Cruise Talk: Letting standards slip

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Topic: Letting standards slip

Paddy
First Class Passenger
Member # 357

posted 02-26-2000 05:25 PM

In your experience, when cruise lines get a nice new ship do they let the standard set on their earlier ships fall. I am think in particualr of Airtours, as since they got the Sunbird, Carousel has had a few "mishaps".

Other lines I am thinking of are Carnival once they got their superliners, and Celebrity's Meridian once they got Century etc.

Posts: 763 | From: Belfast, Ireland | Registered: Aug 99 | IP: Logged

K&K
First Class Passenger
Member # 1040

posted 02-26-2000 07:22 PM

Paddy; I think that the hole cruise industry has slipped since the 70's & 80's. At the same time I also believe that the "cruisers" have also changed. I am not passing judgement I just believe that it is not such an elite group anymore. The lines find out that they can provide less charge a little more and still be full and they will continue until they start sailing half empty on a regular basis and I do not look for that

Posts: 446 | From: Sandpoint,Idaho,USA | Registered: Jan 2000 | IP: Logged

gohaze
First Class Passenger
Member # 586

posted 02-27-2000 10:02 AM

Hi..when companies get a new ship they draft in senior and experienced crew from their other ships to get it up and running, and get the glitches out. Once that is done they usually go back to the normal roundabout for manning.
I'm continuously amazed at how with all the rapid expansion in the industry, and the massive change from traditional seafaring nationality crews to "international", the standard has remained so high.
The dilution amongst the Officers in a company like RCI must be huge.
Still, it's very easy to notice the difference between a "happy" ship and an ordinary run-of-the-mill, and also where you have homogeneous crews in the different departments, ie. all the stewards are the same nationality.
Quality still counts over quantity.....peter

Posts: 1909 | From: Vancouver.BC | Registered: Sep 99 | IP: Logged

Ascendancy
First Class Passenger
Member # 840

posted 02-28-2000 02:23 PM

It's distressing, for sure. I only hope it doesn't slip anymore. Although, I think I would still cruise with just average service.
I have grown accustomed to just average service at any restaurant. I still like to eat out.
As long as they have bands and the fun party atmosphere, I'll cruise, whether I get good or average service and quality.

Posts: 354 | From: Aurora, CO | Registered: Oct 1999 | IP: Logged

Malcolm @ cruisepage
Cruise Director
Member # 301

posted 02-28-2000 03:15 PM

I'm not experienced enough to judge if standards are slipping over the years...but I'm sure that you are all correct. It hard to imagine that it is possible to maintain standards as the ships get bigger and bigger.
However, more people are Cruising that ever before, so the cruise lines are doing something right! The mass market is obviously more interested in an experience on a floating 'Las Vegas' type of resort than silver service.

Fellow Brit's will recall that we recall the popularity of Butlin's 'Holiday Camps'...the Cruise vacation would seem to be the modern version?

Posts: 19210 | From: Essex (Just Outside London) | Registered: A Long Time Ago! | IP: Logged

Wendy
Just Boarded
Member # 1031

posted 03-06-2000 03:59 PM

I wonder if it isn't the same phenomenon we've seen on the airlines. Used to be, you would dress up to fly somewhere and you'd get drinks and a meal. Now, its more like taking the bus - screaming kids, people who don't bathe, etc. (Sorry to sound like a snob) The cruise lines may just be going for the mass market and they'll pack us in like sardines, treat us awfully, and expect us to take it - just as we have from the airlines.

Posts: 9 | From: Annapolis, MD USA | Registered: Jan 2000 | IP: Logged

JDCasey
First Class Passenger
Member # 1065

posted 03-08-2000 08:38 AM

I hate to date myself with this expression but "RIGHT ON!!! WENDY"

Posts: 48 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Feb 2000 | IP: Logged

topgun3
Just Boarded
Member # 1085

posted 03-08-2000 11:28 AM

This thread is hitting right on the nerve center. The cruise experience today in no way compares with the seventies and eighties.Those who have cruised only over the last ten years dont have a basis for comparison. Both ships and passengers have changed radically.
Having said this I remember my dad saying "things aren"t as good as they were in the good old days". oops.
PS My parents took me as a kid in the fifties to Billy Butlins. Do they still exist?

