Apparently she's been using the product for some time and now feels confident about recommending it.

I followed the instructions very carefully, and had an awful time on the airplane. Spent most of my time waiting for the washroom.

It could have been the food on the plane, or something in the pills that did not agree with me.

On long-haul: I regularly stroll up and down the gangway, carry several litres bottles of water and drink them, am careful what I eat, I never drink alcohol on the flight, or before, and sometimes I take a motion sickness pill. I’m not sure you can do much about your body clock?

Jet lag is primarily due to time zone changes. Of course stress and exhaustion compound the problems - I don't know about you but I don't find airports to be soothing, relaxing places. Your body's internal clock is set on your local time zone and your normal hours.

When you fly to Europe from North America there is a 5 hour difference to the UK or six hours to the contintent. Most flights are overnight flights. Leave NY at 8:00 PM fly for 7 hours. if you are lucky you get 4 hours sleep on the plane. It is now 3 AM NY Time when you arrive in London at 8:00 AM London time. Then clear customs, get your luggage and wait for the car/taxi/train - its now
9:00 AM then an hour to get into town - 10:00 AM (really 5 AM according to your body). Then you spend the day working or sightseeing (can't waste a day). That night you go to your hotel room and at 10:00 london time you try to sleep, but you can't, your body says it is only 5:00 PM. So you don't fall asleep until 3:00 AM and only get another 4 hours sleep.

Flying to Asia where the time difference is twelve hours is even worse. Now one interesting problem is that it is always easier to fly west. So flying from NY to Europe I am primarily jet lagged in Europe (figure 3 days) and OK coming back (1-2).

Going to Asia I am OK going to Asia - figure 1-2 days, but messed up for 3 days on my return.

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Originally posted by eroller:
What exactly is "jet lag". As a flight attendant who flies many international flights every month, I never quite understood it.

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WJCdiver... Take a 'daylight madness' flight from the US to Europe. You won't have ANY jetlag. Only available with some airlines through a few gateways, but well worth getting on one. I always do if possible. Red eyes are the killers and only there as they make more economical sense for the airlines.

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Originally posted by PamM:

No, because you get a suitable length of time between flights to have sufficient sleep, whatever the local time. Local time means nothing to you, you're going back again shortly. Arrive in London and you can sleep for the day, if on business one has to go to work, or on holiday one wants to see the sights. You know all this anyway! MrP arrives back today and then has to spend the rest of the day in work, he can't catch up on sleep and then won't want to sleep tonight, or get up on time tomorrow morning, but has to, so more sleep lost.

Pam

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Pam, you failed to mention that while you may have to go to work when you arrive at your destination, you have the opportunity to sleep and relax the entire 8-10 hour flight. During that time, I'm working with maybe a 1 to 1 1/2 rest break at most. Layovers in Europe are 24 hours for the most part, and believe me when I say only 8-10 hours of that is spent sleeping. There are sights to see and friends to meet! It all works out in the end, unless you are one of those people who can't sleep on an airplane.

Now I won't even get into Domestic trips, where one can easily work a 15 hour duty day and have a 9 1/2 hour layover, then do it all again on day 2 and 3 of the trip. Granted, this is an extreme situation, but it does occur especially during bad weather and other irregular ops.

Do you ever wonder why Flight Attendants are so grumpy? The above and the fact that most flights are now at minimum staffing are two big reasons. Of course the passengers might have something to do with it as well!

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Originally posted by eroller:

Pam, you failed to mention that while you may have to go to work when you arrive at your destination, you have the opportunity to sleep and relax the entire 8-10 hour flight. During that time, I'm working with maybe a 1 to 1 1/2 rest break at most.

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Do your passengers manage it, just curious? Office all day drive to airport..Leave DTW 6pm, drinks cart 7pm, meal 8pm, finish meal/coffee 9pm, too early for sleep anyhow, 11pm nod off, landing 1am [6am LHR], 2 hours sleep?? In office by 9am, work all day home 6pm.... sleep won't come until very later maybe 2 or 3 am if lucky, up for 7am. One has had maybe 7 hours sleep in 2 nights.

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Layovers in Europe are 24 hours for the most part, and believe me when I say only 8-10 hours of that is spent sleeping. There are sights to see and friends to meet! It all works out in the end, unless you are one of those people who can't sleep on an airplane.

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Of course you get out and about, but still have the sleep. Just going on what FA friends have told me in the past. They have always said jet-lag is meaningless when working, but when on holiday it does hit them for a couple of days. Do you not notice that at all?

I have no trouble sleeping on an aircraft, in fact the noise makes me nod off and I'm rarely awake to eat breakfast, but others need to eat and can't do that.

