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She start this first cruise yesterday from Marseille.
The ship is very beautiful and interiors are splendid.
Some picture on the web site www.Ponant.com
quote:Originally posted by Ernst:At least for me it's a big relief to (finally) see ships like that built these days. Amongst all these sort of disgusting floating mega resorts vessels like Le Boreal let me hope that traveling by ship is not something of the past.
Wow, "disgusting" seems a bit harsh but to each his own. My last two cruises were on some of the largest mega-ships in the industry, QM2 and OASIS. I greatly enjoyed both experiences and hardly considered them disgusting.
I also enjoy the smaller, more intimate ships such as Windstar and Silversea. I'm sure I would enjoy Le Boreal too.
There is a tradeoff with the smaller and larger ships. On the larger ships you get much more exciting nightlife, diverse fellow passengers, huge spas, great entertainment, multiple dining options, and large casinos. Activities are virtually non-stop but you can escape it if you choose to. I'm still young enough where all these things are important to me, and I enjoy them.
On the small ships you get a wonderful, intimate atmosphere, great food and service, more interesting ports, but what is lacking is nightlife and a sense of excitement. Where as I would not hesitate to sail on a mega-ship with friends or as a single, I'm not sure I would do the same on a small ship. The passengers tend to be all couples and much more private. The suites are all large so people spend a great deal of time in them compared to the large ships. Sometimes at night the ship can feel deserted and its probably best if you are an early riser and go to bed early. I do enjoy sailing on these small ships with my partner, where we are much more concerned about spending quality time together and exploring ports.
At the end of the day I enjoy both types of ships, for very different reasons.
Ernie
quote:Originally posted by eroller:Wow, "disgusting" seems a bit harsh but to each his own. My last two cruises were on some of the largest mega-ships in the industry, QM2 and OASIS. I greatly enjoyed both experiences and hardly considered them disgusting.
Interesting ships and of course it's fascinating to see 'what can be done' but finally disgusting.
quote:Originally posted by eroller:I also enjoy the smaller, more intimate ships such as Windstar and Silversea. I'm sure I would enjoy Le Boreal too.There is a tradeoff with the smaller and larger ships. On the larger ships you get much more exciting nightlife, diverse fellow passengers, huge spas, great entertainment, multiple dining options, and large casinos.
There is a tradeoff with the smaller and larger ships. On the larger ships you get much more exciting nightlife, diverse fellow passengers, huge spas, great entertainment, multiple dining options, and large casinos.
Yes but sadly in 'shopping mall' style.
quote:Originally posted by eroller:[...] but what is lacking is nightlife and a sense of excitement.
This is certainly not true. It's of course hard to generalize but I encounterd quite a lot of nightlife aboard smaller ships. And it's certainly more exciting to cruise on the Orinoco, to Antarctica or just to stop on a sea day and swim 'mid ocean' than most of the artificial resort amusement-park attractions of the very large mainstream ships.
quote:Originally posted by eroller: Where as I would not hesitate to sail on a mega-ship with friends or as a single, I'm not sure I would do the same on a small ship. The passengers tend to be all couples and much more private.
Again, not my experience at all. I would even argue that the opposite is true.
quote:Originally posted by eroller: The suites are all large so people spend a great deal of time in them compared to the large ships. Sometimes at night the ship can feel deserted and its probably best if you are an early riser and go to bed early.
Actually, those very large mainstream ships offer larger suites than most smaller vessels. Again, one can't generalize but I have very much the impression that the smaller the ship the more people are 'out' (of their cabin).
I will also never agree to your opinion that the large mega-ships are "disgusting".
[ 05-08-2010: Message edited by: eroller ]
quote:Originally posted by eroller:For the most part my experiences are completely the opposite of yours, and I have sailed on a fair number of smaller and larger ships.[ 05-08-2010: Message edited by: eroller ]
What was the smallest ship you sailed on if I may ask?(Boreal is actually not that small anymore!)
quote:Originally posted by eroller:I will also never agree to your opinion that the large mega-ships are "disgusting". Ernie
Fair enough - that's just a question of taste and I guess also of the cultural background.
