quote:

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Bargain cruises are far from plain sailing with a British passport
Gillian Glover
March 8, 2005

BEING British frequently poses a significant disadvantage to bargain-conscious cruise ship passengers. The cruise market is the only sector of the travel trade which has continued to expand in the last decade, and cruise sales in the UK outstrip all other European countries, making it second only to the United States in volume.

Yet visit the most popular cruise discount website, Vacationstogo.com and you will find a US list and a UK list, the first four times the length of the second. And this is not dependent on the ports. On 2 May, the Cunard ship QE2 sails from Southampton on a 12-day cruise of the Mediterranean. It is being offered at 60 per cent off. Fancy it? Well forget it, unless you hold an American passport. For though the ship flies the Red Ensign and begins this cruise in the UK, the reduction is not available to the British.

But Cunard (now, like the majority of cruise lines, owned by the megalithic Carnival Corporation) is not the only discriminatory company on the high seas. P&O-affiliated Princess Line will schmooze Americans for a ten-day trip around northern Europe, from Southampton to Amsterdam, leaving on 22 May with 55 per cent discounts - as long as you aren’t British.

If you are, the charming chap at Vacations To Go will tell you how sorry he is, but that the cruise line does not permit these discounts to be sold in the UK. Why? "You had better take that up with them."

I have tried. Both Cunard and Princess, after a lengthy pause, finally replied to the effect that their brochures were tailor-made for each country, and price differences reflected air fares and other considerations. But there are no air fares included in the Vacations to Go package. It is a cruise-only price. What possible difference should a passport make to that?

Perhaps Royal Caribbean, Celebrity, Costa, Oceania and the many other cruise lines who favour US customers above all, would like to reply.

The Scotsman

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I’ve been telling you this for years! We call it ‘Rip-Off’ Britain.

In the USA you ‘plie em high, and sell em cheap’. However, here we ‘pile em low and sell them as expensively as possible! This is why cruising in the UK in primarily a pursuit of the wealthy elderly; just look at P&O, Cunard, Saga, and Fred Olsen’s clientele.

It not just cruising, EVERYTHING we buy in the U.K is expensive. Businesses clearly ‘price fix’ in order to maintain the high prices.

Just to add insult to injury, we pay high taxes and have a lower average income than America. This gives us less disposable income. This explains why I cruise once a year, if I’m lucky!

The price disparities between the UK and USA are epidemic. I remember looking at RCI's web site. The excursions for a Caribbean cruise on RCI.com were cheaper than on RCI.co.uk – explain that!

The passport thing looks wrong - its probably based on the billing address of your credit card. Im sure a Brit living in the US would get the US rate.

[ 03-08-2005: Message edited by: cruisemole ]

Yes, you are right.

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Originally posted by Tom Burke:
...under the single market, any EU citizen must be able to buy anyhting offered in any EU territory, regardless of where they reside.

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Never the less, such pricing discrimination is common. Here is an article from todays UK Newspaper, the 'Daily Mail'.

The Sunshine Mugs

Why Thomson is charging Britons 45% morte than Europeans for exactly the same package tour?

By Sean Poulter

BRITONS are paying up to £237 a
head more than German and
Dutch travellers for exactly the
same holiday in the sun

Trading standards officers called last
night for the European Commission to
investigate the 45 per cent premium,
which was uncovered by the consumer
watchdog Which?

A week-long mid-September package at
the Riu Palace Maspalomas Hotel in Gran
Canaria is priced at £760 for British holi-
daymakers. But the same deal can be
booked in Germany for £575 and in Holland
for £523.

For a party of four the differential is
almost £1,000. In Britain the bill would be
£3,040, in Germany £2,300 and in Holland
£2,092.

The holiday highlighted by investigators
is offered by Thomson, whose German par-
ent company TUI sells the same package
on the continent.

TUI owns the hotel, which gives it control
over prices and service standards.

