Of more immediate feasibility, I suggest that BOTH USNS Hospital Ships, the "Mercy" (San Diego) and the "Comfort" (Baltimore) should be deployed to the area immediately. Given the sanitation problems in the area, disease is a real threat. In addition, patients were evacuated from many, non-functioning hospitals in New Orleans, and elsewhere in the stricken area.

Unlike "Mercy's" deployment to the Tsunami area, the Merchant Marine operational crews could move both ships out in a few days, while the medical staff, with equipment, could join them as rapidly as the resources could be assembled. I assume Mercy, converted from a "San Clemente" class of tankers, can traverse the Panama Canal?

[ 08-30-2005: Message edited by: Cambodge ]

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There has to be some law that the government can ask ships to assist in a recovery mission, if all the fleet is in the Middle East and Asia and the Pacific.

This will only get darker before the light begins to shine.

There is too much destruction. with no electricity, no way to get out of the city due to floods, bridges out completely, HOW in god's name will they be able to move all those residents without a major military or civilian ship being commandeered for military service, ala the Falklands, but that was a war mind you.

Just a few suggestions. There are alot of idle ships sitting in drydocks and berths all over the world, why not make use of them to do something good for someone for free!!

Jeremy

[ 08-31-2005: Message edited by: jeremya ]

[ 08-31-2005: Message edited by: jeremya ]

[ 08-31-2005: Message edited by: Ocean Liners ]

2. Re my earlier suggestion. The USNS ships only need the "word" from HQ (whomever that may be) to get underway. They should have done so yesterday, IMO. With the exception of the "Prides" all cruise ships are foreign flagged and will require significant negotiation in both fiscal and operational areas...It could take many days. Yes they could be "comandeered" but that can be messy and time-consuming.

3. To DeBM 3553: Yes I used to be "hired by the government." But they did not pay much attention to my ideas then, either..see Vietnam!

[ 08-31-2005: Message edited by: Cambodge ]

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Originally posted by Cambodge:
1. OL: You are correct, the Mississippi is higher than the Lake at New Orleans. But BOTH are higher than the city, so it does not make too much difference as the waters flow in.

[ 08-31-2005: Message edited by: Cambodge ]

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However, the city is submerged by the flood.

[ 08-31-2005: Message edited by: Ocean Liners ]

See articlefrom the Washington Post

J

[ 08-31-2005: Message edited by: Johan ]

And they are talking about having to house the refugees in the Astrodome for 12-16 WEEKS before a possible return to New Orleans.

But with that said, you are talking about dozens and dozens of square miles of residential areas and businesses that will need to be bulldozed to the ground because the homes will no longer be habitable.

[ 08-31-2005: Message edited by: dmwnc1 ]

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Originally posted by jeffrossatsea:
i suggest they suspend norwegian cruise line's america liner's and send them to the gulf coast until they are no longer needed....being u.s. registry that would be the best option as they have high passenger capacity......comandeering a liner with a flag of convenience (bahamas,bermuda,panama,etc.) would be too costly and the way the economy is going now in the states they need all the money they can get due to this tragedy.....jeff

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Carnival: Feds Ask About Using Ships
Wednesday August 31, 2:08 pm ET

Carnival Says Federal Government Asks About Using Cruise Ships in Katrina Relief

MIAMI (AP) -- Carnival Cruise Lines said Wednesday the federal government has asked whether its cruise ships could be used as emergency shelters or help Hurricane Katrina relief efforts in some other way.
The world's largest cruise line said that although "to undertake such an endeavor would involve many complicated issues, we are actively taking a look at it."

Carnival operates 21 ships, each of which holds anywhere from about 1,500 to 3,000 passengers.

"It is our intention to work with federal officials to determine the feasibility of moving a ship into the area if that is their desire," the company said.

Get ready for some Carnival ships to be transferred to US Registry but staffed with foreign crews. Watch out NCL America!

Surely there are many other Naval Vessels.. why were they not readied to go before?

quote:

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Originally posted by PamM:
[...]
Surely there are many other Naval Vessels.. why were they not readied to go before?

Pam

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This is what I do not understand at all. This disaster did not come surprisingly: A fleet of ships similar to the vessels now underway could have been waiting at a safe distance for some days already. Also, these ships could also have asissted in the evacuation. (like maybe the one or the other cruise ships)
I think now it is a bit late to deploy cruise ships - this woiuld need at least some preparation and also manouvring such a ship in this area will not be that easy and smooth now.

quote:

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Originally posted by PamM:
For Carnival to provide a ship there are thousands of things to consider, it won't come cheap at all. As you say they are not a charity, and neither will those pax who get 'dumped' consider themselves that charitable & will demand hefty compensation.