If one can get the sleep and drink plenty, non-alcohol, it's not too bad. I don't suffer much, do feel a bit zombyish on the 2nd day, but never on a daytime flight as one fits in the sleep with a full night before and maybe a shorter one after, but still ample.

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Now I won't even get into Domestic trips, where one can easily work a 15 hour duty day and have a 9 1/2 hour layover, then do it all again on day 2 and 3 of the trip. Granted, this is an extreme situation, but it does occur especially during bad weather and other irregular ops.

Do you ever wonder why Flight Attendants are so grumpy? The above and the fact that most flights are now at minimum staffing are two big reasons. Of course the passengers might have something to do with it as well!

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That is extreme and couldn't continue for any length of time, the satff would be collapsing. It would be outside work regulations surely if so. Grumpy attendants! Don't tell me.. I've seen them so rude as to have a pax in tears [twice in fact on different occasions]. Sometimes they can be really grumpy and it's not good for the airline's image as I then avoid them if possible. Unfortunately they have you round their little finger and it's not always possible. I hope you don't work for NW!!

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Originally posted by eroller:
Do you ever wonder why Flight Attendants are so grumpy? The above and the fact that most flights are now at minimum staffing are two big reasons. Of course the passengers might have something to do with it as well!

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LOL... I've only once met one really grumpy FA... I don't expect white glove service on an airplane though !

As for sleeping on airplanes - it doesn't work well for me... I have to be able to stretch out comfortably to sleep.

I imagine in business or first on a long flight, with the comfort that implies, it would be easy... Not in cattle class though.

Regarding the passengers.... the smart ones who travel often could care less about the food, drinks (especially alcohol), movie, etc. They have already eaten in the airport, taken a Zanex or some other type of sleep aid, and are out within the first hour of the flight. They usually wake up about an hour before landing, which has given them about 6-7 hours sleep. Not bad. I also do this when traveling for pleasure, and it works great.

And no, I don't work for NW, but one of my best friends does! I don't often hear too many good things about them.

I can and have slept my way across the Atlantic (Toronto to London/Glasgow more times than I can count) without the aid of sleeping aids. Catnapping, I've also survived the dreaded middle seat with the 'kicking kid' behind me and the aisle seat too! No matter - upon arrival around 2:00 am (my internal clock time) I head for the hotel or wherever I'm staying - grab a quick lunch, a warm bath and sleep for at least a couple of hours - shower and change for a relaxing dinner around 6:00pm local time and it's back to bed by 10:00pm local time - I'm rested and ready to start my holiday/business activities the following morning. For me it works!

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Originally posted by Green:
I believe that being able to sleep on a 'long haul' flight depends greatly – almost entirely maybe - on where you are seated - in First or Business Class (which I rarely enjoy) it's possible - in Economy.

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Can't argue with you there! You are right, First/Business vs. Coach makes a huge difference! While I can probably sleep on my own in Business, a sleep aid is a must in Coach.

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Originally posted by eroller:
First/Business vs. Coach makes a huge difference!

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In comfort - and Price! For instance... A typical summer (peak) roundtrip to Europe:

Delta 16 JFK-CDG (New York-Paris) Friday 04 July 2003
Delta 17 CDG-JFK (Paris-New York) Friday 11 July 2003
Roundtrip, per person, Economy lowest fare: $1234.66

Delta 16 JFK-CDG (New York-Paris) Friday 04 July 2003
Delta 17 CDG-JFK (Paris-New York) Friday 11 July 2003
Roundtrip, per person, Business lowest fare: $6321.66

This is right of Delta's website, the route and dates I happened to have chosen randomly as something that we might typically fly for an international trip.

The business fare is 5.12 times as much as the economy fare... Just not affordable, unless you buy full economy fare and use miles (not easy to accrue) for the upgrade.

And even that full economy fare is not cheap.

Granted that six grand buys you all manner of luxuries including good food, plush thrones, complicated entertainment systems, lounge access, extra miles, etc... BUT it is still just too expensive!

This is where "Premium Economy" comes into play IMHO - and I don't mean something like UA's nonsense Economy Plus which is basically a way of appeasing elites without giving them real upgrades. Four extra inches of pitch doesn't make it... I mean something like Virgin, BA, EVA Air, or now SAS offer on long flights... At about a full coach fare. Nothing really fancy, but a relatively comfortable seat with a legrest, and so on.

For maybe twice the price of a cheap coach excursion fare I think lots of people would go for it.

EVA Air (Taiwan) is now giving over more seats to Evergreen Deluxe (Premium Economy) than to regular Economy on their longhaul airplanes due to its huge popularity.

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Originally posted by Cruiseny:

In comfort - and Price! For instance... A typical summer (peak) roundtrip to Europe:

Delta 16 JFK-CDG (New York-Paris) Friday 04 July 2003
Delta 17 CDG-JFK (Paris-New York) Friday 11 July 2003
Roundtrip, per person, Economy lowest fare: $1234.66

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Ahh, but when you fly for free in Business, money is no object! There has to be some benefit to working for an airline.

