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quote:Gianluigi Aponte, MSC: “Shipping in difficulty in 2006. Container ships will be sold. I believe in cruises.”December 2, 2005“At school they taught me that sometimes in life it is best to be second than being at the top”. Words of Gianluigi Aponte, shipowner at the head of MSC Mediterranean Shipping Company, a company of 280 container ships and currently seven cruise ships. The businessman from Sorrento confides in an interview published in the current issue of Italian current affairs weekly Panorama. “I foresee hard times for shipping - he declared - the positive cycle has finished. Too many ships are around, oversupply and not enough demand. And in 2006 we’ll see many boxships for sale”. Aponte explains the motives of the split with Fincantieri: “I was going to build the two biggest cruise ships in Europe, an order for Euro 1.1billion. I wanted them built in Italy but Fincantieri preferred to sign a contract with Carnival. So I said: forget the name Aponte. Now we’ll have them constructed by the French of Chantiers de l’Atlantique and from here to 2009 we’ll have one mega cruise ship built per year. We believe in the growth of this sector”.
“At school they taught me that sometimes in life it is best to be second than being at the top”. Words of Gianluigi Aponte, shipowner at the head of MSC Mediterranean Shipping Company, a company of 280 container ships and currently seven cruise ships. The businessman from Sorrento confides in an interview published in the current issue of Italian current affairs weekly Panorama. “I foresee hard times for shipping - he declared - the positive cycle has finished. Too many ships are around, oversupply and not enough demand. And in 2006 we’ll see many boxships for sale”. Aponte explains the motives of the split with Fincantieri: “I was going to build the two biggest cruise ships in Europe, an order for Euro 1.1billion. I wanted them built in Italy but Fincantieri preferred to sign a contract with Carnival. So I said: forget the name Aponte. Now we’ll have them constructed by the French of Chantiers de l’Atlantique and from here to 2009 we’ll have one mega cruise ship built per year. We believe in the growth of this sector”.
******
Cheers
quote: Aponte explains the motives of the split with Fincantieri: “I was going to build the two biggest cruise ships in Europe, an order for Euro 1.1billion. I wanted them built in Italy but Fincantieri preferred to sign a contract with Carnival. So I said: forget the name Aponte.
I am actually quite glad Chantiers is getting a good partner/alliance with MSC. They will continue growing in the future. Maybe if the yard can prove themselves, we might see other cruise lines placing orders with them in the future.
Yes indeed, it's good that Alstom's Chantiers gets a chance to remain active in this market and put the Millie class 's burden behind it. Nothing like a '' 2 now-- 2 in the future '' deal with a big player to shore up your own fortunes.They deserve the break.
CheersCG
quote:Originally posted by Waynaro:Has MSC/Aponte ordered any cargo ship from Fincantieri in the past?
Yes they have. MSC Alexa, MSC Rafaela are two, probably more.
Pam
I think in a way Alstom Marine should thank Carnival for signing with Fincantieri. That left the door open for Aponte to negotiate with them. MSC Crociere, as an Italian company, has always wanted to build cruise ships in Italy (even before Aponte’s statement). As far as I know, Fincantieri bids for all jobs, but who can turn their back to Carnival when they are so big and so powerful? I just hope the split between Aponte and Fincantieri was amicable (more for the sake of Fincantieri than MSC).
quote:Originally posted by bulbousbow: As far as I know, Fincantieri bids for all jobs, but who can turn their back to Carnival when they are so big and so powerful? I just hope the split between Aponte and Fincantieri was amicable (more for the sake of Fincantieri than MSC).******Cheers
This is very true. For Fincantieri's sake, lets hope nothing comes between their relationship with Carnival Corp. It seems there are several cruise lines that just don't, or won't order from Fincantieri for whatever reason. NCL, Celebrity, Royal Caribbean .... and now MSC. Should Fincantieri fall on hard times with Carnival, they may not find too many other lines knocking on the door to place orders. A big "if" I know, but none the less a possibility.
Ernie - who wishes MSC all the luck in the world, and thinks Alsom built the greatest ship of our time, QM2. Fincantieri seems very good at building "clones". When was the last completely new design to come off the blocks at Fincantieri? The DISNEY MAGIC would be my guess.
quote:Originally posted by bulbousbow: I just hope the split between Aponte and Fincantieri was amicable (more for the sake of Fincantieri than MSC).
The business world is very 'global' these days. After all France built the QM2!
I don't think these guys bear grudges when money is involved. If in a few years time Fincantieri submit a quote to build MSC ships cheaper than the other yards, MSC will be shaking hands again!
[ 12-04-2005: Message edited by: Malcolm @ cruisepage ]
quote:Originally posted by eroller:[...] When was the last completely new design to come off the blocks at Fincantieri? The DISNEY MAGIC would be my guess.
[...] When was the last completely new design to come off the blocks at Fincantieri? The DISNEY MAGIC would be my guess.
The design is not the business of the yard - they build what the customer orders. Especially the parts of the ship we as passengers 'see' is not typical for a certain yard.
quote:Originally posted by Ernst:The design is not the business of the yard - they build what the customer orders.
The design is not the business of the yard - they build what the customer orders.
I never said the design was the responsibility of the yard. This doesn't change the fact that Fincantieri has built VERY few new designs and many, many clones of existing hulls.
