after a low-key delivery yesterday she sailed this afternoon from Monfalcone on her way to the UK

best regards
b. Joe

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Originally posted by Cunard Fan:
Carnivals answer to Norwegian Epic .....

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Oh come now, QE is much better looking that EPIC! LOL I actually think the ship looks quite handsome. I don't know why, but I almost prefer her looks over QV ... at least in this angle. As long as I don't see any rear end shots with the extended stern balconies I'm fine.

What is puzzling is why there are two less tender boats on QE compared to QV. This is really odd especially since QE has a higher capacity.

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Originally posted by eroller:

What is puzzling is why there are two less tender boats on QE compared to QV. This is really odd especially since QE has a higher capacity.

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Originally posted by desirod7:
Complaint 676b3:

It will be a fine cruise hotel. Cunard being the premium brand with the 'colorful eccentric' passenger complement could have taken her a step further in making her more unique looking than the mass and mid market Carnival and HAL ships.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Ernst:

Well, she has another funnel (which now seems to be the Cunard funnel) and another livery. How much further should they go in customizing the exterior and why? In which way is HAL more 'mid market' than Cunard? Aren't the 'colorful eccentric' passengers already aboard other ships for a long time (if they go on a cruise vacation at all)?

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Remember the QM2 is the greatest ship of the generation, albiet too much interior plastic.

QV and QE are nice enough, but their only unique feature is the cardkey access to the grill class lounges. One can take the HAL NA4 or Eurodam: same ship for less money and IMO better interiors.

I have sailed Cunard 3 times, and is a floating Fellini movie where by contrast, my Regal Empress experience, Carnival, NYC Veendam, and Ernie's recent NCL cruise is a floating Jersey Shore Reality Show.

Crossing on a Cunard ship is a unique experience of colorful cosmopolitan people you would not normally find on a $399 7 day Caribbean bus tour.

The Radiance class and the Mille class are the textbook example of differentiating 2 ships nearly identical below the waterline where one would never mistake one for the other. There is more than good answer to a problem. Lasuvidaboy reminds of of GM in the 1980's Ernst when you were a little boy, when the Chevy and the Caddy only shared different badges and trim. Look what happened.

Onno some years ago on CT did a few concept renderings of a unique and IMO improved superstructure on the Vista/Spirit hull form and was well received. One idea was a baby brother/sister to QM2.

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Originally posted by desirod7:

The Radiance class and the Mille class are the textbook example of differentiating 2 ships nearly identical below the waterline where one would never mistake one for the other.

Cunardival could have taken QE and QV further than the Carnival Spirit in a tux

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For what its worth, the Millennium and Radiance Class ships are completely different. Each hull was developed independently by its respective shipyard.

The Finnish built Atlantica / Spirit Class hull is also completely different from the Fincantieri built series that began with Zuiderdam.

Greetings Ben.

[ 09-30-2010: Message edited by: Maasdam ]

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Originally posted by Magic Pipe:

The Finnish built Atlantica / Spirit Class hull is also completely different from the Fincantieri built series that began with Zuiderdam.

Not that it matters for this discussion.

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Can you elabortate?

PS: here is the link of Onno's redesign, unfortunately they are broken after all these years.

http://www.travelserver.net/travelpage/ubb-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=006448

[ 09-30-2010: Message edited by: desirod7 ]

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Originally posted by Maasdam:
She looks good. There is a simmular picture with the Nieuw Amsterdam compare remind you NA have better deals but less or nothing of the colorful eccentric

picture from HALblog.

Greetings Ben.

[ 09-30-2010: Message edited by: Maasdam ]

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I'll be aboard in just over a month! I think NIEUW AMSTERDAM looks lovely, and definitely my favorite decorated HAL ship based on the pictures I have seen.

Regarding the exterior, I still prefer the QV and QE and here is why.

1. I like the Cunard funnel better. I never really cared for the stove pipe Vista funnels. They just never seemed quite in proportion to the rest of the ship. It would be interesting to see NA photoshopped with a solid single funnel and HAL logo.

2. Cunard uses the dark hull color one deck higher in the aft section than HAL does. I really think this makes a difference in diminishing the appearance of the bulked up aft end.

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Originally posted by eroller:

What is puzzling is why there are two less tender boats on QE compared to QV. This is really odd especially since QE has a higher capacity.

