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» Cruise Talk   » Cruise Lines   » "CRUISE SHIP BLUES" -- A Look at the Underbelly of the Cruise Industry

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Author Topic: "CRUISE SHIP BLUES" -- A Look at the Underbelly of the Cruise Industry
Rex
First Class Passenger
Member # 1113

posted 01-27-2003 12:05 PM      Profile for Rex     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I purchased this book yesterday and have found it quite informative.

Has anyone else read it, and if so, what are your thoughts on it, please?


Posts: 1413 | From: Philadelphia PA, USA | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
joe at travelpage
Administrator
Member # 622

posted 01-27-2003 12:12 PM      Profile for joe at travelpage   Author's Homepage   Email joe at travelpage   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Here's an overview of the book by "Activist Publisher" New Society...

quote:

Cruise Ship Blues
The Underside of the Cruise Industry
By Ross A. Klein

Cruising is one of the fastest growing industries in the world. Attracting over 12 million passengers a year, cruise ship companies are merging to become behemoths. And cruise ships themselves have swollen dramatically in size, now sometimes carrying over 5,000 people on board. Not surprisingly, this growth is causing huge problems -- problems that the industry would rather not acknowledge, and the potential cruiser would have a hard time discovering.

Cruise Ship Blues reveals the dark under side of this industry. Author Ross Klein first examines the contrast between passenger expectations of luxury and romance fostered by rosy advertising, and the seedier reality of meals, accommodations and facilities on board. He then:

- explodes the myth of the cruise as an all-inclusive vacation, demonstrating that the industry's expectation is to generate an additional 0+ per day per person;
- examines cruise ship safety, ringing the alarm about accidents at sea, passenger security (including the incidence of sexual assault), on-board illnesses, and medical services;
- juxtaposes the industry's environmentally friendly image against its actual behavior and the difficulties of effective regulation;
- exposes the workers' experience in these "sweatshops at sea;" and finally
- contrasts the industry's consumer-friendly façade with its attitude that "everything would run smoothly if it were not for the passengers."

Concluding with a discussion of what can be done to make the cruise business socially and environmentally accountable, Cruise Ship Blues offers a harsh critique as well as a call to political action. It will appeal both to those considering a cruise vacation, as well as to activists and students.

Since 1992, Ross Klein has taken more than 30 cruises in all parts of the world, comprising over 300 days. An Associate Professor of Social Work at Memorial University in St. John's, Newfoundland, he has written widely on the cruise industry.



Posts: 29976 | From: Great Falls, Virginia | Registered: A Long Time Ago!  |  IP: Logged
joe at travelpage
Administrator
Member # 622

posted 01-27-2003 12:18 PM      Profile for joe at travelpage   Author's Homepage   Email joe at travelpage   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Here's another quote from the author Ross A. Klein ...

quote:
...Pulling into Cozumel, on one of my earliest cruises, one of the officers said: “You see that ship over there? The last time we were in the harbour, they took seven bodies off the ship.” He explained that the crew’s dining room had run out of rice and a food riot had erupted. People had died. That’s a whole different perspective from what you read about.

Anybody know more details about the food riot on a cruise ship in Cozumel that left seven crew dead?

Hmmm....

Joe at TravelPage.com


Posts: 29976 | From: Great Falls, Virginia | Registered: A Long Time Ago!  |  IP: Logged
joe at travelpage
Administrator
Member # 622

posted 01-27-2003 12:21 PM      Profile for joe at travelpage   Author's Homepage   Email joe at travelpage   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Here's a link to the author's web site.
Posts: 29976 | From: Great Falls, Virginia | Registered: A Long Time Ago!  |  IP: Logged
Rex
First Class Passenger
Member # 1113

posted 01-27-2003 12:31 PM      Profile for Rex     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Joe, dude, this is kind of scary. All of this S**T going down and no one notices.


I cannot believe I was so naive. I have spoken to the workers of the ships I have been on. They seemed happy. Maybe they were afraid to say something about it?


