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» Cruise Talk   » Cruise Lines   » Paradise is Smoke Free - Carnival Official (Page 1)

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Author Topic: Paradise is Smoke Free - Carnival Official
Terry
First Class Passenger
Member # 448

posted 12-10-2000 09:11 AM      Profile for Terry   Email Terry   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Carnival are enforcing their no-smoking policy on PARADISE with no mercy. Do you think this is going to far?

======
Sunday, December 10, 2000, 12:00 a.m. Pacific

Commentary
Vacation goes up in smoke as cruise line enforces rule


by Eileen Ogintz
Special to The Seattle Times
Some rules are not meant to be bent. My family learned that the hard way.

As many scattered families have done, we chose a cruise ship as a family reunion site. We booked 30 relatives on a Thanksgiving voyage aboard Carnival Cruise Lines' Paradise.

The fact that the Paradise is a smoke-free ship - the only one afloat - appealed to our group.

The ship was clear about its "zero tolerance" policy. Not only could a passenger caught smoking be fined $250, but for merely possessing "smoking materials" they could be forced to leave the ship in a foreign country and have to pay their own way home.

Our smoking nightmare on the Paradise started four days into the Caribbean cruise as our family was finishing Thanksgiving dinner and celebrating two wedding anniversaries.

After dinner, my 16-year-old son, Matt Yemma, and his older cousin, Chris Yemma, came to tell us that the ship's security officers wouldn't let them into their shared cabin.

It seems a smoke detector had gone off - though no one was in the cabin - and a room steward had found matches in the cabin - though none had been lit. (I remembered I'd innocently given the boys the matchbook so they'd have the address of a restaurant where we had planned to meet the day before in port.)

During a cabin search there was no scent of smoke, but a pack of cigarettes was found in my nephew's suitcase.

We pleaded with the ship officials, but there would be no reprieve from the cruise line's policy.

My nephew, his father (my husband's brother), my son and my husband were forced to leave the ship as soon as we docked the next day in Jamaica. "We were hustled off the ship down a back elevator by security officers into a cab. Everyone was staring at us," said my husband Andy Yemma, a non-smoker.

From the beginning, my embarrassed nephew readily acknowledged the cigarettes were his. He had come to the cruise ship straight from college and had already checked his bag by the time he learned of the non-smoking policy.

He said he was reluctant to tell his parents he'd brought cigarettes and didn't know what to do with them. He swears he never smoked on board. He said he didn't realize the dire consequences of that one pack of cigarettes buried amid his socks.

"Everyone always says they weren't smoking," said Miles Willis, the ship's hotel director.

Ship personnel, we learned later, are constantly on the lookout for those violating the rules.

"People have to realize we take this very seriously," said Willis.

Carnival officials say four to six people are sent home each month - at their own expenses - for violating the no-smoking policy. Earlier that week, another passenger and her teen-age son were kicked off the ship. On one earlier week, five passengers and 15 friends and relatives had been asked to leave the ship in St.Thomas.

"In order to effectively insure that the integrity of the smoke-free environment is maintained, the policies must be strict and the penalties severe," explained Carnival President Bob Dickinson.

"If we don't treat every violator in exactly the same way, the concept would be impossible to effectively manage," Dickinson said. (However, while Carnival continues to observe its hard line, its officials now say it is re-evaluating its non-smoking policy.)

Carnival Paradise passengers - even the kids - must sign a contract to abide by the no-smoking policy. Security guards X-ray bags and confiscate cigarettes and cigars when passengers return to the ship after visiting ports. There are reminder signs everywhere.

Many passengers choose the Paradise because it is smoke-free.

"I'm allergic to smoke," explained Sylvia Mueth, who was traveling with her extended family from Illinois.

"We didn't want the kids to be around smoke," added Lisa Della-Penna, a North Carolinian who was cruising with her husband and two children.

But both cruise experts and passengers who laud the policy are surprised by the severity of Carnival's policy.

