Don't you think it is odd that NCL have decided not to build another F3 before they have even seen how successful she is?

A second F3 would of course be cheaper than the first, particularly given the fact that they paid a big surcharge of the abandoning the sceond F3. Mind you NCL are famous for saying one thing and doing another.

I hear that they would not be keen to use STX again, given the 'friction' and the fact that the ship was delved incomplete. (I understand the fires set the project back a little.)

I also heard That Bernard Meyer (the head of the Meyer Shipyard in Papenburg) was on board talking to the NCL management about future newbuilds.

They were successful in canceling the order for the second Epic, and they haggled with the yard about the price for Epic. They were hoping to get out of the deal and the yard was actually looking for another buyer for the partially built ship. No luck. NCL was stuck with this beast...but at least it would be only one.

In spite of these "in hindsight" design decisions (which every ship has), virtually every review I've read notes that the ship has the best nightlife at see, the dining options are great, the studios for singles are inspired, the villa complex is the most complete ship within a ship enclave, the decor is modern and tasteful. Almost all reviewers recommend the ship for families, under 50 types and the young at heart.

Epic is not a lemon... and I've read first year bookings are better than any NCL new ship ever.

I'm certain that NCL will place a newbuild order in the next 18 months... but for an evolved design. As is should be.

I wouldn't be surprised to see F4 include:
- Wave staterooms modified to include a traditional enclosed bathroom... hopefully one that still looks as cool as Epic's split bath design
- A much larger main theater (accomodating 1/3 to 1/2 of guests at one time)
- An expanded Sheehan's Pub concept - it's a hit
- An additional general purpose lounge (like Spinnakers)
- Studio cabins pushed in size to 125 sq. feet
- Veranda cabins given added width
- A more open main pool deck
- A forward view observation lounge
*** A more blended exterior design for the villa complex (don't think NCL isn't tired of hearing the carbuncle comments)

A refined version of Epic, built by the reliable Meyer Werft yard sounds fantastic.

It only makes sense for NCL to evolve the design. But it doesn't mean that Epic is a failure.

I really like most things about Epic. First ship in a long time (beside Oasis as well) that didn't elicit a yawn.... "same old design with new colors and surface treatments".

After about a month in service on the Caribbean run, after NCL can fine tune the product and the shipyard workers finish the ship, we should have a better understanding of the success or failure of EPIC. I don't think the ship will be a failure by any means, but perhaps there may be more opportunities compared to other new builds. Just a hunch.

NCL really needs to get this one right. They have pumped a ton of publicity into the ship and people's expectations are high. I have said this before, but it really doesn't matter how many entertainment and dining options there are if NCL doesn't get the basics right. That means passenger logistics, a certain level of service, cleanliness, and food quality and presentation. For me the logistics plays a huge roll. If I have to wait an hour and a half to board the ship then I already have a bad taste in my mouth before I even step foot on the ship. The same goes with the ports of call and disembarkation. Likewise I don't want to have to wait an hour to eat or find it impossible to locate a deck chair or find a quiet spot on deck. These are all basic things that NCL hasn't always been so good at in the past. I hope they will be with EPIC, as these are the things people will write about if they are not up to snuff, not what shows they saw.

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Originally posted by Dutch:
While I wouldn't evaluate food quality based upon a media trips, Paul Motter, Cruise Critic, Bart De Boer and Gene Sloan have all had very favourable things to say about the cuisine.

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Dutch, you are right that we cannot evaluate food quality based upon a very short media trip. It could well be of a higher standard than will be served to the public later on (I bet the catering bill per head is currently higher). Alternatively the food could also be worse due to new chefs, waiters and systems.

For the record I had some good food and some bad on board. In fact the 'Cirque Dreams Dinner' show provided one of the worst meals that I've EVER had at sea. This was not a wise thing to do when the show was full of Media: Steve Read, Douglas Ward (and me) to name a few. However the show was very good indeed, which may well make people forget the food quality.

[ 06-27-2010: Message edited by: Malcolm @ cruisepage ]

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Originally posted by Dutch:
While I wouldn't evaluate food quality based upon media trips, Paul Motter, Cruise Critic, Bart De Boer and Gene Sloan have all had very favorable things to say about the cuisine.

So far so good.

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I just took a look at Barts photos and they are by far the best that I have seen. It really gave me a good idea of what this ship looks like.

I like many of the public areas on this ship. I personally like the choice of colors that they used. The only negatives are the pool areas. I'm afraid that there will not be enough space. Also, what's up with the cheap balcony furniture in the Spa Suite cabins?

Love the Spice H2O and Great Outdoors area. Very nice.

Dare I say it reminds me of the Mirage Disco on REGAL EMPRESS, arguably one of the most hideous public rooms ever to go to sea!

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Originally posted by eroller:
Dare I say it reminds me of the Mirage Disco on REGAL EMPRESS, arguably one of the most hideous public rooms ever to go to sea!

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The 'circus' ceiling is almost flat and quite small, so not tent like at all. The walls are black and pretty sparce.

