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Author Topic: Cruise Employee Conditions
WhiteStar
First Class Passenger
Member # 2740

posted 03-05-2002 08:39 AM      Profile for WhiteStar   Email WhiteStar   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Having been on many cruises and many times on the same ships I've become friends with some of the crew. I've seen the crew quarters on some ships and while not luxurious, I would have a hard time living in such a cabin. I also know they work long hours and the pay is not that great, but when I came across the following article I was shocked! Although it's from 2 years ago I have to believe not much has changed.

Miami New Times "The Perfect Scam"

Any insider comments?


Posts: 668 | From: Minnesota | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
gohaze
First Class Passenger
Member # 586

posted 03-05-2002 10:13 AM      Profile for gohaze   Email gohaze   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Interesting article. As I read it I thought I recognized the origin of most of it, and sure enough there it is at the end...the ITF.
It's very well done in presenting one side, and what is left out is really the basis of why these crews are there and willing to remain working there for many years. i.e. in a company that has expanded as rapidly as Carnival to remain in one level without promotion means either that you are borderline or you are already at the top level..either way does not justify bringing it up as a negative against the company.
I could keep going but the pros & cons of the ITF is not something I want to get involved in.
...peter

Posts: 1909 | From: Vancouver.BC | Registered: Sep 99  |  IP: Logged
moodus2
First Class Passenger
Member # 2414

posted 03-05-2002 10:25 AM      Profile for moodus2   Email moodus2   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
i am not surprised by the low
wages and long working hours.
we americans capitalize on cheap
cruises at the expense of workers on these ships.
the laws regarding foreign flagged ships do not apply.
that is why you dont see many
u.s.a. flagged cruise ships.
would you work 14 hours a day
7 days a week for $150 ? i dont
think so . but we patroitic
americans over look these things. look at the clothes you
wear, the shoes on your feet,
your house hold products.
all made in communist china
or some poor third world country
where people are paid low wages
and no health care.
if the cruise industry were to
pay these workers american standard wages and benifits
we cheap americans would most
likely not cruise !
look what happened to ss indepndence! ncl star took over.

Posts: 473 | From: moodus,ct. | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
WhiteStar
First Class Passenger
Member # 2740

posted 03-05-2002 10:26 AM      Profile for WhiteStar   Email WhiteStar   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
gohaze -

I guess what shocked me was a 98 hour work week for $150. Even with room and board that's a crime....or are they exaggerating their plight?


Posts: 668 | From: Minnesota | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
titanicsteve
First Class Passenger
Member # 2142

posted 03-05-2002 10:34 AM      Profile for titanicsteve   Email titanicsteve   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
MMMMMMMMM makes me think about working on a cruise ship!!!
Posts: 510 | From: Ireland (near Titanic birthplace!!) | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
titanicsteve
First Class Passenger
Member # 2142

posted 03-05-2002 10:45 AM      Profile for titanicsteve   Email titanicsteve   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
....... by the way do workers from say england and ireland get better pay/treatment? Would the likes of cunard pay better?

Here are the benefit (?) of working with Princess rincess offers salaries and benefits competitive within the cruise and cruisetour industry.

Princess offers eligible land-based employees the following benefits:

Medical, Dental & Vision Insurance Packages
Basic & Supplemental Life Insurance Plans
Short & Long Term Disability Plans
401k
Employee Assistance Program
Tuition Reimbursement Program
Discounted Travel Program

In addition, Princess offers opportunities and programs to encourage a comfortable work environment, personal enrichment and lifestyles, by providing the following:

Business Casual Dress Code
Health and Wellness Programs
Company-paid Training Programs

True or not?