"It's a bit much to fine you $250 and make you leave for having a pack of cigarettes. We're not talking about an illegal substance," said Anne Campbell, editor of an online cruise magazine, cruisemates.com.

"If you pick the Paradise, make sure everyone - especially the teens - understands the consequences," she warned.


Matt and Chris and their dads had some good talks about family while they waited for the rest at the dock in Miami two days later.

Their grandparents took their side. But that won't make up for the family time we didn't have on board ship or for all the missed memories.


Eileen Ogintz writes a syndicated travel column, 'Taking the Kids.'

=====

Terry Donegan


Posts: 391 | From: Brandon, Norfolk, UK | Registered: Aug 99  |  IP: Logged
Paddy
First Class Passenger
Member # 357

posted 12-10-2000 10:17 AM      Profile for Paddy   Email Paddy   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
That is absolutely ridiculous. I am thoroughly shocked and appaulled. The fine is perfectly reasonable in my eyes, but to kick you off the ship??? It must me like having your person searched in a non-smoking restaurant and being found with a pack of cigarettes, then being taken out and shot repeatedly between the eyes. It makes me sick. What about you duty free cigarettes that you buy on the plane on the way to the ship. What happens to them? Is it just my imagination, or has America gone a bit mad on this whole smoking thing???

Paddy.


Posts: 763 | From: Belfast, Ireland | Registered: Aug 99  |  IP: Logged
K&K
First Class Passenger
Member # 1040

posted 12-10-2000 11:10 AM      Profile for K&K   Email K&K   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
That is way beyond mad! Please do not judge all Americans by this action. I think the fine is quite reasonable and maybe if you were smoking to be let off the ship but for just having "smoking materials" no way. I would think maybe magnmpi or a few of the laywers might have some insight into search and siezure laws. Also the children signing a contract. Kevin
question: How does posession of smoking materials invade or degrade a smoke free enviornment?

[This message has been edited by K&K (edited 12-10-2000).]


Posts: 446 | From: Sandpoint,Idaho,USA | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged
jean elmore
First Class Passenger
Member # 1192

posted 12-10-2000 01:02 PM      Profile for jean elmore     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
you are right Paddy, they have gone completely mad, posession of and use of are totally different, I think there might be lawsuits on the horizon, it all smacks of too much "big brotherism" to me.......jean
Posts: 68 | From: obetz oh. usa | Registered: Mar 2000  |  IP: Logged
jwine
First Class Passenger
Member # 634

posted 12-10-2000 01:30 PM      Profile for jwine   Email jwine   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I applaud Carnival for having the guts to enforce their rules. If you didn't intend to smoke, why would you carry cigarettes with you? Just to have as a security blanket? I don't think so, you carry them aboard ship to smoke them. It's not like once you get on someone says, you can't smoke on this ship. You sign a contract before you get on, if you don't understand what you are signing than you should ask someone to explain the rules to you. You want to smoke, don't go on that ship, there are many, many other ships to go on. No staff is allowed to smoke and when the ship was being built, none of the workers were allowed to smoke. What part of NON-SMOKING ship don't people understand?
Posts: 223 | From: Cincinnati, OH USA | Registered: Apr 99  |  IP: Logged
Paddy
First Class Passenger
Member # 357

posted 12-10-2000 01:56 PM      Profile for Paddy   Email Paddy   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
jwhine, what exactly is the problem of having a solitary box of unused cigarettes in your own case if there is no intention of smoking them. Maybe they are there to smoke in the airport beofre a long flight home. Frankly its the same as having a pack of cigarettes in your carry-on baggage on a plane. If you are a 5-packet a day addict then don't go on the Paradise, go on a ship where you will be welcomed with open arms, like any Costa ship, but if you like an occasional cigarette, in permitted areas, why not carry some with you?
I do agree with you in applauding their stance on smoking, but being in posession of a legal substance that breaks no SOLAS regualtions etc? Puh-lease!

Paddy.


