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Ernst wrote:
So do "they" know that their ships are ugly, and "hide" them?

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Ernst, are you saying that the models might scare the customers away?

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Originally posted by bulbousbow:

Ernst, are you saying that the models might scare the customers away?

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Cheers

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Not the models, but maybe the ships. Sorry for the bold statement, but I wanted to get the discussion started. I have the impression that cruise lines do not advertise with (the exterior appearance of) their ships. This is not only limited to a "lack of models" - they are expensive but they get really a lot of attention - but there is also a "lack" of ship photos. Maybe it has to do with the fact that they want to "bind" their customers to the brand and not to a certain ship, which might be sold or scrapped somewhen. But maybe it also as something to do with the appearance of their ships - and what people expect. I think the value of a nice looking ship is undertimated, as this for sure helps selling cruises. - not to talk about how ship models are underestimated

[ 04-25-2005: Message edited by: Ernst ]

It seems that now, more than ever, the Lines would want to distinguish and differentiate their ships by showing them off, but the Marketing departments have other ideas!

And yes, models are very expensive and cruise lines are reluctant to have them made as give-aways. Usually the top agencies will be "awarded" a small model by some cruise lines, which usually ends up in the Manager's office!

Rich

[ 04-25-2005: Message edited by: Linerrich ]

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Originally posted by Linerrich:
I think the general public really doesn't understand or care about the exterior appearance of ships, not in the way that WE do! The cruise lines are focused on the on-board product, [...]
[ 04-25-2005: Message edited by: Linerrich ]

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I am not so sure. A lot of people think cruise ships today look like some decades ago - I would guess most of my friends are not aware of the fact that cabins can have windows not to talk about balconies - No doubt the onboard expierience is utmost important - passengers are per definition usually ON the ship - but I am sure the exterior of most ships would frighten a lot of people.

I'm thinking Celebrity right now. some of those ship styles are pretty hard to look at. Very hard lines, and not pretty at all.

Yes, but are the "soles" (souls) you spoke with really shiplovers like ourselves, or just people off the street?

I've been on umpteen different cruises where people on deck in various ports marvel at how beautiful the big new floating boxes are, and they inevitably put down any classic liner which happens to be in sight, even the dear old NORWAY.

Rich

[ 04-25-2005: Message edited by: Linerrich ]

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Originally posted by Linerrich:
I think the general public really doesn't understand or care about the exterior appearance of ships, not in the way that WE do!

Rich

[ 04-25-2005: Message edited by: Linerrich ]

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Originally posted by Linerrich:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by hi Seas:
[qb]Yes, I'm not sure about that either Rich, a few soles i've spoken to seem to echo my feelings about the stying of some of today cruisers.

Yes, but are the "soles" (souls) you spoke with really shiplovers like ourselves, or just people off the street?

I've been on umpteen different cruises where people on deck in various ports marvel at how beautiful the big new floating boxes are, and they inevitably put down any classic liner which happens to be in sight, even the dear old NORWAY.

Rich

[ 04-25-2005: Message edited by: Linerrich ]

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Prior to that time, remember the Celebrity brochures that had photo after photo of the interiors and exteriors of their ships? Ahhh how I miss that only to be replaced with stock photography of an island and staged shots on board.

Their view is that mass market America wants a memorable "Vacation experience" to compete with land based resorts and WDW. Whether we believe it or not, most American's haven't cruised and many are afraid of being at sea...sad, right?

The same goes for model kits, how many cruise companies commission a model kit of their ship these days?

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Linerrich wrote:
I think the general public really doesn't understand or care about the exterior appearance of ships, not in the way that WE do!

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I agree. The general public are not always connoisseurs, like most of us here.

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The cruise lines are focused on the on-board product, so you'll see lots of photos of poolside bikinis, buffets, roulette tables, dancing girls, even full-page photos of a lobster tail!

It seems that now, more than ever, the Lines would want to distinguish and differentiate their ships by showing them off, but the Marketing departments have other ideas!

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and...

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wile1170 wrote:
Their view is that mass market America wants a memorable "Vacation experience" to compete with land based resorts and WDW. Whether we believe it or not, most American's haven't cruised and many are afraid of being at sea...sad, right?