Even though they are paying considerably
less, TUI's German clients are also given
the perk of free rail transfer to the airport
while British customers have to buy their
own tickets or drive and pay the cost of
parking.

Bruce Treloar, package holiday expert at
the Trading Standards Institute, said the
practice may be illegal.

'British travellers will feel totally
aggrieved by this news,' he said. 'The EU is
supposed to be a free single market. There
is no good reason why companies should be
allowed to favour one consumer against
another or one nation against another.

'The European Commission should have a
look at this.'

Which? said the brochures in
Germany and Holland were
also much clearer in terms of
resort information and pricing.

Bob Tolliday, editor of the
magazine Holiday Which?,
described the price difference
between the three countries
as 'absurd'.

'If TUI can offer these prices
to holidaymakers in Germany
and Holland, they should be
able to offer them to the Brits
as well,' he said yesterday.
'The British-booked package
had the same departure date,
same flight time, same hotel
and the same standard of
room.

'The holiday we looked at
was not out of the ordinary or
unusual in any way. Any price
difference should be minimal.
But there was a huge mark-up.

'The price disparity is so
great that I would expect the
same thing will be happening
with other holidays sold by the
company.'

He said a ruling that the
discrimination is illegal could set
a precedent for holiday com-
panies and other sectors.

The Daily Mail revealed on
Saturday how UK travellers
trying to pre-book entry to
Disneyworld in Florida have a
restricted choice of expensive
tickets compared with Euro-
peans and Americans. Last
year. Center Pares was charg-
ing British families up to £126
a week more than their European
counterparts to stay at
its continental sites. This dif-
ferential has now narrowed.

There has also been evidence
that Britons are charged more
to fly the Atlantic or travel on
Eurostar than other nationali-
ties.

The European Commission
is currently investigating

Apple over the fact it charges
British music lovers more to
download tracks from its
iTunes service than users from
other EU nations.

A spokesman for TUI UK
defended the pricing policy.
He said: 'We are a British com-
pany and operate separately
to other TUI companies
within Europe. TUI UK's holi-
day prices are relevant and
competitive to the British hol-
iday market.

'Prices will reflect the local
market and demand for holi-
days in particular resorts.

'It must also be remembered
that there are different costs
involved in the running of the
businesses in these countries
in relation to staff and taxes.'

Thomas Cook, which is also
German-owned, said: 'It does n't
make sense to compare
holiday prices from different
countries as there are so many
factors that vary.

One cannot 'cheat' these days using friends' addresses or credit cards, as the immigration forms reveal all. It is not us 'cheating' it's the lines cheating us. UK agents do have extra outgoings to cover, ABTA, ATOL bonding etc, and yes we are 'safer' when a company, agent/airline/cruisline goes down, and have extra means of complaint proceedures, but it's not often that the protection is actually used, and moneywise a credit card should suffice.

When it comes to within Europe, there are differentials regarding airport/aircraft fees and so on, but those figures above smack of profiteering. I can accept maybe £30/£40, but not £200. Centre Parcs do not include flights, so all prices should be the same [I have been twice in the UK in the last 2 years and they are not good value anyhow, another crossed off ] Cruisemole, it is based on residency, not whatever passport one has.

Becuse we live on an island and all the companies 'price fix' to avoid a price war which would force prices down.

We have no choice but to pay the going rate for goods and services, becuse no one sells them much cheaper.

Walmart took over one of our major supermarkets. Yet several years late, they are as expensive as any of our supermarkets.

OK so taxes & cost of doing buisiness are higher in UK but whose fault is that?

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Originally posted by Globaliser:
I'm sure that someone who's sufficiently litigious could think of a way to bring a complaint under the Race Relations Act 1976. ("Race" includes "nationality" in UK race discrimination law.) A decently-argued case could very well shake the tree.

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Years ago there was an investigation into why UK Music CD's cost twice that of the USA. The answer was 'profitering'. Nothing changed, though.