[This message has been edited by topgun3 (edited 03-08-2000).]

Posts: 9 | From: Burlington, Ont, Canada | Registered: Feb 2000 | IP: Logged

steffi
Just Boarded
Member # 1146

posted 03-08-2000 05:10 PM

I am taking my first cruise this May.. It is sad to think that Cruising is going mainstream.. because it will tend to go down in service...and not treat their customers with that special touch.
I am young still.. and I bet my generation is highly responsible for booting the "gentleman/gentlewoman era out the door. but it does not mean that we want it to go away.

I do hope that there are cruise lines that understand that I am in it for the more upscale sophistication.(Oh wow.. and I spelled the word wrong too I bet).. and do not want to see it go away. So I have to pay more, who cares.. but is there any lines you would recomend that seem to want to keep the "good ol'days around" and not bend to the wims of money that they throw away the specialness of why some cruise?

I am planing on going on Celebrity cruise because it looked more relaxed, and less party. My husband and I hate roudy parties. and we dont hate chilren, but we dont like them rug rats running around wildly.. like I heard about on one cruise line.. (sorry if I offended anyone.) Would you say celebrity tries to keep some "charm" and what other cruises do keep up the good work?
I plan on making cruises my regular vacation if I like it this time.. and I want that high service.
(Note: this is my first time posting to these boards.. so please be gentle with me. )

Posts: 3 | From: Bellevue, Wa, USA | Registered: Mar 2000 | IP: Logged

MagnmPI
First Class Passenger
Member # 299

posted 03-08-2000 06:05 PM

Hello Steffi,
Yes the major companies are catering to a large segment of the public and if you compare yesterdays prices with todays inflation rate cruising has become a more affordable vacation. If you like traditional cruising with highly personal service try Seabourn Cruise Line, Cunard, Crystal Cruises, Silversea Cruises and Renaissance Cruises to name a few. These companies rarely disapoint.

Hey topgun what's Billy Butlins.

Posts: 545 | From: San Francisco Bay Area | Registered: Aug 99 | IP: Logged

K&K
First Class Passenger
Member # 1040

posted 03-08-2000 06:16 PM

Steffi; Do not take what I said the wrong way. I think the Cruize lines do treat there customers with that special touch, just that the touch is not as special as it used to be!
We still very much enjoy cruizing and believe it is an experience you will get nowhere else.
Perhaps it is due to dilution of the industry (with more and bigger ships) that the staff although very good not as good as 80's. My main complaint is the Cruize director and staff. I do not believe nor have I seen that they are as good as they once were. There are still good ones but not as many and not as good as in the past! Where are you going (what islands). I am sure you will have a time of your life

Posts: 446 | From: Sandpoint,Idaho,USA | Registered: Jan 2000 | IP: Logged

steffi
Just Boarded
Member # 1146

posted 03-08-2000 08:05 PM

K&K- I do know what you mean though.. that mint on the pillow... the hello... the waiter making an extra effort to do something for you that is special.. the other guests behaving in a certain unspoken manner.. ??

I am going to the West Caribbean through the Century ship..
It is good to note that cruises are still wonderful.. and I should not be disappointed with what I do get. I will look at the other cruises too.. for next time.. I can feel it in my bones.. I think I was made for cruise vacations.
and I can now agree (if the cruise is good) to a world cruise like my husband wanted..

Thanks for the comments
Steffi

Posts: 3 | From: Bellevue, Wa, USA | Registered: Mar 2000 | IP: Logged

Scottylass
First Class Passenger
Member # 420

posted 03-09-2000 02:52 AM

MagnmPI,

Billy Butlin owned a whole range of Holiday Camps all over the UK in the 50's through the early 90's. They were very large and had a theme type park on site, which was free along with the accommodation. Maybe thats where Walt Disney got the concept, he borrowed it from "Billy."