Posts: 1413 | From: Philadelphia PA, USA | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
ocngypz
First Class Passenger
Member # 1555

posted 01-27-2003 08:17 PM      Profile for ocngypz   Email ocngypz   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
If conditions are so brutal as the author claims, why do so many resign new contracts?????

So much of the author's stories are VERY old....
Celebrity's Meridian???????


Posts: 343 | From: Newport, RI USA | Registered: Sep 2000  |  IP: Logged
Grant
First Class Passenger
Member # 1000

posted 01-28-2003 10:00 PM      Profile for Grant   Email Grant   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Those of us that live in "western" cultures and enjoy a standard of living that allows us to travel, forget that most parts of the world are vastly different. What may seem like sweatshop working conditions to us, and wages that would not support any life other than absolute poverty where we live, can in fact be excellent in the countries where the crew originates. Jobs on cruise ships are very hard to obtain in many countries as the earnings provide very well for the families at home, often the best in their home towns and villages. In the very unlikely event that cruise lines where forced to employ crew and use work conditions found in the countries where the passengers originate, the number of people being able to afford cruising would decline drastically. We should count ourselves fortunate, and be glad that we are able to better the lives of those less fortunate by spending our disposable income on cruise ship vacations. I always leave a ship happy knowing that my fare and my tips have helped others less fortuate than myself.
Posts: 834 | From: Victoria, BC, Canada | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged
gohaze
First Class Passenger
Member # 586

posted 01-28-2003 10:46 PM      Profile for gohaze   Email gohaze   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Grant...you used one very relevent word. "disposable" income. That is something that we are very fortunate to even know what it means, let alone have.

I'm afraid the credentials of the author automatically put him way down my list of credibility. You note how he likes saying they sat at the Captain's table etc. and his complaints strike me as being self induced.

As someone said a lot of his stuff is dated and quoted from biased sources.

NOT a book I would bother with.
....peter


Posts: 1909 | From: Vancouver.BC | Registered: Sep 99  |  IP: Logged
koch
First Class Passenger
Member # 1483

posted 01-29-2003 02:35 AM      Profile for koch   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Grant:
[QB . We should count ourselves fortunate, and be glad that we are able to better the lives of those less fortunate by spending our disposable income on cruise ship vacations. I always leave a ship happy knowing that my fare and my tips have helped others less fortuate than myself.[/QB]

do u really think a cruise passeanger is realy doing this people a favor by spending thier extra money on cruises.
I have been a regular crew member on several companies for many years before i reached my officer position and i agree with u on the situation that many crew members can make far more money on the ship than they would ever do at home ( even if they still work for a month´ly sallary of 600 US$) what nobody considers is that these people spend 25 % of their sallary for phone calls in order to stay in touch with their families ,( they are seperated from them for 10 or 12 month)and for what ever they want to afford on living standard as long as they are on the ships they have to pay the prices of the area they r sailing at ( like europe or US)these prices are usually far higher than the prices in their country of origin.
I personaly experianced cruise ship passengers which gave me the impression that i am back in the age of american slavery - they were treating the crew onboard like slaves - and seemd to enjoy haveing an asian or a south american guy bending over backwards for them and still giving him sh.. for nothing.
Dont think working on cruise ships is a dreamjob or a very enjoable experiance - for most of them its the only way to give thier fammilies a decent living a n provide education for their kids. <most of them would prefer to stay at home and have a real job if the economical situation of the countries would allow to do it. <plenty of Cruise Ship Crew has a very high educational background - i met some they were teachers, doctors or even qualified pilots and they were working as waiters or cabin stewards just because there was no jobs in their fields or they were able to make more money as waiter than in their original profession.
for me it all depends on the attitude of the Passengers - some of them are really bad !!!!!!!!!
think about it next time when feel screeming at ur waiter on a cruise because he made a mistake or because u ordered soemthing and dindt know what it was!!!!!!!!!!!!!
thats just a few notes from a guy who has seen a lot on many cruises as crew member


Posts: 138 | From: all over the 7 seas | Registered: Aug 2000  |  IP: Logged
Malcolm @ cruisepage
Cruise Director
Member # 301

posted 01-29-2003 04:34 AM      Profile for Malcolm @ cruisepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by koch:
...what nobody considers is that these people spend 25 % of their sallary for phone calls in order to stay in touch with their families ...