Ernie

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Originally posted by SSTRAVELER:

I think you got your answer right there .... the tenders likely hold less people than a lifeboat and with the extra capacity they needed more lifeboat space for passengers.

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Good point and I didn't think of that. I'm surprised they just couldn't make up the difference with inflatables and keep the two tenders?

I would imagine this ship will have to tender fairly often on her worldwide itineraries, so I wonder if four tenders will be enough?

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Originally posted by desirod7:

Remember the QM2 is the greatest ship of the generation, albiet too much interior plastic.

QV and QE are nice enough, but their only unique feature is the cardkey access to the grill class lounges. One can take the HAL NA4 or Eurodam: same ship for less money and IMO better interiors.

I have sailed Cunard 3 times, and is a floating Fellini movie where by contrast, my Regal Empress experience, Carnival, NYC Veendam, and Ernie's recent NCL cruise is a floating Jersey Shore Reality Show.

Crossing on a Cunard ship is a unique experience of colorful cosmopolitan people you would not normally find on a $399 7 day Caribbean bus tour.

Cunardival could have taken QE and QV further than the Carnival Spirit in a tux

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Two years ago I did the Atlantic tandem crossing to New York on out on QE2 and returned on QM2. The atmosphere on the QE2 was of course brilliant. However the QM2 was rather dull in comparison, I wouldn't associate that public with Fellini. It felt like the Daily Mail had a coupon offer for that crossing.

I've been twice on Eurodam and it's a comfortable well designed ship. Interiorwise it was not really my cup of tea. Personally I found it rather kitschy and having a closer look HAL seem to have cut costs on furnishings. Some parts looked quite cheap. But food and service were good and the Vista class ships are easy and comfortable to get around. I imagine that also to be the case on the Cunard vistas. Considering current SOLAS requirements I think most ships will look pretty plastic these days. On Cunard trying to recreate these ocean liner interiors gives it a bit of an Cunard Disney amusement park feeling

quote:

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Originally posted by desirod7:

Remember the QM2 is the greatest ship of the generation, albiet too much interior plastic.

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Isn't that a bit too early to tell.
For me personally 'fast and large' is a too simple minded approach to define 'the greatest ship'.

quote:

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Originally posted by desirod7:

QV and QE are nice enough, but their only unique feature is the cardkey access to the grill class lounges. One can take the HAL NA4 or Eurodam: same ship for less money and IMO better interiors.

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That might be true, since Cunard is indeed overestimated (and aren't you also 'guilty' of that with your assumptions about Cunard passengers?).
However, there is a market for that and Carnival is serving this market. If you want a different cruise experience you simply have to book another line - and you might even find a line to your taste within the Carnival group.

For some people it's hard to see that Cunard is just a part of Carnival because the name has a long history. However, there have been quite some discontinuities and bottle necks in the history of Cunard so it's actually very hard to define a 'Cunard tradition' that is different to what other cruise lines offer.

quote:

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Originally posted by desirod7:

Can you elabortate?

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STOP patronizing me! Why don't you cross on the QM2 or go back in time the the QE2 Winter Crossing Club, then tell me about Cunard passengers.

Simple minded about QM2 just because she is large and fast? Just because I do not have a PHD is physics does not mean I am dumb.

The QM2, and her project manager Gerry Ellis who graces this board without patronizing the other contributors shared what was going on under the sleek forward shear hull. Again I have sailed her twice, once in bad weather. Her engineering, planning, and design is anything but another cookie cutter cruiseship and the build cost to prove it. If QM2 were 90k tons she would still be great by virtue of her fine marine engineering.

QE3 and QV are given a hard time since they are a letdowm after the one-off Queen Mary 2.

Ernst, I strongly suggest you read the book, 'The Drama of the Gifted Child" by Alice Miller.

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Originally posted by Ernst:

That might be true, since Cunard is indeed overestimated (and aren't you also 'guilty' of that with your assumptions about Cunard passengers?).
However, there is a market for that and Carnival is serving this market. If you want a different cruise experience you simply have to book another line - and you might even find a line to your taste within the Carnival group.

For some people it's hard to see that Cunard is just a part of Carnival because the name has a long history. However, there have been quite some discontinuities and bottle necks in the history of Cunard so it's actually very hard to define a 'Cunard tradition' that is different to what other cruise lines offer.