Posts: 510 | From: Ireland (near Titanic birthplace!!) | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
WhiteStar
First Class Passenger
Member # 2740

posted 03-05-2002 11:12 AM      Profile for WhiteStar   Email WhiteStar   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
titanicsteve -

The article was about jobs that are primarily occupied by people from third world countries. Most "white collar" positions are held by Americans, Canadians and folks from your neck of the woods. I honestly don't think you would accept a job as janitor or waiter on a cruise ship but rather as one of the ships photographers, shore excursion, casino or boutique employees. And yes the pay and benefits are much better, or these people wouldn't work these jobs. Cruise directors can make a very good living, and if good at there job, often lured away by other cruise lines.


Posts: 668 | From: Minnesota | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
Amerikanis
First Class Passenger
Member # 1835

posted 03-05-2002 11:22 AM      Profile for Amerikanis   Email Amerikanis   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The above standing News are true!
This is, what i mean in other Postings with
"American Bull.... Turbo-Capitalism"

It is more worse, than on Soviet Ships in Time of Communism.

It is much more worse than on German Ships in the so called "Second Register".

And Carnival is the bottom of the Industry...

There are better Companies...

...ask your Waiters on your next Cruise. They know this. Waiters, who served for Celebrity, for example, will never change, if they are not thrown out by the Company.


Posts: 1034 | From: Gutach, Black Forest, Germany | Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged
Katie O'Girl
First Class Passenger
Member # 2704

posted 03-05-2002 11:56 AM      Profile for Katie O'Girl   Email Katie O'Girl   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
We have two friends who met on a ship. She was a photographer and he was a bar manager. They got married this summer. He had worked on the ship for eight years. Between the two of them they had saved just over £100,000. (One hundred thousand Irish punts) They left the cruiseline and married in both New Zealand (her home) and Ireland a few months later (his home) and bought a house. They loved the work. (???) I wish now that I could remember what cruiselines they were with. I'll have to get Tom to email them and find out.
On the Carnival someone told me to NOT do like other Americans and wait til the last to tip. That I should leave out some money on the bed with a note saying what I expected or wanted. Then if they didn't do it to not tip them at all. So the first night I left out a note saying hello and that I wanted fresh ice in the bucket twice a day, bottled water left daily and diet sodas in the fridge all the time but NO alcohol. (Tom stopped drinking three years ago.) I left only $10 with it. The whole time I was there they did everything but kiss my feet. I loved good service but it almost made me sad. They were so humble and helpful and ran their legs off for anything that you wanted. We not only left the tip on the sign and sail card but also left extra cash with a thank you note. They gave US a leftover hardcover souvenier book from the Inagural Cruise last month of the Pride which I thought was sweet. Nobody else got one that we knew of in the cabins around us. One was a Philippino and new on the ship. I spoke to him in Tagalog when he told me what province he was from. He looked so sad and said that he was VERY homesick and wanted to know how did I know his language. I just felt very sad for some of the workers. When the Romanian server told us that he had saved enough money to buy a house after 8 years and was leaving after this cruise he also said that the Eastern Europeans tend to do that. They stay long enough to save for a house then they are gone but that the Asians will stay for 10 years or more because their economy is so different. (I don't know. I'm just repeating what he said.) He also said that they worked 7 days a week for 7 weeks with 4 hours off once a week (during a meal like lunch time, etc) They do this for 8 months straight and then get 2 months off at home. The other server agreed with him.

Posts: 101 | From: Ireland | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
gohaze
First Class Passenger
Member # 586

posted 03-05-2002 12:00 PM      Profile for gohaze   Email gohaze   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Amerikanis...you're a joke.
In one sentence you are abusing Carnival because it's American and capitalistic. In the next you're praising Celebrity which is another American capitalistic company.
The crews are similar and I would suggest that the pay scales are as well.
...peter

Posts: 1909 | From: Vancouver.BC | Registered: Sep 99  |  IP: Logged
titanicsteve
First Class Passenger
Member # 2142

posted 03-05-2002 03:28 PM      Profile for titanicsteve   Email titanicsteve   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Now now Katie you have written something uncorrect in your above post! Have a look and tell me what it is

Guessing.......