Personally I would not go any smaller unless it was my own private yacht filled with my personal friends.
I might also note that your idea of exciting nightlife and my idea of exciting nightlife are probably two very different things. While I can enjoy engaging conversation over a drink and perhaps music from a piano, I also enjoy dancing on occasion in a state of the art nightclub until the wee hours.
The mega-ships afford me both opportunities, depending on my mood that evening.
quote:Originally posted by eroller:WINDSTAR. 148 passengers.
That's small but one can go way smaller. Also, it's a ship geared towards an U.S. audience.Mind you, I also enjoy larger ships than that - however, those very large ones are too large for me and I am indeed disgusted by that.
quote:Originally posted by eroller:I might also note that your idea of exciting nightlife and my idea of exciting nightlife are probably two very different things. While I can enjoy engaging conversation over a drink and perhaps music from a piano, I also enjoy dancing on occasion in a state of the art nightclub until the wee hours. [...]
It might be entirely true that our personal preferences for nightlife are different but I indeed have seen very wild parties aboard smaller ships (with dancing until 'wee hours'). I am however not familiar with any cruise ship that offers are truly 'state of the art nightclub' compared to what is found 'ashore'.
[ 05-08-2010: Message edited by: Ernst ]
http://en.ponant.com/Our-ships/Le-Boreal/Decks-and-Staterooms
[ 05-08-2010: Message edited by: NP ]
quote:Originally posted by Ernst: I am however not familiar with any cruise ship that offers are truly 'state of the art nightclub' compared to what is found 'ashore'.
I am however not familiar with any cruise ship that offers are truly 'state of the art nightclub' compared to what is found 'ashore'.
Your post implies you have a fair bit of experience with shore based night clubs? This seems uncharacteristic of a person that finds mega-ships disgusting.
Having lived in NY, LA, and Miami, arguably three of the biggest "hot spots" in the US, I've done my share of clubbing. Yes the clubs ashore are bigger, but not always better. Many new mega-ships today have nightclubs with a sound and lighting system that easily compare with clubs ashore, but on a smaller scale. On Royal Caribbean, they even bring in DJ's from Scratch DJ Academy so these guys know how to spin and get a club rocking. The best part, you don't have to drive home at 3-4am.
I feel the same way about the show lounges. The show lounge on OASIS OF THE SEAS is probably more technically advanced than almost any Broadway theater. There may be some more modern theaters in Las Vegas that can rival it.
quote:Originally posted by Ernst:That's small but one can go way smaller. Also, it's a ship geared towards an U.S. audience.
That's small but one can go way smaller. Also, it's a ship geared towards an U.S. audience.
So what are you saying? Because it's a small ship geared towards a US audience it doesn't count? Do I need to go on a French ship to truly experience small ship cruising? I don't think so.
quote:Originally posted by NP:http://www.meretmarine.com/article.cfm?id=113103[ 05-08-2010: Message edited by: NP ]
The ship looks quite nice, but I'm not sure I like the show lounge. It looks rather "mega-ship'ish" and I think they could have done something more stylish.
The cabins appear well appointed, but are not up to the size standards of luxury brands like Silversea and Seabourn. Standard baths do not have a tub, and there is no walk in closet.
I would be interested to see what the pool and outer deck areas look like.
quote:Originally posted by eroller:Your post implies you have a fair bit of experience with shore based night clubs?
Your post implies you have a fair bit of experience with shore based night clubs?
Not at all but I lived in many large cities and I have seen these 'very hip' clubs and I have seen the stuff offered aboard cruise ships.
quote:Originally posted by eroller:This seems uncharacteristic of a person that finds mega-ships disgusting.
Do you think so? I had the impression that these 'very cool', 'very sophisticated' and 'very exclusive' 'clubs' were right the opposite to a resort vacation!
quote:Originally posted by eroller:Having lived in NY, LA, and Miami, arguably three of the biggest "hot spots" in the US, I've done my share of clubbing. Yes the clubs ashore are bigger, but not always better. Many new mega-ships today have nightclubs with a sound and lighting system that easily compare with clubs ashore, but on a smaller scale.