Carnival simply uses this name to build a brand that's specializing on reenacting 'liner travel' aboard a contemporary cruise ship - that's all. One might like the Vista class or not but Carnival seems to like them. Why should they change a ship that's fine for them just for the sake of change? Most contemporary passenger ships are actually very similar these days - a forced changed to what Carnival considers to be an adequate design would be as bad as the tacky fake interiors of these ships.

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quote:

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Originally posted by desirod7:
[...]
STOP patronizing me!
[QB] [...]Ernst when you were a little boy [...]

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It is interesting that YOU complain about patronizing.

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Originally posted by desirod7:
[...]
Why don't you cross on the QM2 or go back in time the the QE2 Winter Crossing Club, then tell me about Cunard passengers.

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I actually have been on 'winter crossings' aboard QE2 and I have been aboard other 'Cunard' vessels too - no need to suggest that I have to go back in time for experiencing that (and please, stop patronizing me )

There were indeed some interesting people aboard QE2 for these crossing and I am curious (and a bit doubtful) whether QM2 will offer a similar atmosphere. Fortunately such an atmosphere can be found aboard other ships.

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Originally posted by desirod7:
[...]
Simple minded about QM2 just because she is large and fast?

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Well, yes. There is more to what makes a great ship. QM2 has certain abilities for the purpose she was built for - but this does not make her a superior ship in general. Other ships simply don't have to be that fast and can thus avoid the disadvantages that come with that. QM2 is a nice ship but only time will tell whether she is 'the greatest ship of a generation'.

quote:

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Originally posted by desirod7:
[...]
Just because I do not have a PHD is physics does not mean I am dumb.

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I never said that or implied that. Sorry if you feel like that.

quote:

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Originally posted by desirod7:
[...]
The QM2, and her project manager Gerry Ellis who graces this board without patronizing the other contributors shared what was going on under the sleek forward shear hull. Again I have sailed her twice, once in bad weather. Her engineering, planning, and design is anything but another cookie cutter cruiseship and the build cost to prove it.

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I still fail to see why she would be a worse ship if a sister (or sisters) were built.
Building a fast cruise ship (with balconies etc.) for the North Atlantic is of course an interesting engineereing problem and there are indeed not too many ships built for that purpose. However, also other projects like Oasis of the Seas were quite an effort from an engineering point of view. Of course, all that has nothing to do with whether a ship is 'the greatest ship of a generation' - and beside that it's a bit too early in the case of QM2 to 'conclude' that. Only time will tell.

quote:

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Originally posted by desirod7:
[...]
If QM2 were 90k tons she would still be great by virtue of her fine marine engineering.

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This is a contradiction in itself. You can't scale her down like that. The size of QM2 has actually advantages - it's easier to achieve what Cunard wanted to achieve with a ship of that size.

quote:

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Originally posted by desirod7:
[...]
QE3 and QV are given a hard time since they are a letdowm after the one-off Queen Mary 2.[...]

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Not every ship has to be as fast and as large as QM2. QM2 is built for a slightly different purpose - this does not make her a 'better' ship in general. In fact, she is an 'inferior' ship for e.g. the purpose QV and QE were built for (e.g. she is too large for the Panama canal). It's like saying that a screwdriver is a better tool than a hammer.

[ 10-01-2010: Message edited by: Ernst ]

quote:

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Originally posted by oslo dutch:

I've been twice on Eurodam and it's a comfortable well designed ship. Interiorwise it was not really my cup of tea. Personally I found it rather kitschy and having a closer look HAL seem to have cut costs on furnishings. Some parts looked quite cheap.

Reint

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I do agree and I do not agree with you. I think the Pinnacle bar is rather a disaster on the Eurodam more 1984 then 2008. Actually I said it to one of the officials that was in the bar (manager of the Rotterdam office) Happy on the Nieuw Amsterdam they did a total new design of the room rather then adopting the same. Fore the rest I found the Eurodam a good designed ship.

she is due to arrive in Gibraltar on next tuesday
(at the moment passing Palermo)

i do not really like her frontview:

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Ok so maybe Cunard Fan had a point! She is looking a bit "Epic" in this photo.

Ernie

[ 10-02-2010: Message edited by: eroller ]