Posts: 763 | From: Belfast, Ireland | Registered: Aug 99  |  IP: Logged
Malcolm @ cruisepage
Cruise Director
Member # 301

posted 12-10-2000 02:14 PM      Profile for Malcolm @ cruisepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Paddy:
...what exactly is the problem of having a solitary box of unused cigarettes in your own case if there is no intention of smoking them.

Can 'smokers' really be trusted to not smoke on a cruise? After all they are addicted to one of the most powerful drugs know to man.

Some smokers manage to smoke in every other non-smoking environment, including Aircraft toilets, so they would have little conscience about a secret smoke in their cabin!

OK, most smokers can probably refrain for a few hours, even a 9 hour transatlantic, but how many smokers could refrain for an entire weeks cruise?

If someome has cocaine in their luggage at JFK, but says they had no intention of using it until they leave the country - is that O.K?

I realise that Ciggarettes are not an ilegal substance, but Ciggaretts effectivly illegal on the 'Paradise'.

If you can't kick the habit, don't take the ship!


Posts: 19210 | From: Essex (Just Outside London) | Registered: A Long Time Ago!  |  IP: Logged
jwine
First Class Passenger
Member # 634

posted 12-10-2000 03:06 PM      Profile for jwine   Email jwine   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Paddy-if your not going to smoke, why carry the cigarettes on a ship that has a regulation against it? If you want to smoke, cruise on any of the 100 or so other ships that allow it, not on the one that it is not allowed on! If you have the cigarettes in your possession on the ship you are going to sneak a smoke, you know it I know it. Apparently the kid did try because his smoke alarm went off. That is what is wrong with the world today - no one is held accountable when they do something wrong, it's always someone elses fault. In this case it wasn't the kids fault he brought cigarettes on a ship and signed a contract saying he did not have any and would not smoke, it is now Carnivals fault for having such a rule. Again, I applaud Carnival for having the guts to enforce their rules.
Posts: 223 | From: Cincinnati, OH USA | Registered: Apr 99  |  IP: Logged
Paddy
First Class Passenger
Member # 357

posted 12-10-2000 03:10 PM      Profile for Paddy   Email Paddy   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Malcolm, I don't really see your argument. (A)Why would a smoker (i.e several packs a day) choose the one non-smoking ship when he can take any of the other hundreds of ships and smoke to his heart's content.
(B)There is a difference to a non-smoking flight and a non-smoking week-long cruise in the fact that on a cruise the smoker does not go a whole week with out a cigarette as he can go ashore and smoke.
(C) You're not allowed to drink you own alcohol (pre-bought) in the ship's lunges, yet you can surely keep your duty free drink in your cabin.

Paddy.


Posts: 763 | From: Belfast, Ireland | Registered: Aug 99  |  IP: Logged
CTrail
First Class Passenger
Member # 64

posted 12-10-2000 03:45 PM      Profile for CTrail     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Paddy, on most ships it is against ship policy to keep your duty free liquor in your cabin or to bring it on board from a foreign port. People sneak it in but it still is against policy. At least there is no lingering after effect.

Smoking on the other hand leaves a definite odour in the cabin that can be noticed days after the occurrence.

Of all the cruise ships in the world, there is only one non-smoking cruise ship. I hope after a policy review Carnival ups the fine to $1000 and maintains the policy of putting the offenders off the ship at the next port, with the return at their own expense, as it is now.

Paddy, why would a non-smoker want to buy duty free cigarettes.

You know the policy when you got the tickets, you know the consequences, and you have to sign the form before getting on board.

This young man is in College, he is not a kid, why didn't he just destroy the cigarettes and flush them. If he was keeping'em, chances are he was going to try an smoke'em.

Go Carnival Yeah, Yeah, Yeah.

Don'tsmokeonParadise!!!

Peter


Posts: 332 | From: Kitchener, ON Canada | Registered: Apr 99  |  IP: Logged
Malcolm @ cruisepage
Cruise Director
Member # 301

posted 12-10-2000 03:48 PM      Profile for Malcolm @ cruisepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I don't know if the kid did actually did smoke onboard or not. However, by the sounds of it plenty of folks have tried - and i'm sure some were caught red handed!

