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Originally posted by mec1:
...this debate has made me think about one thing and that is - why do cruise lines spend so much on decor/ artworks/ themed rooms and so on... we all take it completely for granted that any ship will feature superb decor (regardless of your own personal taste), quality carpets and leather and furniture and a lot of paintings, sculptures and other features. All open for criticism of course: but how many hotels boast striking decor, original masterpieces of art, notable contemporary sculptures or limited edition prints in their rooms? And yet in hotels, none of us even notice..... But on ships, we expect a beautiful and strikingly designed environment.

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[ 03-15-2005: Message edited by: Malcolm @ cruisepage ]

Onno

PS: the reason why cruise companies spend all that money on art is because it is the spare money not invested in good looking exteriors, good PR material and brochures and by giving their staff a very low salary!

[ 03-15-2005: Message edited by: Onno ]

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Originally posted by mec1:
Ernst

as usual you are talking bollocks. Name a single hotel in the world ( I can actually and it is the Bellagio in Las vegas) that can match the specially commissioned artwork on almost any ship in the world today? And, Ernst, if you don't know wha

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Originally posted by lasuvidaboy:
For years liners and cruise ships have been designed to convince passengers that they were in a luxury hotel as opposed to being on an ocean going ship. It makes many passengers feel more comfortable for the decor to resemble a land based building than a true ship. SS United States received negative reviews in the early 1950s because of her simple and in some cases sparse decor actually looked like a ship. Cruise ships/liners like finer hotels have featured original art, furnishings and fixtures as most passengers and guests have come to expect those luxurious design elements.

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lasuvidaboy, I don’t fully agree with your post.

What is the criteria for a ship to look like a ship? If I remember correctly Samuel Cunard invested money on the decoration of his first ship Brittania (and all other ships as well) so that they were comfortable for the passengers.

I wouldn’t say Big U looked more like a ship then the Normandie (to name a contrast) I would say Big U’s interiors were the result of function just like navy ships are. It has all to day with target groups. Liners/cruise ships don’t pretend to look like something other then a ship and a navy ship does not either look more like a ship. The target groups of liners /cruise ships expect imposing interiors, the target group of a navy ship expect functional interiors.

That is why big U’s interiors tend to be a mixture of both and clash with the expectation of the passengers (after all she was designed to be a troopship if the need ever arrived)

The only shift that occurred in the role of the interior decoration of today’s passengers ships, is that today’s ship aren’t trend setters anymore on interior design.

Onno

[ 03-15-2005: Message edited by: Onno ]

Ships are small cities.

Then Ernst comment that he needs no art on a land based hotel makes sense in a way. A city has it’s own museums, theatres and clubs so there would be no need for art in the hotel, but cities also have their own restaurants, so why would a hotel offer food to their guests?

I think the reason why land based hotels do not have high quality and expensive art on the wall because it simply is not a secure surrounding and the costs of ensuring the art would be too high. Ships are in nature secured and closed off objects (especially these days) so it would be less likely a guest would walk off the ship with a painting under his/her arms.

There is not a specific definition that says what and how a ship or hotel should be like, and I think that that is an interesting notion for architects (naval or land based) to play around with. Unfortunately rules and regulations lead to what we are offered today as hotels and ships and as a result that has become what we expect to see.

Onno (sorry for rambling on)

[ 03-15-2005: Message edited by: Onno ]

The high end of the express liners segment was very often designed as a 'showcase' of the best design wise the country had to offer.
It was also meant for the upper echelons of society, who were used to habit and live among beautiful things. Think "High Culture" vs. Pop or Mass culture (this is a discussion which crops now and then in cultural policy at large, and is now very hot in Belgium).

I think QE2 was the last ship designed with such aims in mind.

Since 1968 "High Culture" has received many blows, and with democratisation on many points, "lower", "mass", "pop"culture has crept in and has become "fashionable", and "accepted". Art meaning exclusively "high art" doesn't exist anymore.

That is why, I think, but am not quite sure, the culture of the rich, has become less vividly the last decades, and honestly, boring. The modern exciting contemporarry designs, or works of art at large, are not necessarily made any more by scions of the upper or middlelevels of society (which was ver often the case, or at least by people who lived among them).

There IS art in hotels, and I think more than on modern ships.

I am not a fervent hotel visitor, but it all depends on the kind of hotel you look for. You shouldn't expect much art in simple tourist class hotels or motels, or B&B's.

However, so out of memory (but having checked on the internet).
*the Hotel Negresco in Nice (which is indeed a "grand hotel" AND privately owned-which makes a difference) has a collection of art works both classic antiques and contemporary. Last summer there was a beautiful Niki de St-Phalle statue in the front garden.
*the Hotel Windsor in Nice (at 105 EUR a room in high season not the most expensive one on the cote d'azur) has its rooms each decorated by contemporary artists.
*the Art'otel in Berlin centre is "themed" on Andy Warhol, with prints of his every where.

There are certainly more, but these are since long on my wish list.

There are lot of contemporary B&B's (which have high prices) which are filled with antique furniture and art, or at least strive to be. Very often they advertise by "not standardised-rooms".

Experiences like the Cunard Heritage Trail, or the ship models and artefacts on board Olsen ships, are proper to these companies, but surely other hotels try to do the same with their own heritage. The Thermae Palace in Ostend has some murals, and showcase with plans and drawings and other things about its history.

Although not hotels, the Seaside Casinos of Knokke and Ostende have big commissioned murals by famous Belgian artists like Paul Delvaux and René Magritte.

The new central metro station in Athens is so filled with antiques it is a "mini National Museum". Metro stations in Brussels are themed on comic figures like Tintin. We in Antwerp have murals and bas-reliefs in the Underground - it all depends on the money.

I don't think you can say that cruise lines spend more on interior decoration and art, than land based hotels. IMO

I don't count things like the clearly commissioned "Josephine Baker Night Club" on the Carnival Valor, filled with black statues of Josephine Baker with yellow banana skirts as "art", not even "low art". This is "kitsh" (and now the discussion can start of Art can include kitsh). However such venues are clearly also on land, like the (late ?) HardRock Cafés with music memorabilia, or the new Cairo hot spot with President Nasser's 1957 Cadillac on the ceiling...

In the french documentary about the building of the QM2 there were interviews with the persons who selected the art onboard, the painters, and the art works themselves. Of course only through the medium of television i saw it, but it wasn't of that nature i said, wauw, i must sail on this ship to see this fabulous works of art !!

J

[ 03-16-2005: Message edited by: Johan ]

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Originally posted by lasuvidaboy:
I believe art is placed in a hotel or a ship as a diversion for guests/passengers to just enjoy (if they want to). Most people like to be surrounded by beautiful and or interesting art, furniture, fixtures etc. that are visually pleasing. The designers and architects have the uneviable task of selecting items that will please the largest possible audience. In regards to hotels in large cities offering their own restaurants, that is a simple one-they want people to spend money in the hotel.

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http://www.bellagio.com/pages/frameset_noflash.asp

The only things missing are a hull and the ocean!

The idea of a cruise is for one to two weeks out of the year we escape our normal grind, 4 walls, office, etc. and move into a fantasy land where we can feel like a movie star on a set, be stimulated by beauty, or be taken to a time and place outside of our middle class existence.

If a passenger feels "special" they will come back again.

Carnival is a fantasy escape for those that want more stimulation, where HAL by contrast is a spa like retreat for those who want less.