower Bridge is lifted, you can see schedules here.

Details of the various Cruise Terminals.
Cruise Ship Diary.

The clearance for the QEII bridge is 57.5 m (189 ft), so that is not the problem. Queen Victoria has a max air draft of 54.5 m - just she is too long.

Pam
PS I am pretty sure Azamara Journey & The World have not been under Tower Bridge. I know Azamara Journey was at TBL one time, but have only seen the The World at Greenwich.

[ 08-27-2009: Message edited by: PamM ]

Posts: 12176 | From: Cambridge, UK | Registered: Jun 2001 | IP: Logged

dmwnc1
Cruise Director
Member # 3785

posted 08-27-2009 04:48 AM

quote:
Originally posted by PamM:
I am pretty sure Azamara Journey & The World have not been under Tower Bridge. I know Azamara Journey was at TBL one time, but have only seen the The World at Greenwich.

Right of course. I was looking at the Azamara Journey picture and misinterpreted its location. I thought I had seen on of The World near Tower Bridge but may have been mistaken?

Azamara Journey in London:

See here

[ 08-27-2009: Message edited by: dmwnc1 ]

Posts: 5650 | From: Clarksburg WV | Registered: Apr 2003 | IP: Logged

PamM
First Class Passenger
Member # 2127

posted 08-27-2009 05:23 AM

I don't know why the media went to town over Azamara Journey. Minerva II had her christening at TBL back in 2003, 5 years earlier and then she really was the largest vessel to have gone that far upriver. There are some photos in the galleries.

Pam

Posts: 12176 | From: Cambridge, UK | Registered: Jun 2001 | IP: Logged

Sutho
First Class Passenger
Member # 6234

posted 08-27-2009 06:00 AM

So from what I can gather from the QEII Bridge and ships sizes, by the sounds of it Vista class ships, Aurora, Oriana, and possibly the original Grand class could make it up the Thames but no further than the O2 arena.

The Thames flood barriers appear to be 59m apart.

Surely a transit that far up the Thames would not be as tight as the transit of the river Ems that cruise ships must do to get from Papenburg's Myer & Werft shipyard.

I recon that would be good for both the cruise business and London if ships like them above could make it to the O2 arena if a cruise wharf was built there. It certainly looks long and straight enough for a wharf.

Posts: 1055 | From: Newcastle, Australia | Registered: Feb 2006 | IP: Logged

greybeard
First Class Passenger
Member # 5284

posted 08-27-2009 07:46 AM

Pictures of The World when the ship visited Greenwich in 2005 are in the gallery here

Posts: 587 | From: London | Registered: Dec 2004 | IP: Logged

Linerrich
First Class Passenger
Member # 4864

posted 08-27-2009 09:18 AM

quote:
Originally posted by PamM:

I wonder how many joining passengers will turn up at Greenwich and get that awful heart dropping initial feeling of "heck no ship", before finding out where she is.
Pam

I've just heard from friends on board PRINSENDAM who sailed on Sunday--HAL had previously advised them to go to the Greenwich Cruise Terminal and they would be transferred down to Tilbury. Apparently none of the taxi drivers knew where the "Greenwich Cruise Terminal" was--turns out that HAL had 2 reps standing in a park, gathering people for the once-an-hour bus to Tilbury. The bus driver was in a bad mood (hadn't expected to work that day) and made the pax load their own luggage!

Apparently Tilbury was over-staffed--too bad a few could not have been sent to Greenwich to help out there. Not like HAL's style at all.

Rich

Posts: 4210 | From: Miami, FL | Registered: Jul 2004 | IP: Logged

Pascal
First Class Passenger
Member # 5510

posted 08-27-2009 01:54 PM

I think that the two main issues for most ships to sail upstream on the Thames (just like on most rivers, by the way), apart from air draught are the draft (which may be quite tiny and unstable in a river) and the absence of a turn around bassin.
I don't think most captains (and pilots) would be confortable in sailing backwards on a narrow river with traffic, currents and other hazards for several miles. It wouldn't be reasonable. Ships need to do a 180° turn in the vicinity of where they berth : so for a 250 meters ship, you need a river width of at least something like 290 meters (margin) with the sufficient draft.

Posts: 1371 | From: Aix en Provence | Registered: Mar 2005 | IP: Logged

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