I can never believe that the cruise lines do not give their crew free or at least discounted phone calls, which they can make onboard.

The sight of crew members gathered around every phone box, at every dockside, presents a rather bad image for the line, in my opinion.

The book: Firstly, Ive not read the book, but I am still going to have my say, even though Im in danger of sounding like a radical Marxist!

Most (all?) business contains an element of exploitation. All business wants to maximise profit by keeping all their overheads as low as possible, such as wages. Much of the travel business and many other service industries give staff low wages and poor working conditions, while we pay high fares, by comparison.

It is good that the darker side of cruising is exposed from time to time, but it is hard to imagine that it will ever be eradicated.

Without getting too political, I favour the British legislation of a legal minimum wage. When it was introduced lots of small bvusinesses said it would break them - yet, it did'nt. It is hardly set at a generious level.

However, a minimum wageis of course is unlikely to apply at sea, under current laws. I also think the Tipping philosophy allows cruise lines to keep wages low.

I can see that Ive opened up a whole tin of worms, now!

[ 01-29-2003: Message edited by: Malcolm @ cruisepage ]


Posts: 19210 | From: Essex (Just Outside London) | Registered: A Long Time Ago!  |  IP: Logged
koch
First Class Passenger
Member # 1483

posted 01-29-2003 04:32 PM      Profile for koch   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Malcolm @ cruisepage:

I can never believe that the cruise lines do not give their crew free or at least discounted phone calls, which they can make onboard.

The sight of crew members gathered around every phone box, at every dockside, presents a rather bad image for the line, in my opinion.

[ 01-29-2003: Message edited by: Malcolm @ cruisepage ]


some cruise lines are actually offering discounted telephone rates for their crew onboard - i remmber for 10 US $ i used to get 6.5 minutes from Alaska to europe.
this rates are still higher than any rate offered by most US telphone card companies so the crew will use it only in emergency
We can not say that all Cruise lines treat their crew like slaves - the big companies offer quiete a lot for crew onboard facilities by now - ( like RCCI has Computers with internet access in crew cabins - use for charge of course - they have bars, pools, and some entertainment programm going on etc. most of them by now have TV and VCR in the cabins and even offer special crew movie channels)
i think the bigger problem are the small companies which have older ships where even the living quaters are pretty bad ( 4 person cabins without facilities - show and toilet somwhere down the hall )these older ships where built this way and there is no space to alter the areas into modern crew facilities -


Posts: 138 | From: all over the 7 seas | Registered: Aug 2000  |  IP: Logged
koch
First Class Passenger
Member # 1483

posted 01-29-2003 04:37 PM      Profile for koch   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
just a llittle note i forgot:

for me its more the arrogant attitude of some passengers which makes a crewmember feel like a slave - and its not the conditions provided by the companies - about the living conditions onbaord and the other things new crew members get well informed and they know what to expect - but they do not get prepared to deal with the attitude of some <passengers


Posts: 138 | From: all over the 7 seas | Registered: Aug 2000  |  IP: Logged
gohaze
First Class Passenger
Member # 586

posted 01-29-2003 06:16 PM      Profile for gohaze   Email gohaze   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Koch...that attitude is found everywhere these days. Ask anyone dealing with the public, the police with demonstrators, particularly of the so-called environmental variety. Airline check-in employees is another, and not least how about the road rage types.
In 3rd. world countries one has to be well up the scale before you have a phone in your home, so those who are lined up to call their families must be doing OK in their own countries. For many of them their standard of living at home is probably better than a lot of the passengers in theirs. The purchasing power of a US$ in a village on a Far East island is vastly different to that in New York City, which is what makes comparisons so difficult.
....peter

