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Originally posted by Britanis:
When did Carnival become an American company anyway? Their registered headquarters is in Panama City, all of their ships are foregin built and flagged, they employ no American officers, and have substantial holdings in The Netherlands, Italy, and U.K. Their operational headquarters may be in Miami and a majority of their passengers may be American, but that's about it. Carnival is no more American than Sony or Daewoo.

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They are American as apple pie, majority owned by American's and run by American citizens. Sure they have an office in Panama or where ever for tax reasons, just like many American corporations have so-called headquarters in Bermuda and other places. Their true headquarters is in Miami, which is where the Chairman and CEO has his offices, and where all executive decisions are made. They are not governed by a headquarters in another country (such as P&O - UK; Crystal - Japan; ROC - Greece; etc.).

I guess they are American enough that P&O/Princess will have to cancel all the Aida Line calls at Cuba, due to American laws. The same thing happened when Carnival purchased Costa, all Cuba calls had to be canceled.

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Originally posted by Britanis
The takeover of P&O-Princess was the only way to ensure Carnival's continued dominance in the cruise industry. Why shouldn't the most intelligent and most ambitious be able to rise above the rest? If P&O Princess had come up with the "Fun Ship" concept 30 years ago, perhaps they would have been in a position to buy out Carnival. Those looking for variety and competition shouldn't dispair, who knows what the future may bring: perhaps a Festival/Royal Olympic/Louis merger, or continued expansion by Royal Caribbean, Star, and Disney will reduce Carnival's lead. Or, maybe whole new conglamorates will arise during the 21st century and absorb the current industry leaders.
Twenty years ago, could anyone have imagined the downfall of Kloster Cruise and Carnival's rise to total dominance? I doubt it.

If you go back to thirty years ago, you will find that none of the major players in the cruise industry back then still exist at all.

I don't see any reason to think that this cycle of change and growth will stop. We'll just have to wait until 2023 to see just how much the new Carnival Group impacts competition in the long run.

Finally, don't be sad about the death of the P&O-Princess name, after all its just a name. Maybe a new British cruise conglamorate will rise and buy out Carnival in thirty years time. You just never know.

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Originally Posted by Keitaro:I don't think there is anyway Carnival will colapse since they will be the most powerful corporation there is in the cruise industrie

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You may be right, but keep in mind that's exactly what people thought of the International Mercantile Marine Corporation. IMM totally controlled all shipping on the North Atlantic from 1902 onward, they bought out most of their competitors, and formed anti-competitive agreements with the rest. Then they collapsed in the mid 1920's.

Fourty years ago, Cunard was a shipping giant, with over 100 ships of all types; who could have predicted that by 2000 they would have a corporate fleet of just 5.

Kloster Cruise Ltd. was a cruise giatn in the 1970's and 80's, with Norweigan Caribbean, Norweigan Capricorn, Royal Viking, and Royal. Where are they now?

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Originally posted by Britannis
Fourty years ago, Cunard was a shipping giant, with over 100 ships of all types; who could have predicted that by 2000 they would have a corporate fleet of just 5.

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Originally posted by Keitaro:

I always thought that Cunard sold off their interest in the shipping business by getting rid of their cargo ships?

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Cunard had a split business of cruise in one spot and cargo in another spot in a nice split setup (lines used to own many lines they took over so it was easier this way if they want to sell one off or seem bigger).

Its the same way they operated way back like the others, remember cargo business was a HARD BUSINESS, the ending of transatlantic ships made many company's turn to cargo like Canadian Pacific Line, Hamburg Amerika Line, Matson Line, and so on. Its odd that the BIG cargo company's of the past died like many transatlantic companys, they never could compete with bigger and better crane's and large cargo holds. Some merged with others and don't exist like Blue Funnel Line, Palm Line and I heard Blue Star Line is not so well off since they stopped taking passengers or passenger cargo cruises with there NEW ships i don't care ! (but they are like the cunard of cargo cruises)

Cunard's last cargo lines was of common cargo and the other line was fruit cargo but do not know if they were advertised Cunard or Cunard Silver Line that they took over or another name of a former company they took over

Here is a Cunard ship i just added to my page i bet you can never guess, she is half cargo / half passenger ship... remember cargo ships only have like 15 -30 passengers in a one class 2nt class setup with dinner and other stuff with crew (like you are part of the crew but you don't work) and other stuff with crew/passenger but crews job is too the ship first and not your "comport" The ship below was with Cunard from 1951 - 1963.

Ðraikar

[ 01-14-2003: Message edited by: Ðraikar ]

The for'd funnel was a dummy and had the chartroom, radio room and Master's cabin. They were designed for 12 passengers with Silver line but Cunard did not carry pax on their cargo vessels and the accomodation was used by the officers.

Back on topic,
When will we start seeing changes made to P&O by Carnival ?

And the Brits havnt done anything wrong with Princess, or P&O, infact the opposite, its a bloody good business, one of the biggest and most well known cruise company's in the world, and thats exactly why Carnival wants them! Oh and because they dont want them to join with RCCI - beacause that would mean Carnival would actually have to compete!

To think P&O needed "rescueing" like Cunard did is just rediculous! P&O Princess is in the middle of a long term business strategy with a major shipbuilding and worldwide expansion program, including the creation of Ocean Village and the expansion of Aida, P&O and P&O Australia operations.

P&O Princess doesnt need to be bought by or merge with anyone, they are quite capable of pursuing their own operations independantly, they were simply joining forces with RCCI because they had compatible companies and it would ensure them a strong future and provide them with the muscle to match Carnival, it was a logical merger which would have allowed both companies to grow stronger while retaining their heritage.

Its clear the board of P&O Princess had no interest in dealing with Carnival but have been forced into a corner where they have no option, Carnival doesnt want to compete with a company of equal size and they will do anything to not only keep P&O Princess and RCCI apart but also to swallow up one of them!

You didn't see anyone in a hurry to buy Premier Cruises, or Renniassance, or United States Lines. When a company is profitable other companies what an piece of the action.

I oppose the Carnival/Princess combination anyway as they will have a monoply on Alaska.. what I think they should do is the regulators should restrict Carnival to the number of ships they can send to Alaska between the brands and force them to give up some of their overlapping Alaska based assets... as well as in the UK they should only be able to operate the Princess brand and not Carnival, same with In Germany one brand should be knocked out. That would be fair for all! As what would happen if Pepsi bought Coke, do you think that would ever win approval, doubt it as then they would all use the same bottles,same plants and lay off thousands as they integrated operations!

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Originally posted by gpcruisedude:
I oppose the Carnival/Princess combination anyway as they will have a monoply on Alaska.. what I think they should do is the regulators should restrict Carnival to the number of ships they can send to Alaska between the brands and force them to give up some of their overlapping Alaska based assets... as well as in the UK they should only be able to operate the Princess brand and not Carnival, same with In Germany one brand should be knocked out. That would be fair for all! As what would happen if Pepsi bought Coke, do you think that would ever win approval, doubt it as then they would all use the same bottles,same plants and lay off thousands as they integrated operations!

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