Log In | Customer Support
Home Book Travel Destinations Hotels Cruises Air Travel Community Search:

Search

Search CruisePage

Book a Cruise
- CruiseServer
- Search Caribbean
- Search Alaska
- Search Europe
- 888.700.TRIP

Book Online
Cruise
Air
Hotel
Car
Cruising Area:

Departure Date:
Cruise Length:

Price Range:

Cruise Line:

Buy Stuff

Reviews
- Ship Reviews
- Dream Cruise
- Ship of the Month
- Reader Reviews
- Submit a Review
- Millennium Cruise

Community
- Photo Gallery
- Join Cruise Club
- Cruise News
- Cruise News Archive
- Cruise Views
- Cruise Jobs
- Special Needs
- Maritime Q & A
- Sea Stories

Industry
- New Ship Guide
- Former Ships
- Port Information
- Inspection Scores
- Shipyards
- Ship Cams
- Ship Tracking
- Freighter Travel
- Man Overboard List
- Potpourri

Shopping
- Shirts & Hats
- Books
- Videos

Contact Us
- Reservations
- Mail
- Feedback
- Suggest-a-Site
- About Us

Reader Sites
- PamM's Site
- Ernst's Site
- Patsy's Site
- Ben's Site
- Carlos' Site
- Chris' Site
- SRead's Site


Cruise Travel - Cruise Talk
Cruise Talk Cruise News

Welcome to Cruise Talk the Internet's most popular discussion forum dedicated to cruising. Stop by Cruise Talk anytime to post a message or find out what your fellow passengers and industry insiders are saying about a particular ship, cruise line or destination.

>>> Reader Reviews
>>> CruisePage.com Photo Gallery
>>> Join Our Cruise Club.

Latest News...Disney Cruise Line announced today that the honorary role of "godparent" for its new ship, the Disney Treasure, will be held by The Walt Disney Company cast, crew, Imagineers and employees around the world. The profound declaration is a heartfelt tribute to the more than 200,000 dreamers and doers who make every Disney entertainment, vacation and at-home experience possible. Disney Cruise Line is proud to celebrate...

Latest News...Carnival Cruise Line is adding to its line-up of 2026/27 deployment with sailings from New York City on Carnival Venezia, and more Long Beach sailings on Carnival Firenze and Carnival Radiance. “Our two Carnival Fun Italian Style ships offer great options from the east and west coasts, conveniently connecting New York and Long Beach to popular destinations, while delivering unique experiences on board...

Latest News...Vacationers are in for more ways to make memories across Royal Caribbean’s latest combination of tropical and Northeast 2026-27 getaways. The lineup of 12 Royal Caribbean ships rounds out a variety of adventures across Florida, Texas, Puerto Rico and the Northeast for every type of family and vacationer to get away any time of year. Crown & Anchor Society loyalty members...

More Cruise News...


Post New Topic  Post A Reply
my profile | register | search | faq | forum home
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» Cruise Talk   » Cruise Lines   » Human Error Admitted on CROWN PRINCESS (Page 1)

UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!  
This topic is comprised of pages:  1  2  3 
 
Author Topic: Human Error Admitted on CROWN PRINCESS
Linerrich
First Class Passenger
Member # 4864

posted 07-25-2006 09:59 AM      Profile for Linerrich   Email Linerrich   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Princess Cruises has admitted that it was human error which caused the CROWN PRINCESS to list suddenly.


A Letter to Our Passengers Regarding Crown Princess

Dear Passenger,

We at Princess Cruises would like to take the opportunity to comment about the incident of last week, when Crown Princess experienced a strong list following her departure from Port Canaveral, Florida. We express our sincerest apologies for this regrettable event, and fully understand that this was a distressing experience for all who were on board.

We especially extend our apologies to those passengers and crew who were injured. We are grateful that the injuries were not life-threatening, and also that those transferred to hospitals for evaluation and treatment have now been released with the exception of one passenger, for whom we wish a speedy and full recovery. Following the incident, we immediately cooperated with representatives from the U.S. Coast Guard, the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB), and the Bermuda flag authorities. Following an extensive assessment, Crown Princess departed New York last Saturday July 22 on a seven-day voyage, having received clearance to sail by the U.S. Coast Guard and the Bermuda flag authorities.