This is not at all about size or large light systems! As you know, it's not always the large clubs which are the 'cool' ones. Again, I am not an expert on that matter but the stuff offered aboard cruise ships is rather mainstream (fair enough).
quote:Originally posted by eroller:On Royal Caribbean, they even bring in DJ's from Scratch DJ Academy
Oh, I see we have very, very different ideas of what makes a 'state of the art nightclub'.
quote:Originally posted by eroller:[....]I feel the same way about the show lounges. The show lounge on OASIS OF THE SEAS is probably more technically advanced than almost any Broadway theater. There may be some more modern theaters in Las Vegas that can rival it.Ernie
I am a bit familiar with stage technology - actually I just got a job offer from a company that builds stages. The theaters and show lounges aboard cruise ships are indeed impressive but still no match compared to large theaters or opera houses ashore (not even close). I don't know much about Broadway theaters but many theaters used for musicals etc. do not have an overly impressive stage machinery since the stage sets for musical productions are often 'stand alone' solutions.
My partner and myself generally dislike large resorts on land and prefer renting a house w/friends or staying at more intimate resorts such as the Hotel Hana Maui or St Regis-Punta Mita in Mexico. I guess living in a busy city our entire lives makes us prefer a more low-key vacation but one that is still fun.
[ 05-08-2010: Message edited by: lasuvidaboy ]
quote:Originally posted by eroller:There may be some more modern theaters in Las Vegas that can rival it.
There may be some more modern theaters in Las Vegas that can rival it.
We just stayed at the Aria in Vegas and it's showroom (and facilities) are pretty freak'in amazing. I have'nt been on the Oasis-but for a ship it also looks freak'in amazing!
Just one thing niggles, why only 16kts?
Pam
quote:Originally posted by lasuvidaboy:We just stayed at the Aria in Vegas and it's showroom (and facilities) are pretty freak'in amazing. I have'nt been on the Oasis-but for a ship it also looks freak'in amazing!
Late last year I enjoyed a behind the scenes, hardhat tour of City Center and was quite impressed. For someone that prefers smaller hotels, you sure picked a HUGE resort! LOL. At the time I was staying at Encore at Wynn and saw LeReve. Now that was an impressive theater (and show) but of course it was specially built and designed for one show, and a show that would run for years. That is why I mentioned Vegas as a place where theaters could certainly trump a cruise ship.
The theater on OASIS is about as sophisticated as I have experienced on shore or at sea (at least from a layman's eyes). There is the ability to produce a full scale Broadway production while also using the theater for a very technical production show. One with impressive sound and light, pyrotechnics, use of multiple stage lifts, lots of set changes from above, and the ability to have acrobatic performers above not only above the stage, but above the audience as well. Yes I'm sure there may be more impressive theaters on shore (at least larger), but only in Vegas and perhaps Radio City have I seen shows that are more technically impressive.
quote:Originally posted by lasuvidaboy: I guess living in a busy city our entire lives makes us prefer a more low-key vacation but one that is still fun.
You would think I would feel the same way. I have also lived in large cities my whole life, and was surrounded by people as a flight attendant for over a decade. That alone should put me off to people for life! None the less I still like going to Vegas and Disney, and large resorts and cruise ships don't bother me. I'm very much a city person and could never be happy living in a small rural town. I like having the availability of every convenience and entertainment option, even if I don't use them. I think that is partly why big cities and cruise ships are appealing to me. I'm also a person that generally likes to stay up late and sleep in. I've been that way my entire life even as a child. I will never be a natural early riser. It's just not in my DNA. This is why the availability of some nightlife is important to me. I'm not happy night after night of just sitting in my suite and watching TV. I want to get out, have some fun, mingle and meet new people. There were times on small ships where I was completely bored at night, and felt like the only person awake. I loved the personalized service, the great food and wonderful suite, but the nightlife was lacking for me. Yes a few nights would get a little rambunctious but you had to catch this and it wasn't the norm. The large ships still provide the option of having a fabulous suite where you can enjoy a night in, but the availability of having some fun if you decide to go out at 1am.
quote:Originally posted by eroller:[...]The theater on OASIS is about as sophisticated as I have experienced on shore or at sea (at least from a layman's eyes).