To: Topgun3
I just watched a Holiday Program on TV called Scottish Passport, which featured the camp at Ayr, it and I am sure many others have been taken over by another company, I forget the name right now and has been fully refurbished, nicer chalets etc, trying to make it a more upmarket product. They have done away with the day trippers etc....
It looks good for families. So they are still there Topgun3 but maybe in a different form.

Back to the subject, I have only cruised since 1995 and have noticed some differences since then but I still think it is a good product.

Posts: 648 | From: Stirlingshire, Scotland | Registered: Jul 99 | IP: Logged

topgun3
Just Boarded
Member # 1085

posted 03-09-2000 04:56 PM

Thanks Scottylass for the info.
Magnum PI. To expand a little on the subject and its relationship to cruising, the following may help.
Billy Butlin may possibly be the patron saint of modern day cuising style.
In the late forties England was left with a large number of military training sites. During wartime, young Brits were conscripted and spent 6-8 weeks at these camps learning how to do the most horrible things to their enemies. They were then shipped out to do their best to ruin the day for any Germans or Japanese that they ran into.
After the war, Billy Butlin, an entrepreuner bought up these camps and turned them into "holiday Camps" for the the working class who could not afford any upscale type of vacation, The concept was highly successful.
See the similarity to cruise ships:
"Chalets" were built on the facilities accommodating two or four campers. These were the size of todays inside or outside cabins.
Mess halls were changed into dining rooms with early and late sittings.
Large drill halls were rebuilt with dance floors with big band entertainment each night. The halls also had stages where entertainers and jugglers put on their acts.

During the daytime the camp offered nonstop alternative entertainment. This included pool activities such as the belly flop contest, knobbly knee contest etc.
The whole thing was pulled together by an entertainment director and staff.
The parallel between what Butlin started and todays cruising menu is uncanny, even up to the usual British cruise Director.

Posts: 9 | From: Burlington, Ont, Canada | Registered: Feb 2000 | IP: Logged

Steve Read (sread)
First Class Passenger
Member # 788

posted 03-09-2000 08:11 PM

Nice one, Topgun3! What a superb summary of a great British institution. It's easy to knock Butlin's Camps, but he made holidays possible for hundreds of thousands of people. So-called "budget" cruises do the same today ... introducing the holidays we Cruise Talk-ers love, to people who otherwise might never consider them.

Posts: 926 | From: Locksbottom, Kent, England | Registered: Jul 99 | IP: Logged

Terri Lee
First Class Passenger
Member # 942

posted 03-09-2000 08:46 PM

Steffi....

Maybe you should try the Holland America Line for the kind of cruise you seem to be looking for.

I for one,always sail with them. The clientele is usually fairly well-heeled and I would say that 98% are more than approachable and very friendly....in other words..mature!!

There is always plenty to do on board without it having a "party atmosphere"...sure, they do cater for disco party animals but that is always VERY LATE and in the CROWS NEST on the top deck,away from everything. Maybe you would like one of their Big Band cruises?Those cruises bring out the best in the people,all very friendly etc,could be the effect of the music.It is very infectious!

Anyway,my point is,on a HAL ship you know that you will be well looked after....and BTW I have never known or seen any trouble with kids.The ones that I have seen have always been very well behaved....of course,there could be an exception....

That's my two-pennyworth!
TL

Posts: 292 | From: Burlington Ontario Canada | Registered: Dec 1999 | IP: Logged

Mercy
First Class Passenger
Member # 322

posted 03-10-2000 10:04 AM

I really think it comes down to training of the cruise staff. I have always been happy with Celebrity. But tried Carnival twice. WOW what a difference. Both times on Carnival the staff was very uptight and nervous, especially the dining room and in the buffet area. One bus boy was complaining to me about his awful job. I told him he is lucky he doesn't work for Celebrity. He would have to carry our tray to a table for us. He didn't believe me!
I think it is amazing that they find enough people to keep all the ships staffed. Are the ships always staffed as they state. Or, are they understaffed on some sailings and you never here about it? I also noticed that the waiters, busboys etc. didn't speak English very well at all on the Carnival ships. It was really hard to understand them.