We can appreciate there may be concern as to the cause of this incident, and questions about whether it could happen again. As you may be aware, there is an investigation into the incident being carried out by the U.S. authorities which has not yet been fully completed. It would therefore be inappropriate for us to comment in any detail before that investigation is complete and the results published. However, we can confirm that the incident was due to human error and the appropriate personnel changes have been made. We want to unequivocally emphasize that we would never operate an unsafe ship, nor would the U.S. Coast Guard allow a ship to sail that had any safety issues.

We want to assure passengers who may be booked on an upcoming sailing, or those who may be thinking about traveling with Princess, that the highest priority for our company is the safety and well-being of our passengers and crew.

Sincerely,

Alan Buckelew
President
Princess Cruises

Here is a link to their letter to passengers:

Letter

Rich

[ 07-25-2006: Message edited by: joe at travelpage ]


Posts: 4210 | From: Miami, FL | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
greybeard
First Class Passenger
Member # 5284

posted 07-25-2006 10:29 AM      Profile for greybeard     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
to quote from the Princess statement:

". . . and the appropriate personnel changes have been made."

What a wonderful euphemism for "the idiot who was responsible has been sacked."

It's good to know that the autopilot was not to blame. Though I have been on bridges equipped with fully computerised controls, and been told by the captain that the system has been partly disabled, because, left to itself, the autopilot could be liable to make unsafe adjustments to course/steering, etc.


Posts: 587 | From: London | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
Cambodge
First Class Passenger
Member # 906

posted 07-25-2006 03:11 PM      Profile for Cambodge   Email Cambodge   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I wonder if the designers of autopilots and similar equipment will now incorporate a "fail safe" component in their designs, so that an override of the system would not cause such an effect.

It could be like such obvious fail-safe components on aircraft that prevent inadvertent activation of reverse thrust while airborne, or retracting of landing gear while on the ground.

Seems to me it would not be too difficult to set up.


Posts: 2149 | From: St. Michaels MD USA , the town that fooled the British! | Registered: Nov 1999  |  IP: Logged
NWLB
First Class Passenger
Member # 1987

posted 07-25-2006 08:37 PM      Profile for NWLB   Author's Homepage   Email NWLB   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I truly could not, and would not want to know what it is like to be in the position of the officer that is taking the heat on this. But I'll await the final coast guard report.

NWLB
*****************
www.RCIfan.com


Posts: 329 | From: Bowling Green, Ohio | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
joe at travelpage
Administrator
Member # 622

posted 07-25-2006 09:04 PM      Profile for joe at travelpage   Author's Homepage   Email joe at travelpage   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Linerrich:
.... However, we can confirm that the incident was due to human error and the appropriate personnel changes have been made.

I have it on good authority from a highly placed source within Princess that the incident was the result of the actions of a junior staff person on duty at the time.

It appears that - without warning - he took it upon himself to open the starboard lido buffet while the port buffet remained closed. Apparently this maneuver was never tested during sea trials.

Joe at TravelPage.com


Posts: 29976 | From: Great Falls, Virginia | Registered: A Long Time Ago!  |  IP: Logged
Ernst
First Class Passenger
Member # 5369

posted 07-25-2006 09:18 PM      Profile for Ernst   Author's Homepage   Email Ernst   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Joe, this happens more often than one thinks. For such situations the "Look a whale! Right on portside!" manouver has to be promplty executed. Only the NTSB report will tell us why it failed this time.
Posts: 9746 | From: Eindhoven | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
Jonathan
First Class Passenger
Member # 5201

posted 07-27-2006 11:20 PM      Profile for Jonathan   Author's Homepage   Email Jonathan   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Cambodge:
I wonder if the designers of autopilots and similar equipment will now incorporate a "fail safe" component in their designs, so that an override of the system would not cause such an effect.

It could be like such obvious fail-safe components on aircraft that prevent inadvertent activation of reverse thrust while airborne, or retracting of landing gear while on the ground.

Seems to me it would not be too difficult to set up.