Pam

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Very true Pam, many details to work out. Of course if the situation is urgent enough, and they need to get people out .. the basic concern will be can a large ship get in and out of NOLA, and can it safely dock? Once loaded, I assume the ship will leave NOLA and dock in another state that has full provisioning capability (fuel, garbage removal, food, etc.). Of course the other minor detail is how Carnival gets compensated. Judging by the governments willingness to overspend in these circumstances (and in general), Carnival stands to gain a good deal of money and also positive publicity as the cruise line that "saved" the residents of NOLA.

I find it interesting that only Carnival was "approached". Is is possible that other cruise lines were also approached but did not make it public? Maybe the Carnival PR machine at work?? Nothing like taking the steam out of RCI's "big" announcement today. I would guess that NCL America has the closest relationship with the US government?

Just consider what you have suggested: Ships are based in ports and are staffed by people. They cannot be orbiting around in the sea waiting for a requirement for their use. The target and magnitude of the hurricaine were not really know until a day or two before it struck. No storm in history has required the land-sea-and-air resources that are now required. Once it hit, and the magnitude of the disaster was known, I believe the response was well-coordinated and effective. It is not quite the same as the B-52 crews sitting under the wing of their ship, ready to scramble when the horn goes "AH-OOO-GAH!"!

Today is Wednesday. On Sunday, the storm hit. The magnitude of the impact on people and geography was known by Mid-Monday. The requirements were assessed, and today, five Naval ships are underway from US Atlantic Ports. This is not a simple task. Crews must be assembed; fuel and supplies loaded; and, as knowledge of the mission increaes, special stores based on the operational requirements of the mission are packed aboard. All in two days! Pretty damn good, as I see it!

The Iwo Jima Amphibious Readiness Group sailed today from Norfolk, Va., loaded with disaster response equipment and is expected to reach the Louisiana coast in five days. The group consists of USS "Iwo Jima," USS "Shreveport," USS "Tortuga" and "USNS Arctic."

Four are amphibious assault ships in varying configurations and with capacious flight decks capable of handling many helicopters at one time, as would be needed in support of a military operation. That's pretty good turnaround, not quite the same as leaving the keys in the switch and engines idling, but a good response as I see it.

The USS "Grapple" was hastily added to the fleet. And in Baltimore, the USNS "Comfort" sails tonight.

Given our experiences in other, even catastropic hurricaines in the past, no one could expect more-detailed pre-planning, beyond a general state of readiness, that they have exhibited at this time.

Also, now hear this, Malcom, I understand they are carrying many LCAC (read military assault hovercraft) which could be invaluable in the stricken areas. There would be a problem in operating in narrow flooded streets and canals, but they could supply isolated refugee gathering points with food, water, and people evacuation as needed.

Marines and LCAC were used in Bangladesh after a typhoon with considerable success, as I remember. No, they did not deploy there, they were returning to the USA after participating in Gulf War I, and "happened to be in the neighborhood" when the typhoon struck.

The amphibious assault ships have such amenities as fresh-water distillation equipment, a significant medical component (remember they were designed to support battle casualties, in addition to their other dutries), and will be on scene faster than the USNS Comfort, sailing from Baltimore tonight. There is an additional amphibious support vessel, the USS "Bataan" in the area already participating by supplying heavy-lift helicopers.

I still expect the USNS "Mercy" from San Diego to eventually join up, one the magnitude of the requirements are revealed.

And there is talk of building some 40+ field hospitals!

[ 08-31-2005: Message edited by: Cambodge ]

It's also sad to see all the looting. I think some people are looting just to survive (markets are closed, no food, diapers, etc.), but others are looting things like computers and TV's. Last night there were dozens of car-jackings by desperate people trying to get out of the city. NOLA right now really is like a city under attack. Frankly I don't think authorities moved in quick enough to keep the public under control and safe. Residents are having to take matters into their own hands becoming vigilantes.

[ 08-31-2005: Message edited by: steeplechase ]

I am not so sure it would be a good idea to send Mercy too? all eggs in one basket etc..

The airport is open for relief, with a field hospital in one terminal. People can now be evacuated by aircraft, just as long as the looters are those left behind.

quote:

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Originally posted by steeplechase:
ours is high because of energy company greed gas in the ground went up 22 cents in 10 hours that is greed not a shortage.

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