Posts: 697 | From: Stanwood, Wa. USA | Registered: Sep 99 | IP: Logged

JDCasey
First Class Passenger
Member # 1065

posted 03-10-2000 10:58 AM

It is the unnoticed things that makes the biggest differences. On the most recent cruise I went on something in the dinning room was not quite right. It took a while to identify the culprit. It was the noise level. In earlier cruises you would never hear a sound of china, glassware or silver. With bus stations in the dinning room there was always a steady stream of sounds comming from these partitioned areas. Another piece of the puzzle was the way meals were served. For your main course, fresh plates were placed in front of you then you were served. Each portion was to your desire. Your entree was never placed in front of you complete. These little touches taken in total made a world of difference.

Posts: 48 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Feb 2000 | IP: Logged

MagnmPI
First Class Passenger
Member # 299

posted 03-10-2000 04:22 PM

Thanks topgun and Scottylass...those "camps" do sound very similar to todays cruise experience. I'll have to keep my eye out for movies and documentaries based on these vacations, sounds interesting.

Posts: 545 | From: San Francisco Bay Area | Registered: Aug 99 | IP: Logged

topgun4
Just Boarded
Member # 1149

posted 03-10-2000 04:57 PM

Life is getting tiresome.I keep getting locked out and have to reregister. Am I getting a message? I am now up to topgun 4.
Magnum, thanks for your interest.
Is it possible that we could buy up some of the old Holiday Camps.
They could be placed on a very large platform designed to rock like a wave motion.
Consider the possibilities.
No engines, no fuel and no port taxes.
Just dont let Carnival in on this.

Posts: 3 | From: Burlington, ont, Canada | Registered: Mar 2000 | IP: Logged

Paddy
First Class Passenger
Member # 357

posted 03-10-2000 06:24 PM

The parallel between Butlins and cruise lines is spot on. You start off with one line doing budget cruises for the people who spend their annual fortnight in Playa de las Americas or Torremolinos or Magalluf, and it is great. They buy old ships (Nordic Prince, Ausonia, Emerald etc.) and these customers love them. Then the market gets swamped with "me-too" rivals. Same with Butlins - now we have Haven, Centre Parcs blah blah blah. (Sorry to the non brits who haven't a clue what we are talking about). These rivals bring more customers who tell their friends and soon everyone wants a cruise. Cheap lines buy old ships from dear lines, dear lines buy new ships.
This is the simple evolution that is so often seen in the tourism-industry. It is unstoppable. However, if u have loads of money to spend, go with the lines that guarantee perfection...If not, sit back and enjoy your vacation.

Posts: 763 | From: Belfast, Ireland | Registered: Aug 99 | IP: Logged

gohaze
First Class Passenger
Member # 586

posted 03-10-2000 07:01 PM

Hi..JDCasey mentions the difference in service in the Dining room and that probably sums up the whole subject. "Silver service" v. "Plate service". With the old silver service it took more people to do it both in the galley and the dining room where the waiters could not serve so many people in the time frame of two sittings. Today I prefer the plate service when it is done properly in the galley, that is that it must be properly and attactively arranged and made to look appetizing. Half the waiters today wouldn't even have a clue how to do that anyway....peter

Posts: 1909 | From: Vancouver.BC | Registered: Sep 99 | IP: Logged

CTrail
First Class Passenger
Member # 64

posted 03-10-2000 08:14 PM

I guess my only reply to all of the crying is should we go back to two classes of passengers, those that have hundreds of thousands to spend on a single cruise and those that have to stoke to boilers. Things might be slipping but I can't think of a better way to spend a week or two every now and then. In the fifties you would pay between 900 and 2500 dollars per person for a transatlantic sailing 8-9 days. Inflation would now put that at about 8000 to 22000 dollars a week per person and many people on this site are complaining about a 5 dollar drink. We could certainly get rid of a lot of ships this way. A lot of cruise goers as well.

Usually the only good thing about the good old days is our selective memory of what it was really like.

Just look at those great TV shows of the 50's and 60's. We see them now and most look pretty sad by todays standards.

It is nice to reminise but don't try to resurrect.

Haveagreatcrybutdon'tgiveupcruisin'

Posts: 332 | From: Kitchener, ON Canada | Registered: Apr 99 | IP: Logged

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