I can see the cruise industry going the same way. You can cruise on any time of ship tht you like, as long as it's a 'Vista Class'!

Still at least we will not have to worry about which cruise line or cabin layouts, standards of food and service etc., as they will all be the same!

P&O is a major name and cant see how Carnival can own not just P&O cruise ships but there other cruise fleet like Aida Cruises, that just seems illegal because they would have a MONOPOLY, well almost !!!

quote:

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Originally posted by Ðraikar
Stupid question but dose this included P&O cruises ships as well as the Princess Ships or did P&O just sell off there Princess fleet ???

P&O is a major name and cant see how Carnival can own not just P&O cruise ships but there other cruise fleet like Aida Cruises, that just seems illegal because they would have a MONOPOLY, well almost !!!

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quote:

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Originally posted by K&K:
All of you certainly could be right but.....

I do not think so as this has not been past practice with other cruise lines Carnival Corp. has consumed. They have pretty much left each line to keep their cruise product the same. Case in point they may own CCL, HAL, Costa and ect... but each has a quite different approach to cruising and offer a very different experience.
Just a thought
Kevin

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This is certainly the case with HAL, but what about Costa? Costa is becoming the Carnival of Europe, with Carnival Spirit and Destiny
Class ships parading as COSTA ATLANTICA and COSTA FORTUNA, and Joe Farcus as the head interior designer.

Even ZUIDERDAM has been receiving many negative reviews since her debut, with several people comparing her to Carnival in decor, and a
noticeable decline in services that were once HAL signatures. I'm not saying that this in itself has anything to due with the parent
company, but it might. I know Carnival Corp. CEO gave strict instructions to ZUIDERDAM designers to make the ship appear to a younger crowd, as well as the 7-day Caribbean market. There is
nothing wrong with this, but it does point out that Carnival does get involved. They are not as hands off as you might think.

One interesting story regarding Carnival's hands-off (or should I say hands-on) approach was told to me just recently on QE2. I became friends with a fellow that works in Cunard's Miami head
office. During our conversation, I enquired just how hands-off Carnival really is? Well, the reply was that during the Thanksgiving holidays, permission had to be granted from Carnival's
headquarters in another part of Miami for some of the staff to be let off early. Interesting that the execs at Cunard are not empowered to make this decision on their own. I was told that when it comes to ANYTHING dealing with revenue, Carnival had to be consulted.

Back to ships... Carnival is getting a lot of use out of the Spirit / Vista Class. This ship design is now finding it's way into three different brands (Carnival, HAL, Cunard). I wonder how long before a Vista / Spirit Class ship sails under the Princess/P&O brand? Four brands for the price of one ship, you can't beat it!

Call Carnival hands-off if you choose, but it's only up to a certain point.

quote:

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Originally posted by Ðraikar:
Stupid question but dose this included P&O cruises ships as well as the Princess Ships or did P&O just sell off there Princess fleet ???

P&O is a major name and cant see how Carnival can own not just P&O cruise ships but there other cruise fleet like Aida Cruises, that just seems illegal because they would have a MONOPOLY, well almost !!!

Ðraikar

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The sale includes all the ships and brands under the Princess/P&O Cruises lable. Such as:

Princess Cruises
Princess Tours
P&O Cruises Australia
P&O Cruises UK
Swan Hellenic
Aida
A'Rosa
Ocean Village

Am I forgetting anything? Anyway, pretty much everything for which P&O stands for. It does not include separate P&O holdings such as Ferries, shipping, and construction.

quote:

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Originally posted by eroller
The sale includes all the ships and brands under the Princess/P&O Cruises lable. Such as:

Princess Cruises
Princess Tours
P&O Cruises Australia
P&O Cruises UK
Swan Hellenic
Aida
A'Rosa
Ocean Village

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quote:

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Originally posted by Keitaro:

Does this mean Carnival might use the Princess Tour for Carnival Cruise Line too during the Alaska season?

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I would not be surprised to see some combination of Holland America Tours (Westours) and Princess Tours in Alaska. This is one area where there is a definite overlap and I would imagine all brands under the Carnival umbrella would use the same Alaska Tour Company, whatever that might eventually be called.

Ernie

[ 01-08-2003: Message edited by: eroller ]

Maybe P&O and Princess will have there own class or still use the ship they already have but modified ?