Posts: 1909 | From: Vancouver.BC | Registered: Sep 99  |  IP: Logged
Grant
First Class Passenger
Member # 1000

posted 01-29-2003 11:59 PM      Profile for Grant   Email Grant   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
koch: I do not want to get into an argument with you at all, but I for one have never raised a voice with a single crew member on any of my many voyages. I try to find the best in a holiday, and do not get offended easily. Understanding where a crew member comes from helps out, and I would never treat one any differently than I would want myself treated. BUT I do know that if I and other did not spend our money on a cruise, the crew would not have a job. Empty ships do not sail about; so yes I know I am helping an industry and its workers by spending my money. And each time I have handed a service worker a very decent gratuity, I think they were thankful that I did not just walk away with out tipping knowing I would never see them again. Yes I think that is responsible, proper, earned and I'm grateful. Maybe not a favour, but certain appreciated by the recipient.
Posts: 834 | From: Victoria, BC, Canada | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged
Rex
First Class Passenger
Member # 1113

posted 01-30-2003 12:43 PM      Profile for Rex     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
But it also talked about unsanitary conditions aboard some well-known ships (including QE2) and the arm-twisting tactics of the cruise ship industry when it comes to the media.


What got me is how most cruise lines prefer to have dining room staff be of "European" descent, according to Klein's book.


Posts: 1413 | From: Philadelphia PA, USA | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
sam
First Class Passenger
Member # 1704

posted 01-31-2003 08:44 AM      Profile for sam     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I didn't read the book but from what I read here I think the author is trying the make the cruise industry different from other industries worldwide. As Malcolm said all companies want to maximize their profit.

We all work, passengers do have a job otherwise they don't have money to cruise don’t they? When I spend money on a cruise I don’t really want to hear about problems, I want to relax and have fun. This is my vacation and I expect to be served well as well as I serve my clients back home. There are sometimes bad passengers but there are also sometimes bad crew members with bad attitude towards passengers.
There are also very nice passengers who make friends with the crew.
I think that the crew members welfare is not dependent solely on the passengers. Passengers come and go. If a crew member has a really bad passenger he will eventually get rid of him after a week or two. The real problem is to be stuck with a bad boss such as the employees' supervisor because he doesn't leave at the end of the cruise.

Sam

[ 01-31-2003: Message edited by: sam ]


Posts: 25 | From: texas | Registered: Dec 2000  |  IP: Logged
Rex
First Class Passenger
Member # 1113

posted 01-31-2003 11:24 AM      Profile for Rex     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Still, it makes you think...maybe my job ain't as bad as I think it is...
Posts: 1413 | From: Philadelphia PA, USA | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
empressport
First Class Passenger
Member # 2511

posted 01-31-2003 12:14 PM      Profile for empressport     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Malcolm @ cruisepage:

...Without getting too political, I favour the British legislation of a legal minimum wage. When it was introduced lots of small bvusinesses said it would break them - yet, it did'nt. It is hardly set at a generious level.

However, a minimum wageis of course is unlikely to apply at sea, under current laws. I also think the Tipping philosophy allows cruise lines to keep wages low.

[ 01-29-2003: Message edited by: Malcolm @ cruisepage ]


Keep in mind that while the UK and Canada and other countries have minimum wage laws, many American states do not. I believe these are called "right to work" states? {does that mean the right to work for peanuts }


Posts: 464 | From: Vancouver, BC | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
KansasK
First Class Passenger
Member # 1758

posted 01-31-2003 01:50 PM      Profile for KansasK   Email KansasK   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Minimum wage in the United States is set by the federal government, not the states. It is set at $5.15 per hour, which, in any case, is working for peanuts.

