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Alstom signs letter of intent to sell 2 cruise ships to MSC
June 14, 2005

PARIS - Alstom SA's Marine division said it has signed a letter of intent to sell two cruise ships to MSC Cruises, part of the Swiss group Mediterranean Shipping Company.

Each ship will be 335 meters long and 38 meters wide, making them the largest cruise ships ever ordered by a European shipowner, the company said.

AFX News Limited

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The two 1,600 cabin cruise ships will weigh in at 130,000 gross tons and according to Alstom Marine, will be able to embark 4,000 passengers and nearly 1,300 crew. The first ship will be delivered by Chantier de L’Atlantique in the spring of 2008, the second in spring of 2009.

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Keitaro wrote:
This really didn't come to surprise since Alstom had said earlier that they were negotiating for two 1,600 cabins cruise ships (and remember how we thought they were talking about Celebrity's Challenger-project?). I don't think Alstom has any existing hulls that fits these dimensions (approximately 1100 ft long and 125 ft wide) and it will be interesting to see the design of this new class.

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Well, it isn't a surprise to us since we knew there wouldn't be many shipyards that would build these two Post-Panamaxes. MSC had said they were talking to 3 yards worldwide, and we knew Chantiers de l'Atlantique was one of them since they had the slots free. I can tell you that Fincantieri would have also bid for the construction as they would have found the space to build them in that time frame. The third yard we can only assume to have been MHI and not Aker Finnyards since they mentioned worldwide.

No, Alstom does not have an existing hull, so this will be a totally new class of ship, and yes it would be interesting to see what they will look like. I also wouldn’t mind knowing who the naval architects and designers are. Maybe eroller can find this out.

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Cheers

[ 06-14-2005: Message edited by: bulbousbow ]

I hope that the 2 ships boost better exterior profiles thene the new builds build by Alsthom fore MSC.

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Still blows my mind that Alsthom is able to bid on any type of business following the high level failure of their last multi-ships contract.....

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Cruisincorey13 wrote:
I thought Celebrity just sued Chantiers?

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No, as Sealeg said Celebrity is suing Alstom, etc., and not Alstom’s subsidiary Chantiers de l’Atlantique.

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sealeg claude wrote:
Chantiers L'Atlantique is where the ships were built in, and launched from....but I do not think the shipyard itself would have been part of the legal challenge...

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That’s right, Chantiers de l’Atlantique are just the builders and they would’ve had no part in building the Mermaid pods.

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Yes MSC is on the move once again. They really take the place Costa once have. And i think it's good. I have an weak spot fore this company. Never sail with theme, hope sometimes will.

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You don't think it's all a bit fast? Just 4 or 5 years ago they were a minor operator (in the cruise market, let's ignore the container market for a moment) with three or four old ships and barely 1,500 cabins total. Currently they have 4 new builds (two straight to them plus two near-sisters via Festival Cruises) each with 800/900 cabins (depends on configuration - Opera has more than Lirica, for example), plus three old ships - say, something just under 5000 cabins. By summer 2007 they'll have two more new builds with 1100 cabins each, so that'll be around 5,500 cabins in new-builds plus how ever many of the old ships they're still operating. Then by summer 2009 it'll be up to nearly 9000 cabins in new builds plus old ships - let's call it a round 10,000 cabins.

That's not far from a 10-fold increase in capacity in 7 or years or so. That would stretch the management capability of any company, surely.

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Maasdam wrote:
Yes MSC is on the move once again

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Yes, what I am interested in knowing is what Gianluigi Aponte is planning after these two giants, whether he decides to go back and build a couple more Panamaxes like MSC MUISICA / ORCHESTRA or follow Royal Caribbean and Carnival with more mega cruise ships?

Regardless, the challenge in Europe is on.