Ernie
quote:Originally posted by eroller:I never said the design was the responsibility of the yard. This doesn't change the fact that Fincantieri has built VERY few new designs and many, many clones of existing hulls.Ernie
But this has more to do with their customer(s). Also, actually all the other yards built series too - including Alstom.
quote:Originally posted by Malcolm @ cruisepage: I don't think these guys bear grudges when money is involved.
I don't think these guys bear grudges when money is involved.
Oh I think they do, especially if a positive relationship is built with another yard. MSC especially, being a private company, has more leeway than most to make independent decisions. I'm not saying that if Fincantieri offered rock bottom prices that MSC or even Royal Caribbean (very unlikely) wouldn't order with them, but it might be a last choice.
The fact that Royal Caribbean seems unwilling to order any vessel through Fincantieri tells me these decisions are not just financially based. Large companies have large egos, and they don't forget if they have been screwed in the past by someone.
Now if Fincantieri eventually gets an entirely new management team, then all bets are off. In that case, companies like MSC and Royal Caribbean may put aside their differences since essentially they would be dealing with a new company (in their eyes).
quote:Originally posted by Ernst:But this has more to do with their customer(s). Also, actually all the other yards built series too - including Alstom.
Again, I NEVER STATED IT DIDN'T. The fact remains that Fincantieri has built nothing but "clones" (mainly for Carnival Corp) over the past five years or so.
quote:Originally posted by eroller:The fact that Royal Caribbean seems unwilling to order any vessel through Fincantieri tells me these decisions are not just financially based.
Why is this, brcause they build for Carnival?
quote:Malcolm wrote:I don't think these guys bear grudges when money is involved. If in a few years time Fincantieri submit a quote to build MSC ships cheaper than the other yards, MSC will be shaking hands again!
Very true. I doubt Aponte would turn his back on a good deal whether it was Fincantieri offering or someone else, however because they are both Italian there may be other issues here.
quote:Originally posted by eroller:Again, I NEVER STATED IT DIDN'T. The fact remains that Fincantieri has built nothing but "clones" (mainly for Carnival Corp) over the past five years or so.Ernie
This is sadly true - but not necessarily to their (economical) disadvantage. But still, other yards are finally in similar situations - for quite some time Meyer is now also repeating the same design for the same customer and the variety of ships coming from Finland is also rather limited.Don`t take it too seriouse.
BTW: Isn`t Carnival already owning parts of Fincantieri?
quote:Originally posted by Malcolm @ cruisepage:Why is this, brcause they build for Carnival?
No one really knows. The fact is that Fincantieri offers competitive pricing on newbuilds. Even so, Royal Caribbean doesn't order through them. I'm not even sure if they accept bids from Fincantieri? At any rate, I'm quite certain it goes beyond anything financial. My point is that even large companies with the goal of making profits don't always go with the cheapest option.
quote:Originally posted by Ernst:This is sadly true - but not necessarily to their (economical) disadvantage.
This is sadly true - but not necessarily to their (economical) disadvantage.
It's actually to their advantage (the shipyard and the cruise company). Tried and true designs make for an easy construction schedule and flawless delivery dates. None the less, it doesn't seem as if Fincantieri has been challenged lately by anything new. Carnival's Project Pinnacle may change that.
quote:Ernst wrote:The design is not the business of the yard - they build what the customer orders. Especially the parts of the ship we as passengers 'see' is not typical for a certain yard.
Yes and no. Fincantieri have their own design team, just like the cruise lines do. Of course, you’ve also got independent designers and naval architects. They all know each other and sometimes work together. That's the nature of the (cruise ship) industry.
quote:Ernst wrote:Isn`t Carnival already owning parts of Fincantieri?
Not yet. Fincantieri is looking at going public in 2006. Only then can Arison buy shares, if he is permitted to. Maybe Aponte may buy shares as well. Who knows?
[ 12-04-2005: Message edited by: bulbousbow ]
quote:Originally posted by bulbousbow:Yes and no. Fincantieri have their own design team, just like the cruise lines do. Of course, you’ve also got independent designers and naval architects. They all know each other and sometimes work together. That's the nature of the (cruise ship) industry.******Cheers
Of course each yard 'prefers' or cooperate closer with certain companies - so there is typical mix for each yard - but on the other hand e.g. Piikkio has also delievered cabins for Meyer built ships.
I agree that somehow the cruise industry still is a 'small' industry. The fact that there is only a handful of suppliers, designers etc. is probalby the reason why nearly all ships are so similar today.
[ 12-04-2005: Message edited by: Ernst ]
quote:eroller wrote:...I'm not even sure if they accept bids from Fincantieri?...
They do. Like I have said in the past, Fincantieri will bid for any cruise ship job. I know this for a fact. In the end it is up to RCCL to decide whether they want to or not, and up to now it has been a flat no. Maybe something will change when Fincantieri buys stakes in the Grand Bahama Shipyard and Lloyd Werft, who knows?
quote:Originally posted by eroller:For Fincantieri's sake, lets hope nothing comes between their relationship with Carnival Corp. It seems there are several cruise lines that just don't, or won't order from Fincantieri for whatever reason. NCL, Celebrity, Royal Caribbean .... and now MSC. Should Fincantieri fall on hard times with Carnival, they may not find too many other lines knocking on the door to place orders
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