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» Cruise Talk   » Cruise Lines   » Celebrity Sues Pod Producers

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Author Topic: Celebrity Sues Pod Producers
joe at travelpage
Administrator
Member # 622

posted 08-07-2003 04:49 PM      Profile for joe at travelpage   Author's Homepage   Email joe at travelpage   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
From Celebrity:

quote:
After repeated attempts to resolve issues satisfactorily, Celebrity Cruises filed a $300 million lawsuit today against Rolls Royce and Alstom Power Conversion, co-producers of a ship pod- propulsion system, to recover lost revenue and costs associated with failing pods. The lawsuit was filed in state court in Miami-Dade County, Florida.

The lawsuit charges that the Rolls Royce and Alstom Power Conversion pods, brand-named Mermaid, have failed repeatedly, resulting in cancelled cruises and thousands of disappointed guests. These recurring failures cost the company hundreds of million of dollars, for which the lawsuit seeks restitution.

The lawsuit further claims that Rolls Royce and Alstom Power Conversion misrepresented their product, which was "defectively designed" and "deceptively and fraudulently marketed."

Mermaid pods are installed on four Celebrity ships -- Millennium, Summit, Infinity and Constellation. All four had one or more mechanical or electrical problems with the pods, which caused the ships to be taken out of water -- and out of service -- to repair.

"Unfortunately, the Mermaid pods have not lived up to the manufacturers' promise or to Celebrity's high operating standards," said Jack Williams, president and chief operating officer of Celebrity. "This has created intolerable consequences for our guests, and imposed unacceptable conditions on our company."

There are -- and have been -- no safety issues with any of these ships. All have been given clearance to sail by the U.S. Coast Guard and the ships' classification society. Even with the problems, safety was never compromised.

"Guests and travel agents should continue to have full confidence in the Celebrity brand," Williams said. "We have modified the more troublesome components, and we are working on a permanent solution.

"In the meantime, guests should know that any cruise we have to cancel, as a result of any issue with these pods, we will back with a full refund and a free cruise."

Propulsion pods consist of an electrical motor and a propeller. They are typically favored by cruise operators because the pod's design -- a 360 degree rotating unit -- provides a number of advantages, including greater maneuverability.


Joe at TravelPage.com


Posts: 29976 | From: Great Falls, Virginia | Registered: A Long Time Ago!  |  IP: Logged
CGT
First Class Passenger
Member # 3531

posted 08-07-2003 06:39 PM      Profile for CGT        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
This just does not bode well for the Queen Mary. Did they *have* to choose the crappy Mermaids? Couldn't they have installed Azipods instead?
Posts: 2760 | From: New York, New York, USA | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
gohaze
First Class Passenger
Member # 586

posted 08-07-2003 06:58 PM      Profile for gohaze   Email gohaze   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Also from "Seatrade"....

The French government will keep Alstom afloat by participating in a €2.8bn ($3.2bn) refinancing that gives the government a 31.5% stake in the industrial giant. Alstom is the troubled parent of shipbuilder Chantiers de l’Atlantique.
But there is concern that the European Commission could sink the plan if Brussels decides the bailout constitutes illegal state aid, and some analysts warn the rescue is only a short-term solution.

Looks like Alstom is losing it's shirt on the QM2!!! And bet Princess is happy it got it's 2 ships out of that yard. It doesn't have any more orders on the books.

....peter


Posts: 1909 | From: Vancouver.BC | Registered: Sep 99  |  IP: Logged
Steve Read (sread)
First Class Passenger
Member # 788

posted 08-07-2003 07:35 PM      Profile for Steve Read (sread)   Author's Homepage   Email Steve Read (sread)   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
What's the difference between an Azipod and a Mermaid?
Posts: 926 | From: Locksbottom, Kent, England | Registered: Jul 99  |  IP: Logged
Waynaro
First Class Passenger
Member # 3484

posted 08-07-2003 09:24 PM      Profile for Waynaro   Email Waynaro   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
sread said:
What's the difference between an Azipod and a Mermaid?
I think it is the same thing, but just a different brand? i.e.: Fords and Chevys?

Congrads to Celebrity for doing whats right. I wonder will this affect future contracts?...


Posts: 6108 | From: Vallejo,CA : California Maritime Academy!!! | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
Barryboat
First Class Passenger
Member # 33

posted 08-07-2003 10:12 PM      Profile for Barryboat   Author's Homepage   Email Barryboat   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Pods are not a cookie cutter design are they? Weren't the pods for QM2 custom built? You would think Rolls Royce worked out the kinks by now. I wonder if Alstom will have to retool, redesign a new set of pods for the Celebrity ship? Are there other companies building pods?
Posts: 1851 | From: Bloomington, Minnesota (Home to the Mall of America) | Registered: Mar 99  |  IP: Logged
gohaze
First Class Passenger
Member # 586

posted 08-07-2003 10:45 PM      Profile for gohaze   Email gohaze   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
ABB builds 'Azipods' and were the original developers of the idea. They started off with small ones and gradually increased the size, fitting them on all sorts of vessels up to 120,000ton icebreaking tankers. Their first one on a cruiseship was Carnival's ELATION and RCI went in for them in a big way.
The important thing is that they gradually built up the technology with a lot of different experience and thus they have got rid of the problems a long way back.
Mermaids on the other hand built by Alstom and Rolls were designed for big cruiseships right off. Now they're paying the price for being over confident of their capabilities and are having to do their learning on the ships in service. A very poor and expensive way to do business unless you can get the French Taxpayer to pick up the tab.

