Must have had a deadline to meet regardless of completion................

I also notice that on the main fleet page they boast about having a young fleet. The fact that this text got included in the new site seems to lend credence to the plans for dumping H&Z as opposed to refurbishing them.

Additionally, I notice that they have a destination map featuring the entire globe. One can only assume that this bodes well for future international expansion, as what line would show half the earth when they don't even sail there.

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Originally posted by jsea:

Additionally, I notice that they have a destination map featuring the entire globe. One can only assume that this bodes well for future international expansion, as what line would show half the earth when they don't even sail there.

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quote:

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Originally posted by CGT:
I think you're stretching it. Maybe Celebrity will expand to include Africa, Australia/New Zealand or Asia someday, but I don't think that map is any indication of such. It's just a map of the world, showing where they DO sail. That's it.

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Fashion czars will be most-pleased with the following section on the new page (this link might not function):

Proper dining attire
http://origin.celebrity.com/whyceleb/he roSingleTxtSub.do;jsessionid=0000LL7b1ULQx85aAwwJsKy005F:1028etrd4?pagename=proper_dining_attire

Edited for terrible spelling.

[ 12-10-2004: Message edited by: jsea ]

quote:

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Originally posted by jsea:
..as what line would show half the earth when they don't even sail there.

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Anumber of cruise lines do!

[ 12-10-2004: Message edited by: Malcolm @ cruisepage ]

quote:

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Originally posted by jsea:

Fashion czars will be most-pleased with the following section on the new page

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Almost.

[ 12-10-2004: Message edited by: CGT ]

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Originally posted by CGT:

I Love it. I'm so pleased. I wish other lines would do the same. *cough* PRINCESS *cough*

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Careful, you might cough yourself into a stupor. Princess is going in the total opposite direction. There is NOTHING traditional about them and they are becoming more and more mass-market with each new 113,000 gt ship that is introduced. You might want to focus on a line besides Princess *if* dressing for dinner and some form of traditional cruising appeals to you. These days, Princess is neck and neck with Carnival.

Basically, you have three major lines to choose from (in N. America) if a bit of shipboard tradition is important to you.

Cunard
Holland America
Celebrity

Outside the US there are a few others to add, such as P&O.

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Originally posted by eroller:

Basically, you have three major lines to choose from (in N. America) if a bit of shipboard tradition is important to you.

Cunard
Holland America
Celebrity

Outside the US there are a few others to add, such as P&O.

Ernie

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Yeah I know, but I wouldn't go so far as to say they are neck-a-neck with Carnvial. When Princess' interiors are gaudy vomit inducing nightmares and a passenger starts falling overboard each week, then I would agree with that.

Until then....

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Originally posted by CGT:

Yeah I know, but I wouldn't go so far as to say they are neck-a-neck with Carnvial. When Princess' interiors are gaudy vomit inducing nightmares and a passenger starts falling overboard each week, then I would agree with that.

Until then....

But freshwater pools that are open 24/7 is such a big deal for me. I love swimming at 2 am. I'm also so glad QM2 is freshwater, even if it is not open 24/7.

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I agree that Princess has the best pools afloat. I guess the decor is subjective but I have sailed a couple Carnival ships where I actually prefer the decor over Princess. I'm just bored with the "Macaroni Grill / Cheesecake Factory" generic chain look of Princess Cruises.

While the decor on Princess and Carnival varies, I think anymore the passengers are one in the same .... at least on the 7-day Caribbean cruises. Both companies are pining after the same demographic and rates on both companies are comparable.

quote:

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Originally posted by eroller:

Both companies are pining after the same demographic and rates on both companies are comparable.

Ernie

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Originally posted by CGT:

If that is true than that begs the question..why would Carnival pitt two of it's own brands against one another? And if the Carnival clientele is what Princess is going after and Princess is supposedly positioning themselves against Royal Caribbean, then Royal Caribbean must be of Carnival Calibre as well. Likewise Carnival must also be positioning itself against Royal Caribbean.