Prior to flying to Europe on any vacation, I make certain I pick a flight where I'm almost assured of being cleared in BusinessElite. It makes a huge difference, and it's a nice way to start/end a vacation. Besides, it's a pleasure to be on the receiving end of a service I know all too well.

Of course sometimes you have to take what you can get, especially if you must get somewhere for a cruise. Hopefully in December, I will fly BusinessElite to London for the QE2. We have 3-flights daily out of Atlanta, so my chances will be good.

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Originally posted by eroller:
Ahh, but when you fly for free in Business, money is no object! There has to be some benefit to working for an airline.

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For your sake I hope that isn't the only benefit!

I know more than my share of people that work for airlines and undeniably it does have advantages.

Personally I'd prefer not to be so close to the front lines though ! I fly enough to know that I do not want to deal with airline passengers... I suppose most people get a bit nervous when flying, and combine that with the fact that it's not normally quite smooth sailing, and you get raging masses of people. Last time we flew I felt like they were going to have to bring in SWAT teams to control these people... I have never seen people so enraged over pure nonsense anywhere. It's almost like something off a sitcom... Just not funny .

In fact I'd say that there are two entities that make flying less than pleasant:

1. Security people - some do their job well but many seem arrogant without actually doing much for the cause of security.
2. Other passengers. No further explanation necessary.

Rarely, if ever, has it been an airline employee who makes flying unpleasant. If ever, they are always on the ground. The actual flying is hardly ever unpleasant for me - in fact for a short time, or in comfort, it can be enjoyable... It is the ground aspect that is so painful, and needlessly so.

I imagine that flying with chimpanzees would be more pleasant than flying with the average ignorant airline passenger.

The people who go on about too-salty-peanuts and ugly colored seats drive me nuts... Who cares... What do you expect for $99 each way .

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Originally posted by Cruiseny:

For your sake I hope that isn't the only benefit!
.

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Oh, there are so many reasons why working as a Flight Attendant is great. Working only 12 days a month is a good start. That, added with the free flying makes taking a vacation anytime a reality. The pay is incredible for what we do and how much we work. We also receive major discounts on cruises (at least 50% off), hotels, rental cars, etc. worldwide. We fly relatively cheaply on other airlines too (ID90 - we pay 10% of the tariff fare... for instance, r/t to Sydney where we don't fly costs $300 on Qantas). On airlines that are our code share partners such as South African and Air France, we fly free.

It's all these reasons and more that people in the industry rarely leave. This is one of the reasons we have so many 30 year plus flight attendants on the payroll. Once you are that senior, you only work about 7-days a month, still making great pay at the top of the scale. There is really no reason to leave. I have been with Delta for almost 9 years. My seniority number is around 13,200 out of 20,000 flight attendants. I haven't even hit the half way point yet. At any other company, 9-10 years of service is considered a long time. Not so at a major airline. It's also a job that gets better and better the more senior you get. Better trips, better pay, more time off, and six weeks of vacation to bat!

As far as the passengers go, I know how to handle them and I have never had an incident or bad letter written about me in 9-years.... knock on wood! You have to realize that working a flight is far better than being a passenger. We have the ability to constantly move around, can have privacy in the galley, cockpit, or crew rest area, and don't have to worry about crying babies or an obese passenger taking up part of our seat.

[ 10-29-2002: Message edited by: thulewx ]

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Originally posted by thulewx:
Y'all think Savings time & jet lag messes with your mind/body, try iving without Sun for 4 months, then 2 months of day/night, then 4 months of 24hr sun, then 2 months day/night - throw in 2 trips in the dark season to the tropics...

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Wow! I never thought of all that. I think you have the rest of us beat by a longshot.

Thulewx... I can only imagine what it must be like living in darkness for days on end. Not something I would like at all, but I would enjoy the midnight sun! Must mess up the bodyclock somewhat.

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Originally posted by PamM:
Nice to be able to fly free, I know BA staff never could a few years back, always had to pay 10%, doubt it's changed. Their rates for friends and family too were often higher than a good offer elsewhere, so with the added clause of not being guaranteed a seat on a particular day if the flight was full, I never took the friends up on any of their offers.

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That doesn't sound too good... Thumbs down BA!

I'd rather fly Delta anyhow... BA is fine... But not a favorite of mine.

I suppose airline employees here in the US have an advantage!

Another example of "rip-off Britain" I suppose !

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Thulewx... I can only imagine what it must be like living in darkness for days on end. Not something I would like at all, but I would enjoy the midnight sun! Must mess up the bodyclock somewhat.

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