I'm sorry Paddy and all, but even on a 'non-smoking' ship there will be smokers aboard who try to smoke - why, I've no idea?


Posts: 19210 | From: Essex (Just Outside London) | Registered: A Long Time Ago!  |  IP: Logged
Paddy
First Class Passenger
Member # 357

posted 12-10-2000 03:51 PM      Profile for Paddy   Email Paddy   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
CTrail, in response to your question, a non-smoker buys duty free cigarettes to give as present to people who smoke.

Paddy.

P.S Can I just mention that I am not a smoker and don't condone it in non-smoking areas but I don't condone putting people off a ship in a 3rd world country simply for having something that would make it slightly possible to break the rules.


Posts: 763 | From: Belfast, Ireland | Registered: Aug 99  |  IP: Logged
Paddy
First Class Passenger
Member # 357

posted 12-10-2000 04:43 PM      Profile for Paddy   Email Paddy   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I agree Malcolm, there will be people who smoke when they aren't suppoesed to. And fining them is "fine", and I would encourage greater amounts than $250. And indeed if someone is actually cought smoking indded take action, but if there is only a packet of cigarettes, and no actual evidence of smoking on the ship, it really isn't acceptable to put people of it, at least if they haven't been caught with them once before and been told to remove them, only to be found with them again.

Paddy.


Posts: 763 | From: Belfast, Ireland | Registered: Aug 99  |  IP: Logged
Ðraikar
First Class Passenger
Member # 1153

posted 12-10-2000 05:39 PM      Profile for Ðraikar   Email Ðraikar   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Well, I smoke and I know im NOT going on that ship.
Posts: 1710 | From: USA, New York | Registered: Mar 2000  |  IP: Logged
Malcolm @ cruisepage
Cruise Director
Member # 301

posted 12-10-2000 05:54 PM      Profile for Malcolm @ cruisepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
You are right Paddy, they should not put the guy off. They should have locked the accused in a cell in the hold of the ship, without food, water or evening entertainment, until he confessed his crime.

In fact they should give folks a blood test in the embarkation hall to see if they had nicotine in their blood stream! Anyone who failed should be fined and sent home without a refund. Anyone actually caught in the 'act' while onboard should be flogged publicly on deck.

Full spead ahead, Mr.Christian!



Posts: 19210 | From: Essex (Just Outside London) | Registered: A Long Time Ago!  |  IP: Logged
Malcolm @ cruisepage
Cruise Director
Member # 301

posted 12-10-2000 05:58 PM      Profile for Malcolm @ cruisepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Did you know that the Carnival newbuilds will be the first ships to have on board 'Court Rooms'? The staff will include a fully qualified Judge, with the Carnival crew forming the Jury. There will be a 1000 seat public Gallery with sessions several times per sea day, and an evening session while in port.

Additionally, a full correction centre, in the bows of the ship, will also be a featured.

[This message has been edited by Malcolm (edited 12-11-2000).]


Posts: 19210 | From: Essex (Just Outside London) | Registered: A Long Time Ago!  |  IP: Logged
Barryboat
First Class Passenger
Member # 33

posted 12-10-2000 11:04 PM      Profile for Barryboat   Author's Homepage   Email Barryboat   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Regarding the story above about the kid who had cigarettes in his bag.....And in that same cabin, the smoke alarm went off????

I don't see the controversy???

Someone lit up. (even if just a match)

Someone lied about it.

Usually a match won't set off a smoke alarm.

Case closed...Carnival did the right this to protext the "integrity" of their rules.


Posts: 1851 | From: Bloomington, Minnesota (Home to the Mall of America) | Registered: Mar 99  |  IP: Logged
Paddy
First Class Passenger
Member # 357

posted 12-11-2000 06:20 AM      Profile for Paddy   Email Paddy   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
CooL! Onboard court rooms! Can't wait! We can get Ally McBeal and all her team to defend us - they never lose any cases! And the right honorable Judge Judy to preside. Woohoo!