Nothing will change within the travel Industy, either, in the short term. There is too much money to be made.

quote:

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Originally posted by Globaliser:
I'm sure that someone who's sufficiently litigious could think of a way to bring a complaint under the Race Relations Act 1976. ("Race" includes "nationality" in UK race discrimination law.) A decently-argued case could very well shake the tree.

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As Pam correctly points out the differences are based on residency, not passport (or race). Such a suit would get nowhere.

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Originally posted by Brian_O:

As Pam correctly points out the differences are based on residency, not passport (or race). Such a suit would get nowhere.

Brian

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Perfectly correct... but what about "Human Rights Legislation and this so called multi ethnic globalised society we all live in? HRL deliberately precludes discrimination as per the above... so fight it head on!

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Originally posted by The Merchant:

Perfectly correct... but what about "Human Rights Legislation and this so called multi ethnic globalised society we all live in? HRL deliberately precludes discrimination as per the above... so fight it head on!

John Hagan (The Merchant)

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That is pure nonsense. There are no human rights issues whatsoever involved. To suggest otherwise shows a complete lack of insight into human rights and trivialises a serious issue which affects millions of people far less fortunate than yourself.

I have noticed before that in the UK there is a (willful ?) confusion between these two institutions.

After having read this, I think a deep inquiry in British (holiday) pricing by the Euroepan Commission is very much in order. There can be some price differences, but there should be no (since 1/1/1993) no prohibition of sales to people residiing in other countries (USA is other matter as no member of EU)

The differnece in quality in life between UK and Benelux and Germany is not that great. There all kinds of legal requirements here for travel agents,so that can not be a reason for the price difference.
There can be a slight difference in VAT between the countries.

When I booked the Oceanic, the brochure price in Belgium wasindeed higher than the prices on the Spanish websites. However, with all the extras (port taxes, etc) added, it came up about the same.

Here the advertised price has to be really all in : no to be added taxes, fees, etc. the advertised price is waht you pay.

It has alwas surprised me that the EU Commission sanctioned the merger between Carnival an dP&O PRincess : it is clear from many things that they have a dominant position, they clearly use.

I see what i can find

J

[ 03-09-2005: Message edited by: Johan ]

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Originally posted by Brian_O:
That is pure nonsense. There are no human rights issues whatsoever involved.

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Originally posted by cruisemole:
Do we Brits actually pay VAT on foreign cruises?

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You can never escape death and taxes!

If we book in the UK, yes we pay VAT (Value Added Tax). If we manage to book abroad (difficult as we have already said) we pay the local taxation.

I think most places in the first world have a 10-15% purchase tax, although we Brits have 17.5% VAT.

Originally our VAT was a tax on 'luxury' goods, non-luxuries were exempt. However it was extended and now most things have VAT added.

The variations in local purchase tax do not account for the sometimes wide variations in cruise fares.

[ 03-09-2005: Message edited by: Malcolm @ cruisepage ]

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Originally posted by cruisemole:
Do we Brits actually pay VAT on foreign cruises?

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If you buy them in the UK i think you do

quote:

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Originally posted by cruisemole:
Do we Brits actually pay VAT on foreign cruises?

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Originally posted by Globaliser:
I think not, but I'll be happy to be corrected if I'm wrong.

Transport is zero-rated for UK VAT. Also, services provided entirely outside the UK don't fall into the UK VAT regime.

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I must apologise, I was too quickl. I don't think Belgium and UK VAT regime will be that different (except in tarif, which is 6% and 21% here)

I checked my QE2 invoice : the main portion of what I pay is exempt from VAT, and this will indeed be because it is (international) maritime transport.
I pay however 21% VATon the "VAT Basic amount", which is the forfaitary profit marge fo the T/A on this cruise.

The service and profit of the T/A is ofcourse a service renderd in Belgium, which is under the VAT regime.

I guess UK won't be that different.

Worth the effort checking your invoices of cruises past and future ?

quote:

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Originally posted by Globaliser:
Transport is zero-rated for UK VAT.

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