Right to work refers to not being required to join a labor union where you work.


Posts: 126 | From: Overland Park, Kansas USA | Registered: Jan 2001  |  IP: Logged
Malcolm @ cruisepage
Cruise Director
Member # 301

posted 01-31-2003 03:22 PM      Profile for Malcolm @ cruisepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by KansasK:
Minimum wage in the United States is set by the federal government, not the states. It is set at $5.15 per hour, which, in any case, is working for peanuts.

The UK minimum wage is penuts too, however I recall that Carnival (for example) pay their unskilled crew $1 per day!


Posts: 19210 | From: Essex (Just Outside London) | Registered: A Long Time Ago!  |  IP: Logged
topgun
First Class Passenger
Member # 928

posted 01-31-2003 04:00 PM      Profile for topgun     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I have just returned from a two week trip on board Sunbird. Passengers were nearly all British.

Our cabin steward had crossed over to the ship from Holland America Cruises. He claimed that he had a better deal with the new ship and liked the way the passengers treated him. Thats as far as he would go.

Most crew members use cellphones to call home. I took our busboys ashore at his request to get it reloaded.

They do have their own computer access, He wanted digital photos which we had taken to send them on to his family. He now has them and got back to me today acknowleding receipt. This almost extends the vacation.


Posts: 759 | From: Burlington ont,canada Cruise center of North America | Registered: Nov 1999  |  IP: Logged
psycoma
Just Boarded
Member # 3636

posted 02-02-2003 07:20 AM      Profile for psycoma   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Please excuse the 'newbie' from butting into the conversation here, but I believe I may have something to add to the discussion. While I have not yet been on a cruise (Going on #1 in October!!), I have worked solely in the public service industry for the whole of my work 'career', and I can tell you from personal experience that it can take just one nice customer to make your whole day, but it can take just one rude one to ruin your whole week.

I have recently given my notice to my present employer (of 4 years) due in part to the fact that giving them 10 months notice for time off I was requesting to go on my cruise was seemingly not enough and they were not going to allow me the time off. Right now (until Feb. 14th) I work in the video rental business. I am an assistant store manager with a major video chain. I won't say which one but (coughflockclustercough) it has to be the WORST working experience of my entire life. Bar none. And I have done just about everything. Telemarketing, food service (both fast food and sit down restaurant), grocery store, drug store, convenience store. And I have never in my entire life waited on a ruder, meaner, and generally nastier group of human beings than the one's who rent videos.

I have had my nametag ripped off my shirt, been verbally (and physically)abused, been accused of theft (because they had a late fee, I must have surely taken the movie home with me because they know they returned it on time), and in general treated very badly. I get that one customer who I know, and who knows me, who I can talk to, chat with, laugh with, and have fun for the 5 minutes or so they are in the store, and it will just make my day. However, on the flipside of that, I can turn around to see a particularly nasty customer just pull up in the parkinglot and my day is shot. Perhaps the next couple of days.

I now go out of my way to make sure that when I am the customer, I treat that employee better than I would hope to be treated. I never want to be the customer who, when the employees see you coming, run for the back and whoever's the pokey one gets stuck with the sale. I realize that it's me who's spending the money, and it's me who's on the vacation, and it's them who are supposed to "serve" me. But I also realize that it only takes just a smile, just a little patience and understanding to realize that maybe, just maybe, the last person they "served" before me was the one that they got stuck with because everyone else headed for the back.

So, short of the wait staff coming to my table, dumping my food in my lap, then laughing and pointing at me while informing me that I have to wash the late sitting's dishes, there will be no way that they will get anything less than a couple of dollars over the "suggested" tipping amount.

And as far as how the employers treat them, and their subsequent good or bad attitudes because of that, well, IMHO the staff have no more control over that than the cruise line does over the fact that the weather for the entire length of the trip was hurricane winds and rain.

Sorry this was so long


Posts: 7 | From: half way between heaven and a bagel with cream cheese | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged

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