I'll know if they ever remake another QM2 but for Carnival, just remember all the company's White Star Line and Cunard Line took over and then Cunard took White Star in a merge.

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Originaly posted by HomeLines
Everyone keeps talking about how Carnival, Costa, HAL and Cunard share the same ship design (i.e. Spirit Class, Vista Class and Costa Atlantica series). Well, Princess ALREADY has these. Take a look at the hull design and deck plans of the new Coral-class ships, they are pretty much the same. That's because when the cruise lines ask for bids from each shipyard the yards copy the designs and sell them to other cruise lines. There are ALOT of similiarities between the Spirit/Vista/Atlantica-class and the Millennium-class with Celebrity and the Coral-class with Princess. All the cruise lines do is copy one another.

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HomeLines, do you mean the yards make a copy of the design being bid on while they are bidding for the construction? I thought the Cruise Line/Corporate Company have the rights to their designs?

[ 01-09-2003: Message edited by: Keitaro ]

Try this? Take one ship (pick one you like) and then imagine that HAL, COSTA then CCL run the ship for a month each. Do you think the experience would be the same? Which month would you want to travel. Do you think that HAL will have a toga party?

Could it be possible that the reason HAL in paticular are having complaints about service is not cutbacks but inpart due to finding quality emplayees with all the new ships and not to many old ones retired the cream of the crop has already been skimmed.

Now, about Carnival and their managment practices. I think it is fair to say that Carnival allows each brand to act independently regarding software (staff, proceedures, policies, cruise experience) but they certainly hold control over the hardware (ships, design, ordering, and deployment).

But here is where the problem is- by controling the hardware (ship design) they ultimately control the software (the cruise experience). The Spirit/Vista class ships have nearly identical public space layout- one huge dinning room aft- a huge theater forward- just to name a few. That limits the type of cruise product a cruise line can offer-

quote:

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Originally posted by Keitaro:

I just looked at the Spirit/Vista Class hull design, Coral Princess, and the Millenium class ships and they look virtually the same-except fot the funnels and the rear section.

HomeLines, do you mean the yards make a copy of the design being bid on while they are bidding for the construction? I thought the Cruise Line/Corporate Company have the rights to their designs?

[ 01-09-2003: Message edited by: Keitaro ]

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Sometimes the yards are the designers of the concept. The Spirit/Atlantica/Vista/Millennium/Coral-class ships actually come from a design that was developed at the technology unit of Kvaerner Masa Yards in Finland. They called it PanamaxMax because it's virtually the largest cruise ship you can build that is able to transit the Panama Canal. When each cruise line builds a ship they present the final design particulars to all major shipyards who bid to build the ship. In that process, shipyards learn about the core principles of the design and it is that technology that gets passed from one shipyard, one cruise line to the other. I've heard some design principles have patents so the shipyard that gets the contract to build the ship pays a licensing fee to the shipyard that designed it.

quote:

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Originally posted by tg_lindo:
Call me cynical, but the resolution to the overlapping markets will be a game plan that is meant to benefit shareholders at the expense of the employees, especially middle management, under the deceptive camouflage of increased customer value.

Have not we seen this in countless other industries? Companies merge, many people making decent middle class incomes are laid off, and the CEO gets a multi-million dollar bonus.

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Tg_lindo,

All are PanamaxMax designs that have tall and narrow superstructures- giving them lots of balconies, tonnage between 80,000 and 90,000, and the ability to transit the canal.

quote:

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Originally posted by skyej
Now, how did NCL/Star and Meyer Werft develop the Norwegian Star class ships? They are also able to transit the canal, are over 90,000 tons, and have lots of balconies- But these ships DO NOT have a narrow superstructure like the others? Can someone explain this?

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quote:

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Originally posted by skyej:
Regarding the similarity in design between Spirit/Vista/Millennium/Radiance/Coral class ships-

All are PanamaxMax designs that have tall and narrow superstructures- giving them lots of balconies, tonnage between 80,000 and 90,000, and the ability to transit the canal.

Now, how did NCL/Star and Meyer Werft develop the Norwegian Star class ships? They are also able to transit the canal, are over 90,000 tons, and have lots of balconies- But these ships DO NOT have a narrow superstructure like the others? Can someone explain this?

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