Got it?.....

Answer.......

You should have wrote euro (€ not punts lololol god danm Southener lol (just kidding)


Posts: 510 | From: Ireland (near Titanic birthplace!!) | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Amerikanis
First Class Passenger
Member # 1835

posted 03-05-2002 04:09 PM      Profile for Amerikanis   Email Amerikanis   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
gohaze, the Problem is not, because these Companies are American or capitalistic.

The Problem is, that these Jobs for an Minimum wage are something like Slavery Work, and the Slaveholders are not the Passengers, they are the Companies, the employers of these People.

The Wages in Service on Celebrity Ships are very low, as i knew, i did some Cruises with them.

The Crews are not unhappy, because they get good Tips. The Segment of this Company is higher than this of Carnival, so i think, at Celebrity they will get better Money. Passengers are more satisfied and in average i think of an higher
Standard...

The Medal has two Sides: one Side offers these Conditions, and the other accepts them.

On my next Cruise with the Astor, the Tips are included in the Price, the Service Crew get Wages, but they come from Ukraine, so i think, the Wages will not be very high, but much better than in the Country.

In 1993 i met an Navigator on the Astra, which has an Soviet Company and worked at that time for Neckermann Cruises in Frankfurt. He has an Salary of 550 German Marks, at the same Time, Salary in Russia for an Captain was 10000 Roubles, this is 100 Marks.

So on one Side, 550 Marks is very small for us, but it was much better than in Russia and it is better for an Job of 3x4 Hours each day than 50 Dollars for more Hours with Stress.

There are a lot of Jobs in US too, which are payed small, so called "Mc Donald Jobs", for 5 Dollars an Hour, not only at this company. Take Cleaners or Service People in Shops, it is the same. The People, who work for this have an Hard Job and are poor, so called "Working Poor".

I knew, the Passengers has an Benefit of low payed Crew, because the Price for the Cruises sunk dramatically (the Quality sunk too), but he is not the Employer of the Crew and not responsible for their Working Conditions.

O.K., i should think about some Tipping, when i am back again on an Ship with non-payed-Crew...


Posts: 1034 | From: Gutach, Black Forest, Germany | Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged
Katie O'Girl
First Class Passenger
Member # 2704

posted 03-05-2002 07:57 PM      Profile for Katie O'Girl   Email Katie O'Girl   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Stevie, they saved it BEFORE the EURO came in in January. They saved it and got married in July. I DID think of that but I wasn't sure what the equivalent of £100,000 would be in Euros. Not only that but I haven't downloaded the software to make the euro sign available on my keyboard yet. (You little show off!!!! )
Posts: 101 | From: Ireland | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
JohnM
First Class Passenger
Member # 1246

posted 03-06-2002 08:17 AM      Profile for JohnM   Author's Homepage   Email JohnM   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Amerikanis, slaves aren't free to quit or find another job. These people are (free). If they could find a better job, do you think they would be working these jobs on a cruise ship? As long as there are job applicants at those wages and conditions, nothing will change, nor in my opinion should it. If you don't like it, don't look for the best deal on your next cruise.
Posts: 40 | From: Georgia, USA | Registered: Apr 2000  |  IP: Logged
Amerikanis
First Class Passenger
Member # 1835

posted 03-06-2002 08:50 AM      Profile for Amerikanis   Email Amerikanis   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
JohnM, this is exactly the Problem for me.

I do not like this, and it would be better, not to look for the best Deal, but on the other Hand, i am no Millioneer and like to cruise, and if it is possible, i take the better Company and not the worse...

It would be more honest, to calculate the Prices fair and complete and not to press Passengers to give Tips, when they are on Board, or take very
expensive Prices for Drinks (i do not drink) or Excursions (i make them most myself).

When i see an good offer of an good Company, i myself get weak and cannot stand. So i book them again, with the feeling, it should not be...