....peter


Posts: 1909 | From: Vancouver.BC | Registered: Sep 99  |  IP: Logged
CGT
First Class Passenger
Member # 3531

posted 08-07-2003 11:50 PM      Profile for CGT        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Well I just hope QM2 benefits from Celebrities troubles.
Posts: 2760 | From: New York, New York, USA | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
Dolphins
First Class Passenger
Member # 2043

posted 08-08-2003 10:37 PM      Profile for Dolphins   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Where is CruiseNY? We could use his expertise on this subject.
Posts: 324 | From: Commack, New York | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Amerikanis
First Class Passenger
Member # 1835

posted 08-09-2003 08:58 AM      Profile for Amerikanis   Email Amerikanis   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Please remember: Ships delivered by Meyer Shipyards in Germany are running...

...with Pods or with other Propulsion


Posts: 1034 | From: Gutach, Black Forest, Germany | Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged
gohaze
First Class Passenger
Member # 586

posted 08-10-2003 10:25 AM      Profile for gohaze   Email gohaze   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Again....from Seatrade.

Carnival to study pod claims
8/8/2003

Carnival Corp. -- whose Queen Mary 2 is fitted with four Mermaid pods -- is examining Royal Caribbean’s claim against the pod producers to see if it discloses anything new from a technical perspective, a high-level Carnival official told Seatrade Insider. ‘Much of Celebrity’s complaint is in effect historical,’ the Europe-based Carnival official said. ‘We expect to benefit from the experience which Celebrity has unfortunately had with being the first company to specify a prototype product.’
Carnival Corp. chairman and ceo Micky Arison described his company’s relationship with both Chantiers de l’Atlantique and Rolls-Royce as ‘excellent.’ He told Seatrade Insider that Carnival officials are ‘working cooperatively’ with the yard and the pod producers ‘to provide the best expert verification that the steps taken by Rolls-Royce and Alstom Power Conversion to remedy the technical issues which gave rise to the Celebrity problems have been fully rectified in the pods supplied for QM2.’

I'll bet Carnival is putting the pressure on Alstom and Rolls, not only over the pods but the also the money problems. Alstom is getting bailed out by the French Gov'mt.
"first company to specify a prototype product" They should have got "Azipods" a proven product.

....peter


Posts: 1909 | From: Vancouver.BC | Registered: Sep 99  |  IP: Logged
cncservo
First Class Passenger
Member # 532

posted 08-10-2003 08:55 PM      Profile for cncservo     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I believe in past posts one of the problems was the thrust bearings were failing. If one could imagine the force as the props turn and exert force on the bearings that absorb the force of the prop vs the pushing of the ship. Ya know what I mean Vern?

[ 08-10-2003: Message edited by: cncservo ]


Posts: 170 | Registered: May 99  |  IP: Logged
moodus2
First Class Passenger
Member # 2414

posted 08-11-2003 10:38 AM      Profile for moodus2   Email moodus2   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
a gas turbine on the wing of a
aircraft is basically the same
thing. bearing design and material that the bearing is constructed from pays a major
roll in the longevity of the
bearing, plus a proper lubrication system.
i wonder why rolls royce has not
been able to over come this problem since they design and
build gas turbines.

Posts: 473 | From: moodus,ct. | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
Cambodge
First Class Passenger
Member # 906

posted 08-12-2003 11:25 AM      Profile for Cambodge   Email Cambodge   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Impact protection?

Every now and then, I come up with an idea which may have eluded the most astute of technical minds.

The propellors on pod-fitted ships face forward. Conventionally, they face aft. Now in the case of a ship moving forward, at say, 23 knots, if an obstruction is encountered, say a floating container or a large floating log (we are not talkiong icebergs or derelicts here), a conventionally propelled vessel would whack it with the bow, and the object would be essentially diverted along the flanks of the vessel before it encounters the propellors, if, in fact it does.

But on pod-fitted, "tractor" propellors would tend to draw in the object and strike it. or so I hypothesize. Ok, such an impact would have a signficant effect on the thrust bearings, would it not?

And could such phenomena contribute to eventual, possibly premature thrust-bearing failures?

I had similar thoughts when the Boeing "jetfoil" began service on Puget Sound, some years back. I was workiong on a contract on the USN's high-speed ships program, and remember making such observations to my colleagues.

Well, the jetfoils began hitting large submerged logs in Puget Sound, the inevitable byprodcts of a timber industry working with BIG logs, (Douglas Firs and such) to the extent that operations were eventually abandoned. Other economic factors were involved, but........

So has anyone considered the "impact factor" on f'wd-facing propulsion screws?

Just wondering....


Posts: 2149 | From: St. Michaels MD USA , the town that fooled the British! | Registered: Nov 1999  |  IP: Logged
gohaze
First Class Passenger
Member # 586

posted 08-12-2003 12:18 PM      Profile for gohaze   Email gohaze   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Considering that they use Azipods on icebreakers - the new USCG breaker for the Lakes is going to have them - Not I would think any different from normal ones.
Hydrofoils run all the time now between Seattle and Victoria and they don't have the problem. Mind you, there's a lot less debris in the waters now than there used to be. There's a trap that collects a lot of the smaller stuff on the Fraser, but the change to more logs being barged and a lot less booms has made a big difference.

.....peter


Posts: 1909 | From: Vancouver.BC | Registered: Sep 99  |  IP: Logged
Cambodge
First Class Passenger
Member # 906

posted 08-12-2003 02:52 PM      Profile for Cambodge   Email Cambodge   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Peter...

I stand corrected! That is what happens when you are out of the information-flow loop for more than ten years!

C:


Posts: 2149 | From: St. Michaels MD USA , the town that fooled the British! | Registered: Nov 1999  |  IP: Logged

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