Paddy.


Posts: 763 | From: Belfast, Ireland | Registered: Aug 99  |  IP: Logged
Malcolm @ cruisepage
Cruise Director
Member # 301

posted 12-11-2000 08:18 AM      Profile for Malcolm @ cruisepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Barryboat:
Regarding the story above about the kid who had cigarettes in his bag.....And in that same cabin, the smoke alarm went off????

Maynbe the Chef burned the steak and the fumes went into the guys cabin? Maybe not?


Posts: 19210 | From: Essex (Just Outside London) | Registered: A Long Time Ago!  |  IP: Logged
cameron
First Class Passenger
Member # 966

posted 12-11-2000 11:58 AM      Profile for cameron   Email cameron   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
This topic touchs off a very sensitive issue. I live in San Francisco area. There is a law that banned smoking in all public indoor facilities. It is nice to go from places to place with running into the a thick layer of smoke. Sure, there are places where people can smoke. They can light up as much as they can at those facilities. People in this part of the country really appreciate that fact that they can eat a dinner without taking all the smoke. The same can be said about cruise ships. I went on serveral cruises. I, personally, can not stand the smoke filled corridors, bar, deck, etc. I think Carnival made a right decision to enforce their non-smoking rule.

just my $.02
Cameron


Posts: 50 | From: Fremont, CA, USA | Registered: Dec 1999  |  IP: Logged
CTrail
First Class Passenger
Member # 64

posted 12-11-2000 05:56 PM      Profile for CTrail     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Cameron, same rule applies in Kitchener-Waterloo area. There is no smoking allowed in any public establishment including bars etc. They now have to have outdoor patios for the smokers. BRRR!!!

Believe me, it is also greatly appreciated by the masses in general here as well. The bars are fighting it but loosing big time. Other cities are looking at the same sort of by-law. Even Toronto.

Paddy, I'll give you the one about the gifts for friends but why not pick it up before going back home at the duty free, not before you go on the cruise knowing how they are reacting, and I also think properly so.


Nosmokingrulesnow.

Peter


Posts: 332 | From: Kitchener, ON Canada | Registered: Apr 99  |  IP: Logged
Malcolm @ cruisepage
Cruise Director
Member # 301

posted 12-11-2000 06:31 PM      Profile for Malcolm @ cruisepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Maybe they should go all the way and make America 'no smoking'?

Addicts could then take 'smoke' cruises to nowhere!

(This idea sounds a little familiar?)


Posts: 19210 | From: Essex (Just Outside London) | Registered: A Long Time Ago!  |  IP: Logged
nycruiser
First Class Passenger
Member # 960

posted 12-12-2000 12:01 PM      Profile for nycruiser   Email nycruiser   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I feel Carnival followed there rules as outlined PRIOR to passenger embarkation. When a person sails on the Paradise they sign a form oulining all the rules. I agree with Carnival on there judgement. If people do not like this rule they can sail on Carnival's other 14 ships.

As a non smoker I appluad Carnival for having such a ship.


Posts: 665 | From: Westchester County, NY | Registered: Dec 1999  |  IP: Logged
billyboy
First Class Passenger
Member # 958

posted 12-12-2000 08:28 PM      Profile for billyboy   Email billyboy   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Good for Carnival. I love it. I am non-smoker. I am going to book that ship.
Posts: 33 | From: moline, illinois USA | Registered: Dec 1999  |  IP: Logged
K&K
First Class Passenger
Member # 1040

posted 12-12-2000 08:50 PM      Profile for K&K   Email K&K   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I do smoke cigars and I agree with what they have done now that I have seen (cruise news)that it stated that even posession violates the rules. They did the right thing but I also know there are some people that could just smoke on an island and not on that ship.

Kevin


Posts: 446 | From: Sandpoint,Idaho,USA | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged

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