I am sure it's impressive for a ship but there are of course limitations - there is not much space and a ship is moving. Maybe you just did not go to the 'right' theaters ashore.
quote:Originally posted by eroller:[...] [....] Yes I'm sure there may be more impressive theaters on shore (at least larger),
Yes, the stages aboard ships - even Oasis of the Seas - are much, much smaller than the stage of a large theater ashore. It's of course comparing apples and oranges - theaters aboard ships do not have to be able to handle so many different productions with large, heavy stage sets.
quote:Originally posted by eroller: but only in Vegas and perhaps Radio City have I seen shows that are more technically impressive.Ernie
Oh, the shows in Las Vegas are a different story. These are indeed impressive stage (sets) custom built for certain shows - and e.g. KA is just amazing - but this is of course an exception even for Las Vegas. Such setups are hard to compare to e.g. the stage of an opera house. However, many opera houses have stages which are in many aspect far more sophisticated than most setups in Las Vegas. Therefore I would absolutely not agree that only Las Vegas or Radio City have technically more impressive stages.
quote:Originally posted by Ernst:Maybe you just did not go to the 'right' theaters ashore.
Maybe you just did not go to the 'right' theaters ashore.
Well I've been to most of the world class theaters in Philadelphia, NY, Washington DC, LA, Atlanta, London, and Miami.
I don't care for the opera so I would not go to a theater that only performs opera.
If the Lincoln Center, Hollywood Bowl, JFK Center for the Performing Arts, Dorothy Chandler Pavilion, Kodak Theater, Adrienne Arsht Center, Fox Theater, Radio City, Carnegie Hall, and Royal Albert Hall are not the "right" theaters, then I guess I am missing out.
quote:Originally posted by eroller:Well I've been to most of the world class theaters in Philadelphia, NY, Washington DC, LA, Atlanta, London, and Miami.I don't care for the opera so I would not go to a theater that only performs opera.If the Lincoln Center, Hollywood Bowl, JFK Center for the Performing Arts, Dorothy Chandler Pavilion, Kodak Theater, Adrienne Arsht Center, Fox Theater, Radio City, Carnegie Hall, and Royal Albert Hall are not the "right" theaters, then I guess I am missing out. Ernie[ 05-08-2010: Message edited by: eroller ]
I am afraid, you are missing out big time. (BTW - some of the venues you mentioned are not even theaters . )
quote:Originally posted by Ernst:I am afraid, you are missing out big time. (BTW - some of the venues you mentioned are not even theaters . )
Call it whatever you want. It has a stage and seats facing a stage, I call it a theater.
As for the opera, big YAWN. I'm not missing a thing.
quote:Originally posted by eroller:Call it whatever you want. It has a stage and seats facing a stage, I call it a theater.As for the opera, big YAWN. I'm not missing a thing.Ernie
Well, a concert hall is hardly a theater because there is actually no 'stage' (I know, strictly speaking you could call the podium for the orchestra in a concert hall a stage but this still does not make it a theater).
Theater is sadly not a strong point of the U.S. - to stay polite. It's actually very sad to see how little even large cities (beside some exceptions) have to offer (and no, Miami would not at all come to my mind in that context ). Since your postings indicate that you see the world very much from the perspective of the U.S. (fair enough) it's not surprising that you are not too familiar with these things. I guess that's also the reason why many cruise lines get away with what they offer as entertainment since they mostly cater to an U.S. audience.
This actually brings us back to how this 'discussion' started. For many people going on a cruise vacations is not so much about being on a ship or traveling from one port to the other. Mainstream cruise lines cater to an audience who do not have night clubs, bars or nice restaurants or theaters readily available at home. For many people going on a cruise is a lot about 'enjoying city life in a safe environment' - they prefer doing that to going to a 'real' city offering all these things. The larger and larger floating resorts are certainly following that trend and a lot of the essence of traveling by ship is sadly lost this way. Personally, I am not a big fan of this approach where one is 'supposed' to stays in such an artificial environment for a whole vacation - pushed to an extreme it actually IS disgusting for me in many ways.
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