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Exactly! All these mass-market lines ... Princess, Royal Caribbean, Carnival, and NCL are after the same customer. Each line is a little different and has it's own style, but at the end of the day they are all mass-market and the customers are basically interchangeable.

Regarding Princess, I don't think Carnival really knows where to place them in their family of companies. They are really at the same level of Carnival, but of course they offer worldwide itineraries which gives Princess a broader appeal. Personally I think Princess is two brands in one. You have the smaller, more upscale ships sailing world itineraries, and then you have the mega-ships dedicated to the 7-day market which are more in line with Carnival. I think Carnival places HAL above Princess where as they used to be considered competitors (I think they still are). Carnival desperately wanted to keep Princess out of the hands RCI at any cost, and I don't think they fully thought through how Princess would fit into the Carnival portfolio. It will be interesting to see where Princess is in ten years.

quote:

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Originally posted by eroller:
Both companies are pining after the same demographic and rates on both companies are comparable.

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I can't speak from experience, but I would have though that Princess are a notch or two upscale in terms of 'image'and market niche.

Princess ships are haldly floating 'Fun' resorts, in the same way that Carnival ships are. The decor of course cannot be compared, either.

Just because the decor is boring and toned down does not make it an "upscale" product. In reality Carnival has the better food, service, and entertainment, not to mention larger standard cabins. Princess may "feel" more classy, but they still have the constant art auctions, inch of gold crap, revenue producing PA's, bingo twice a day, table sales in the lobby, belly flop contests in the pool, etc., etc., etc. It's all perception rather than reality ... and I see it's got you fooled as well.

Yes, the decor is different ... but the products (and even the passengers) are not. Once again I'm speaking specifically of the 7-day market on the large mega-ships. I'm also not suggesting Princess is a bad product. They are quite good at what they do, but I also don't place them on a higher pedestal then where they belong. With more and more mega-ships coming online with Princess, I think they will become more and more mass-market. In fact they have no choice in order to fill all those berths, not to mention the fact that you can't really offer a luxury or premium experience to ships that carry 3000+ passengers.

Princess used to be more in line with HAL and Celebrity, but this is no longer true. Princess is now head to head with Carnival, Royal Caribbean, and NCL.

As I mentioned earlier, Princess today is really two lines. The mass-market ships that cater to 3000 passengers on 7-day cruises, and the smaller, more intimate ships with the higher crew/passenger ratios that cruise to more exotic destinations. With Grand Class ships now cruising to more exotic destinations, I can't help but think that Princess will eventually get rid of all it's smaller tonnage.

It's much easier for Carnival Corp. to own and market two mass-market products, rather than two upper-premium products. They have obviously chosen HAL to be their upper-premium product ... and are spending a great deal of money updating the ships, keeping the size at a manageable level, and implementing the "Signature of Excellence" features. Princess will fall in line with Carnival Cruise Lines, although there is no reason why two mass-market products can't have a completely different feel. Carnival with fantasy interiors and promoted as "contemporary fun spirit", and Princess which is promoted as "affordable luxury". The Carnival food chain will allow for both, and the mass-market in the US can easily support both lines.

the KAPITAN KHLEBNIKOV still belongs to the Far Eastern Shipping Company.
Together with Quark Expeditions, Celebrity Cruises has an allottment on these cruises so that they can sell them as well.

quote:

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Originally posted by eroller:
Princess used to be more in line with HAL and Celebrity, but this is no longer true. Princess is now head to head with Carnival, Royal Caribbean, and NCL.

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That's interesting Ernie, I did not realise that. I have cruised neither line. However their reputation here in the UK, probably created in part by their glossy brochures (the UK ones, that is) really look like they are selling an upscale product. Although, I appreciate that there is more to upscale, than a mere brochure.

Carnival do not tend to market their cruises in the UK, very much.

I think I'm right in saying that the price of Princess cruises for us here in the UK is quite high. Like P&O and Cunard, they are far from budget lines.

[ 12-13-2004: Message edited by: Malcolm @ cruisepage ]

The sad thing to me is I STARTED cruising with Princess in the mid-seventies and really miss the upscale product they offered...

[ 12-13-2004: Message edited by: Caronia II ]