...but you are right, for the Time, where People are asking those Jobs (and a lot of them ask), there will nothing be changed.

The Benefit of this has the Company and the Passenger.

Regular payed Crews would make Cruises more expensive (i think minimum 50 per Cent more)
and it would not be possible, to fill all these Ships (and each Year comes a big Number of Newbuilts). So, this is an Automatism, which brings Prices down and makes number of Participants high.

We will not change this, and i will book again,
if i get an good offer of Celebrity and can take Holidays from my Company.

I must ask always three: My direct Boss of my Employer, the direct Boss of my Wife of an other Employer and the DOGPENSION. This is the most important Point. I have an very strong Rottweiler Male Dog, and he need for our vacation his place in always the same Pension, where he is welcome and good treatened, until we come back.

In the Future, as i am now working together with Cruisetravel, i will have an special look on Ships of HAL, P&O, Princess and Cunard, too.
The first 3 are seldom offered in Germany.

Our agencies prefer Costa, NCL, MSC, Festival and the German Ships, the last are expensive, the others not the Best...

For my next Cruise i got an special offer of the ASTOR, it is my first Cruise with an German Ship except two on the River Rhine in 1992. The offer comes from Cruisetravel for Euro 2194 each for 18 days.

You can book the same Cruise, 4 days longer in Germany for an Minimum of Euro 4500 each.
Starting Benoa/Bali and ending Bombay/India for me and Dubai/Emirates for the most German Passengers.

So, our own Agencies ripped us off, as Malcolm writes for British in Britain...


Posts: 1034 | From: Gutach, Black Forest, Germany | Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged
Colin
First Class Passenger
Member # 1676

posted 03-06-2002 06:57 PM      Profile for Colin   Email Colin   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Katie O'Girl, I've been looking for a Tagalog phrase book for a number of years, or better yet an audio cassette version, without any joy. Any ideas where I might find one?

And please tell us, "how did I know his language"? Regards, Colin.


Posts: 283 | From: Inverness, Scotland | Registered: Nov 2000  |  IP: Logged
Katie O'Girl
First Class Passenger
Member # 2704

posted 03-07-2002 12:34 PM      Profile for Katie O'Girl   Email Katie O'Girl   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Colin, I have seen Tagalog phrase books advertised but I can't think of where. Let me ponder this one.
Can't you find anything online on Tagalog?
They have a Gaelic site where they actually SAY the words for you just as if you had a cassette for pronunciation.