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That’s marketing for you.

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Ernst wrote:
I am not so sure. A lot of people think cruise ships today look like some decades ago - I would guess most of my friends are not aware of the fact that cabins can have windows not to talk about balconies - No doubt the onboard expierience is utmost important - passengers are per definition usually ON the ship - but I am sure the exterior of most ships would frighten a lot of people.

Or is it compensated by the "Wow, I can not believe that something that big is a ship" effect? I think this is how atria, three deck restaurants and "ice skating in the Carribean" work.

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I have seen buildings where the exterior would frighten you, but when inside they are like palaces. So goes the saying: ‘never judge a book by its cover’. The ‘Wow’ effect, as you say, of a large cruise ship is only partial ‘compensation’, it is the whole package: the interiors, the amenities, the service (and to a lesser extent the destinations) that make up the cruise experience, that’s what 99 per cent of cruise lines concentrate on in their marketing.

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lasuvidaboy wrote:
I also think that some 'non-ship' people have an opinion of the exterior design of modern cruise ships. A few years ago, I took my mom on a Med cruise and Celebrity Cruises' Constellation was anchored near us. My mom who has traveled on many liners and cruise ship said the Constellation was the most unattractive ship she had ever seen. I guess she had never seen Carnival's Paradise or any newer MSC ship!

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Sounds like your mum is in the expert category!!

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Here in Asia, Star Cruises does indeed use ship models, huge poster blow-ups and even 3-D ships photos (on moulded plastic) in their marketing.

Star Cruises has presented me with a model of Virgo/Leo and a 3-D photo of Aries which is currently displayed in my Cruise Ship Bar in TaiShan.

Originally, the model was on a wall shelf in the seating area of my bar, but some of my customers showed "too much interest in it and I had to move it to behind the bar.

Below is a very low quality photo (sorry!) of said model and 3-D photo.

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Originally posted by Ernst:
I noticed during the last years that nearly no models of ships are shown in travel agencies anymore, and also a lot of brouchures (not all) hardly show pictures of the ships.

So do "they" know that their ships are ugly, and "hide" them?

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In years gone past, travel agents would also proudly display models (of greater or lesser accuracy) of the wonderful aircraft on which their customers could fly around the world if they were to book with the airlines concerned.

These models are generally no more. They are expensive, and with the ever smaller margins that airlines allocate to sales costs, they just don't provide them to their distribution channels any more.

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Originally posted by Globaliser:
Can I offer a more mundane possible explanation?

In years gone past, travel agents would also proudly display models (of greater or lesser accuracy) of the wonderful aircraft on which their customers could fly around the world if they were to book with the airlines concerned.

These models are generally no more. They are expensive, and with the ever smaller margins that airlines allocate to sales costs, they just don't provide them to their distribution channels any more.

Ship models can't be any cheaper, and it wouldn't surprise me if this was the reason why cruise lines just don't do it any more.

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The underlying trend, to be read between the lines, was that showing the ship on a poster (by extrapolation also on brochures etc) was oldfashioned and companycentred. The "good" evolution was to designs and objects without showing the ship. Posters with ships were of companies with directors and people who were proud of their ships, but the general public isn't generally well aware how a ship looks, and hasnot to be aware of it. Later posters showing ships were retrorgrade. note, this was not literally said in this book, but it was a general mentality in it.

I guess, now that marketing has taken over the shipping companies from the technical people, this teaching will be generally followed : no ships, as only the company people themselves are interested in them, and not the prospective passengers.
(The same complaint was often said of the Belgian railways : too much engineers : technically everything all right, but no marketing/selling...)

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Originally posted by Deck 9 001:

Star Cruises has presented me with a model of Virgo/Leo and a 3-D photo of Aries which is currently displayed in my Cruise Ship Bar in TaiShan.

Originally, the model was on a wall shelf in the seating area of my bar, but some of my customers showed "too much interest in it and I had to move it to behind the bar.

Below is a very low quality photo (sorry!) of said model and 3-D photo.

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[ 04-26-2005: Message edited by: Keitaro ]