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Tom Burke wrote:
You don't think it's all a bit fast? Just 4 or 5 years ago they were a minor operator (in the cruise market, let's ignore the container market for a moment) with three or four old ships and barely 1,500 cabins total. Currently they have 4 new builds (two straight to them plus two near-sisters via Festival Cruises) each with 800/900 cabins (depends on configuration - Opera has more than Lirica, for example), plus three old ships - say, something just under 5000 cabins. By summer 2007 they'll have two more new builds with 1100 cabins each, so that'll be around 5,500 cabins in new-builds plus how ever many of the old ships they're still operating. Then by summer 2009 it'll be up to nearly 9000 cabins in new builds plus old ships - let's call it a round 10,000 cabins.

That's not far from a 10-fold increase in capacity in 7 or years or so. That would stretch the management capability of any company, surely.

What about port capability? At the moment MSC operate out of Genoa and Venice. Can these ports (esp. Genoa) take ships that size? What about passenger-handling capacity at the terminals?

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MSC have done it before with their container business and it never had problems with growing quickly, in fact they gobbled up others on their way, they seem to have the experience and the right management teams in Italy and in the USA, so I wouldn’t think they’ll have problems with management, etc.

As for the older vessels, one can only assume one or two of them will be sold in the near future, unless of course they still bring home the bacon. Building a new ship every one to two years is not that a lot, as most other cruise lines have done the same, and as long as people cruise and MSC Cruises do their marketing properly they shouldn’t have problems filling them.

Genoa will probably not be their main port for these new giants, Venice should be able to handle these ships. MSC Cruises with RCCL and Carnival run the terminal at Civitavecchia, they also are engaged with the Napoli (Naples) terminal, so it may be possible that Civitavecchia may become their homeport. Anyway, you question is very pertinent.

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Tom Burke wrote:
What would be good would be if MSC ran their 'main' cruises, the regular week-in, week-out ones, with the four bigger ships (Musica, Orchestra, and the two new ones just announced)...

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The larger ships will obviously be used for the Med and the Caribbean.

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...and found more interesting cruises for the existing 58k tonners to do - I would love to cruise around Corsica, Sardinia, and the smaller riviera ports. But I have a feeling that at 58,000 tons Opera and her sisters are too big for that.

They probably need something the size of Braemar to do that sort of cruise, but I imagine that the small number of passengers means that cost-per-passenger is higher on a small ship.

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Corsica, Sardinia and places like that are not on the major cruise lines’ itineraries unfortunately. Like you said they are probably more suited to the smaller cruise ships, such as Seabourn, etc.

I am hoping that their mid-sized ships are used in new markets: Australasia, SE Asia and India, and ones already on their schedules like Southern Africa and South America. Time will only tell.

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Originally posted by bulbousbow:

Genoa will probably not be their main port for these new giants, Venice should be able to handle these ships. MSC Cruises with RCCL and Carnival run the terminal at Civitavecchia, they also are engaged with the Napoli (Naples) terminal, so it may be possible that Civitavecchia may become their homeport. Anyway, you question is very pertinent.

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Personally I disagree: it only depends from the draught of the two Msc postpanamax newbuildings.

Genoa has currently two cruise terminals at Ponte dei Mille and Ponte Doria.

Here are the technical informations:

Length: no limits
Beam: no limits
Draught: 11,50 mt max
Volume: no limits

Compulsory pilotage: for ships exceeding 500 GT
Available tugboats: 30
Tidal variation: 30 cm

Genoa has also ambitious plans for a third cruise terminal to be created at Ponte Parodi: probably Msc, that has already shown a great interest to reinforce its presence at Genoa, will be involved in it.

After Costa has decided to leave Genoa for Savona ( a great cruise terminal there, but the port itself is small and ugly ), and after Festival Cruises and Royal Olympia are disappeared, Msc has litterally doubled its presence at Genoa., becoming the main cruise operator there.

Genoa has serious problems to attract the cruise lines, but things are improving for 2006. Also Ocean Village 1 is scheduled to call regularly here.

Italy has several different cruise ports, serving the various parts of the Country. Genoa is a very important port for the passengers coming from the North West.

Civitavecchia and Naples are too far. Besides, as Tom pointed out, during his cruise, almost any port was already used by MSC for embarkation/disembarkation.