The language question. When I was about 12 I got a penpal (You remember those......where you used a pen and paper and then put the handwritten thing in an envelope with stamps?) She was listed in a magazine and the Philippines seemed so exotic and far off so I wrote her and we wrote for over 15 years. When I got older and went on a couple of USO tours of Asia I got to meet her. She owned a little sari-sari store. She taught me bits over the years in letters. I don't know a lot. Just basic phrases. It's a colourful, lovely culture and I liked the people. And they are very loyal to you if you are their true friend.
Funny thing. I never believed in miracles until I met this lady in person. I always knew that one day we would meet. I had a very hard time finding her when I went to the P.I. I had to take a non-air conditioned bus over 8 hours of dirt road from Olongapo to near Angeles City. The town was under marshall law and you had to be inside your hotel compound by 10PM. It was a bit scary and I had been warned about going alone but I felt like I HAD to see her in person. Once in the town in a stopped taxi a child ran up and grabbed my hair through the window and laughed loudly. It frightened me and the driver said "He never sees yellow hair." It was strange. When I finally saw her I was so shocked. She was very thin and sickly and had the most rotted teeth I'd ever seen. Not at all pretty and plump like in her pictures. She was the same bright and lovely person as in the letters, though. I went back to my hotel that night and "something" told me to just use the money that I had with me extra to see if I could get her teeth fixed. So I said a little prayer and then went to the front desk and asked the manager if he knew a dentist in town. He said "My wife is a dentist in town." The next day I went to my friends little street store and told her that I wanted to take her to the dentist. She protested a lot but finally her sister came to run her store and I hired a jeepney and went to this lady dentist. She had to lock us in her office with her because of the crime in that area and her children played on the floor in the same room as she worked on my friends teeth. Pretty primitive and scary with soldiers everywhere and rumours of Huks around the town. Anyhow, it turned out that my friend had such a massive infection in her teeth for so long that it was actually making her blind in one of her eyes. She couldn't eat and was in constant pain. I'd never heard of such a thing but I made a call to a military dentist there on the AirForce base in Angeles City and he said it was possible, very likely and quite common there. She gave her massive doses of antibiotics and I couldn't stay but a few days even though the dentist said that she needed to have the teeth all pulled and get dentures. They did pull them a few days later but they had to wait for the swelling to go down before they could fit her for dentures. I was worried that I'd get cheated (shame on me, I know) and I didn't have enough money for all that and asked the dentist what kind of arrangements I could make to pay her when I got back home but to my surprise she said "My father trained in America and he's in Manila. He has an American Express account and will take your personal check." Now THAT was just unheard of in that little town!!! I left a check for the amount that she'd need to get dentures (which was very cheap compared to America) Within a few weeks I got both a letter from the dentist and a note from my friend saying that she was well and her teeth fit. Her next picture showed her looking fine and not thin anymore. I really think that all the timing and circumstances made for the closest thing to a miracle that I'd ever experienced. The dentist said in the note that in time she'd have gone totally blind from the infection.
Okay, okay..........so I got off the track on cruising. Isn't it great that we're all blessed with the resources to be able to cruise and not so very POOR like our cabin stewards and waiters from third world countries? THERE.
Hey, who do you want to speak Tagalog to? Just curious? It's NOT an easy language.


Posts: 101 | From: Ireland | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
titanicsteve
First Class Passenger
Member # 2142

posted 03-08-2002 03:58 AM      Profile for titanicsteve   Email titanicsteve   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Excuse the ignorance but what is a 'Tagolog'??
Posts: 510 | From: Ireland (near Titanic birthplace!!) | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
lambcom
First Class Passenger
Member # 656

posted 03-08-2002 08:59 AM      Profile for lambcom   Email lambcom   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Steve, Tagalog is the language spoken by the majority of the residents of the Philippine Islands. On cruise ships, it's the language they talk when not dealing with passengers!
Posts: 179 | From: Montreal, canada | Registered: Jul 99  |  IP: Logged
colt
First Class Passenger
Member # 1215

posted 03-09-2002 07:03 PM      Profile for colt     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Katie--You sound like a saint. It seems that fate or destiny brought you into the life of this poor woman, and because of your generosity, she was spared going totally blind.
Posts: 293 | From: Lisbon, Maryland, USA | Registered: Apr 2000  |  IP: Logged
Katie O'Girl
First Class Passenger
Member # 2704

posted 03-09-2002 11:35 PM      Profile for Katie O'Girl   Email Katie O'Girl   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Oh no, I didn't mean to sound that way but thanks for the nice words. It's just that when I was little my brother and I were raised by my grandmother and we were very poor. A LOT of people were VERY kind to us and paid for different things because my grandma would have rather DIED than accepted "the dole" as we call it in Ireland. Now it's MY turn to do for others if I can. You know how that goes
Posts: 101 | From: Ireland | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
Cambodge
First Class Passenger
Member # 906

posted 03-10-2002 12:41 PM      Profile for Cambodge   Email Cambodge   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Katie:
A great posting! I would like to get such to appear in the Midships Lounge, but we have not had many visitors these days. However, assuming we are in the Lounge, I will make some more off-cruising-topic observations.