The room also seemed a little crowded to me - I was on a table on the edge of the circular performance 'space' and the performers occasionally brushed my chair. However the rooms works very well from an 'intimacy' point to view. The waiters did well to serve the food around the show. They also joined in occasionally. The show was very good!

The Manhattan Room does have a dance floor but the furniture is 'flexible'. There are often tables and chairs and/or buffet stations covering part or most of it. I suppose it depends on the rooms usage.

[ 06-27-2010: Message edited by: Malcolm @ cruisepage ]

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Originally posted by Malcolm @ cruisepage:
I had trouble getting a decent photo as it was so dark! The room does not really have any charm. When I first walked in I though "oh, is this it"?

The 'circus' ceiling is almost flat and quite small, so not tent like at all. The walls are black and pretty sparce.

The room also seemed a little crowded to me - I was on a table on the edge of the circular performance 'space' and the performers occasionally brushed my chair. However the rooms works very well from an 'intimacy' point to view. The waiters did well to serve the food around the show. They also joined in occasionally. The show was very good!

The Manhattan Room does have a dance floor but the furniture is 'flexible'. There are often tables and chairs and/or buffet stations covering part or most of it. I suppose it depends on the rooms usage.

[ 06-27-2010: Message edited by: Malcolm @ cruisepage ]

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Nope, Spiegel Tent does not look like an easy room to photograph. It doesn't look too comfortable either for a long performance. The pre-set menu sounds pretty awful, like something you would get at a cheap Vegas dinner show. Very little choice and no substitutions!

I agree with you Malcolm about The Manhattan Club. The stackable banquet chairs don't do it justice. I still think the room looks good, but it could have been so much more.

HOWEVER, there is a lot of competition these days and a lot of really nice ships. Epic has a number of major drawbacks that I predict will come to light once she enters regular service and reviews start circulating:

1. Tiny cabins (far smaller than standard cabins on other ships in her class. Yes, the "wave" design is cool, but this is a trick to make up for their size.)

2. Bathroom, or lack of one. (This will be a big problem for north americans...particularly families. At a time when cruise lines are competing more with land-based resorts, this very old-school nautical cabin design won't be an easy sell.

3. Overcrowding. (Many small venues provides choice, but it also creates traffic problems and congestion. RCI deals with this by having wide open spaces...Epic has virtually none. And with over 4000 pass, it could be a nighmare.)

4. Deck space. (Already on preview cruises people are saying its a problem. Imagine when the ship had double the passengers.)

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Originally posted by Atlcruiser:
Does anyone know how many passengers are aboard for the TA?

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2,500 - NCL say they will not operate her at full capacity until July/August - so book quickly!

It's very difficult to judge 'crowdedness', because on a short TA/Media cruise everyone is everywhere and hits every (free) bar until late each evening - everywhere can appear crowded.

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Originally posted by Malcolm @ cruisepage:
I was a little disappointed with some of Epic's rooms initially as the original artists renderings were drawn with a lot of artistic licence!

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Originally posted by Aad:

There should realy be a nice deck where one can look over the ocean.

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Add, views don't make money!

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Originally posted by Malcolm @ cruisepage:

At least the Voyager and Freedom classes have the 'Royal Viking Crown Lounge' offering views ans a partial prom deck..

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Actually the Voyager/Freedom Class have more than a partial prom deck. It's actually pretty fantastic. It goes all the way around the back with full ocean views, and in the front you walk up a level and can go all the way to the tip of the bow. They are excellent, although the flooring is not make of teak. My favorite part is the section that extends out over the sea by the dining room windows. That section is made of teak.

I always laugh when people say the Voyager/Freedom Class have no connection to the sea. Obviously people that say this have not sailed on these ships. They have some of the best outdoor decks and promenade decks of any ship.

Ernie

Promenade Deck

View from deck overhang

Deck overhang

[ 06-28-2010: Message edited by: eroller ]

quote:

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Originally posted by dmwnc1:

Reminds me of some of the artistic license taken with OASIS's renderings of Central Park and the Boardwalk.

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I think all cruise lines do this to a certain extent. The difference with OASIS is when you actually see the Boardwalk, Central Park, and Royal Promenade in person, you are not disappointed. They are amazing spaces even if not exactly as the renderings depicted.

What is much worse is when you see the space after the viewing the rendering and it's a total let down.

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Originally posted by eroller:
The difference with OASIS is when you actually see the Boardwalk, Central Park, and Royal Promenade in person, you are not disappointed.

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Exactly! Oasis stretched a few images, but when I saw Central park for real it was bigger than I imagined from the rendering - no human traffic jams!

quote:

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Originally posted by Malcolm @ cruisepage:
I was a little disappointed with some of Epic's rooms initially as the original artists renderings were drawn with a lot of artistic licence!

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I am really dissapointed with the way Cirque turned out. It looks cheap and very uappealing. The rendering makes the performance floor look big, and I remember when I saw the real thing for the first time I thought "This is a disaster waiting to happen", because the performance floor looks so small. Time will tell.....

Ernie

A few favorites.

OOSTERDAM

QM2

MAASDAM

SOVEREIGN OF THE SEAS

DISNEY WONDER