Italianliners

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Originally posted by BigUFan:
I guess this settles the question on whether Carnival's Project Pinnacle will definitely happen. They almost have no choice but to design a 5,000-pax ship now. They're not exactly going to stand by and let MSC steal their thunder.

This also confirms just how serious MSC wants to be in the cruise business.

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Italian Cruiser wrote:
Personally I disagree: it only depends from the draught of the two Msc postpanamax newbuildings. Genoa has currently two cruise terminals at Ponte dei Mille and Ponte Doria...

Genoa has also ambitious plans for a third cruise terminal to be created at Ponte Parodi: probably Msc, that has already shown a great interest to reinforce its presence at Genoa, will be involved in it.

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The draught shouldn’t be any more than 8.5 metres, which will not preclude the two post-panamax newbuilds from using Genoa. Draught is not a problem.

Yes, I know that MSC has interest in Ponte Parodi, but will this mean the two post-panamaxes will use Genoa as a homeport?

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After Costa has decided to leave Genoa for Savona ( a great cruise terminal there, but the port itself is small and ugly ), and after Festival Cruises and Royal Olympia are disappeared, Msc has litterally doubled its presence at Genoa., becoming the main cruise operator there.

Genoa has serious problems to attract the cruise lines, but things are improving for 2006. Also Ocean Village 1 is scheduled to call regularly here.

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Yes, MSC will be the main user at Genoa, but again, as you say, Genoa has problems. The main issue will be how these two ships are marketed and to who. I suspect because of their size, and maybe layout and amenities, they will be targeted to North Americans for use in the Caribbean (European winter) and the Med (European summer). If this will be the case, Venice and Rome will be the main hubs for these tourists, meaning Venice and Civitavecchia as homeports for eastern and western Med cruises.

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Italy has several different cruise ports, serving the various parts of the Country. Genoa is a very important port for the passengers coming from the North West.

Msc will reinforce its presence at Civitavecchia, probably the best and largest cruise port in Italy, but it will not become their main homeport, due to the company strategical interestes in Northern Italy.

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Genoa will always be an embarkation/disembarkation port for the reason you stated and it can still be MSC’s main port in future, but it doesn’t have to be a homeport for some of their vessels.

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BigUFan wrote:
I guess this settles the question on whether Carnival's Project Pinnacle will definitely happen. They almost have no choice but to design a 5,000-pax ship now. They're not exactly going to stand by and let MSC steal their thunder.

This also confirms just how serious MSC wants to be in the cruise business.

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Yes, unless there is a downturn or a plunge of the US dollar Carnival will go ahead with the Pinnacle project, not because of MSC’s decision to build 130,000gt cruise ships or because of Royal Caribbean’s decision to build the Freedom-class, but because to those cruise lines it makes economic sense.

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Originally posted by Tom Burke:

What about port capability? At the moment MSC operate out of Genoa and Venice. Can these ports (esp. Genoa) take ships that size? What about passenger-handling capacity at the terminals?

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Originally posted by Ernst:
Is size really so important to sell cruises?

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You'd be surprised at how many people are obsessed with the size of a given ship. I know at least two people who have told me that they always want to sail on the biggest. I guess it's always been that way. Even back during the "Golden Age," passengers wanted to know that they would be sailing on the biggest ship possible. In those days, it was the perception of safety that drew them. But of course, we all know that what happened to the Titanic disproved that theory.

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You'd be surprised at how many people are obsessed with the size of a given ship. I know at least two people who have told me that they always want to sail on the biggest. I guess it's always been that way. Even back during the "Golden Age," passengers wanted to know that they would be sailing on the biggest ship possible. In those days, it was the perception of safety that drew them. But of course, we all know that what happened to the Titanic disproved that theory.

It's a shame. If only they could understand how impersonal the experience is when you're dealing with ships that large.

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i agree with you but there are some cases that big size is matter for good:
if we take a 15,000 or 20,000 grt vessel and compare it with 35,000 or 40,000 grt vessel we will discover that the bigger vessels comes with much more facielities to chose from , larger , wider deck space , and somtimes more sence of grandeur and steel provide a sort of intimate cruise atmosphere , comparing with much larger , some 100,000 grt or more vessels