Cruisers, please bear with us.
1. Tagalog.
I was a passenger on the USNS "General R. M. Blatchford", of the USN's "Grey funnel Lines", in 1945. We were the first troopship in Manila Bay, and in landing craft, we cam ashore on (then)Dewey Boulevard. While onboard we got the news of FDR's death, which sets that date exactly.

I remember snipers still in the half-sunken wrecks of Japanese ships in Manila Bay. We anchored --way-- out and at the 6 knot speed of the LCVPs it took a long time.

I had acquired a little Tagalog handbook and knew "Bawal ang pamosk,"I believe, meant "Keep Out," and "Mabuhay" which was either "Welcome" or "Banzai" I am not sure which!

The trucks carrying us to our replacement center camp went through many little Philippine Villages, where the words "Victory Joe!" were the most common. Although I prided myself in recognizing "Mabuhay!"

Then, what tagalog I eventually learned was on Armed Forces Radio, and, in finally my Tagalog handbook was shortly replaced by a Japanese Handbook as we prepared to go north!

2. You mentioned USO.
The "Blatchford" carried the USO-Camp Shows troupe of "Oklahoma! They were great and talented young singers and dancers and a real pride to the organization. Is there any website I can try to locate any of them- now so long ago?

3.Angeles.

I was sniped at while traversing the road to Angeles to see the "Oklahoma" Camp Show at Subic Bay. Before the "Huks" there were the "Japs." [that is a term I have not used for years, but was appropriate in wartime to use such pejorative when applied to those who then were trying to shoot you.] So I followed a tank up "zig-zag pass;' the snipers were quieted; and I had a hearty and happy reunion with my "Blatchford" USO-shipmates! Particularly those of the female persuasion!

And now, sorry people, I have nattered on for far too long off topic.


Posts: 2149 | From: St. Michaels MD USA , the town that fooled the British! | Registered: Nov 1999  |  IP: Logged
Green
First Class Passenger
Member # 171

posted 03-10-2002 03:27 PM      Profile for Green     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Cambodge

Off topic or otherwise, I enjoy your natters!


Posts: 2913 | From: Markham, Ontario, Canada | Registered: Jul 99  |  IP: Logged
Katie O'Girl
First Class Passenger
Member # 2704

posted 03-10-2002 05:34 PM      Profile for Katie O'Girl   Email Katie O'Girl   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
My goodness Cambodge, that was SO interesting. I have to admit that I've stood on the beaches of Saipan, Agat/Agana, Guam and Subic Bay and wondered about the blood that soaked into the sand on the beaches from American men during WWII. I wasn't even "thought of" much less born until many years later but there was a "feeling" there in those places.
My goodness, I'd have liked to have seen Angles City in those days. Last time I was there in around 1992 Mt. Pinatubo had made the place look like a moonscape with all the ash. It was sad. But you know it only took me 3 hours in the 90's then to go to Angeles from Subic Bay. The buses were new and the roads had been recently paved and there was AIR CONDITIONING. What a luxury compared to a few years before to see my friend!
USO tours are not quite like those days from what I've heard. Except for traveling on Military Airlift Command planes hanging in those webbed seats on the side of the walls we pretty much had a lot of comfort. I'll see if there's a website for the USO entertainers from that era. Never even thought of it before.

[ 03-10-2002: Message edited by: Katie O'Girl ]


Posts: 101 | From: Ireland | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
Rex
First Class Passenger
Member # 1113

posted 03-11-2002 09:10 AM      Profile for Rex     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Many Filipinos serve in the US Navy. I find them to be very friendly, clever and resourceful people. I have been to the Philippines about a dozen times. Mostly Subic Bay but I have been to Manila twice. I LOVE Filipino food and had a really good friend who taught me all the dirty Tagalog phrases. I miss the "PI" as they call it in the Navy...I think the US overstayed their welcome there...however, and by the time of my last visit in 1990, there was growing Anti-American sentiment.

I would love to go back....


Posts: 1413 | From: Philadelphia PA, USA | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged

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