My uncle has an auto pilot system on his 100 foot shrimping boat, and i whent out with him and it failed causing us to list to one side a great amout becuase it turned the rudder sharp right. Also to your comment about the airplanes all jet aircraft have a reverser unlock that is only activated when the landing gear are down and touching the ground then the pilots are able to bring the throtles back and into reverse thrust. As to the landing gear the lever is only able to be activated when the wheels are off the ground.

Jonathan


Posts: 559 | From: Ponte Vedra Beach, Florida | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged
TampaMike
First Class Passenger
Member # 4445

posted 07-28-2006 11:00 AM      Profile for TampaMike   Email TampaMike   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I am uncertain whether the incident was truly human error or mechanical or miscommunication between both (user error).

However, in terms of damage control (for the company reputation) it is better to throw a person under the bus and claim human error than to have speculation the ship is unsafe or flawed. Removing the employee may remove the concerns people may have the ship is flawed.

Considering the ship issues Princess has had, they must protect the reputation of their fleet otherwise the niave consumer will shop elsewhere. The average person just hears 'another issue with a Princess ship'.

Again, I really do not know if it was truly or solely human error, but this situation seems to be the the less impacting Princess' reputation in the long run.


Posts: 246 | From: Tampa | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
Ernst
First Class Passenger
Member # 5369

posted 07-28-2006 11:37 AM      Profile for Ernst   Author's Homepage   Email Ernst   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Giving the information which has been released up to now - what makes you believe that there is another reason for this incident than human error?
Posts: 9746 | From: Eindhoven | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
timb
First Class Passenger
Member # 5901

posted 07-28-2006 11:37 AM      Profile for timb     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
TampaMike,

You forget that the determination of human or mechanical problem has nothing to do with Princess but the US Coast Gaurd and NTSB. They certainly aren't going to falsify a report to help Princess in any way. I think you can rest assured that it is human error as reported.

Tim


Posts: 437 | From: S FL | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged
joe at travelpage
Administrator
Member # 622

posted 07-28-2006 12:22 PM      Profile for joe at travelpage   Author's Homepage   Email joe at travelpage   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Note that the only attribution to "human error" is from Princess - not the US Coast Guard or the NTSB. I don't think either of those groups has released any information as to the cause.

I also find the wording in the letter from Princess interesting in that in one sentence they say it would be "...be inappropriate for us to comment in any detail before that investigation is complete..." and then in the next sentence they do exactly that by claiming it was "human error".

It is obviously written to make people feel more comfortable (preserver revenue) about future sailings but I think it is a disservice to dismiss the incident before the investigation is actually completed.

Can the simple sacking of a junior crew member really prevent this from happening again? Have any processes or systems been modified to prevent another crew member from accidentily doing the same thing?

Joe at TravelPage.com


Posts: 29976 | From: Great Falls, Virginia | Registered: A Long Time Ago!  |  IP: Logged
TampaMike
First Class Passenger
Member # 4445

posted 07-28-2006 12:46 PM      Profile for TampaMike   Email TampaMike   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by joe at travelpage:
Note that the only attribution to "human error" is from Princess - not the US Coast Guard or the NTSB.

I also find the wording in the letter from Princess interesting in that in one sentence they say it would be "...be inappropriate for us to comment in any detail before that investigation is complete..." and then in the next sentence they do exactly that by claiming it was "human error".


Exactly my point. I am not debating whether or not this truly is human error at this point.

But it does appear to me that Princess is facilitating damage control.

Just my observation.


Posts: 246 | From: Tampa | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
Malcolm @ cruisepage
Cruise Director
Member # 301

posted 07-29-2006 07:16 AM      Profile for Malcolm @ cruisepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by joe at travelpage:
..the incident was the result of the actions of a junior staff person on duty at the time.

It appears that - without warning - he took it upon himself to open the starboard lido buffet while the port buffet remained closed.


Well I thought it was funny!


Posts: 19210 | From: Essex (Just Outside London) | Registered: A Long Time Ago!  |  IP: Logged
Frosty 4
First Class Passenger
Member # 5826

posted 07-29-2006 08:18 PM      Profile for Frosty 4   Email Frosty 4   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Human error.!!! HAL would never stand for that!!

2001 A Space Odyessy, just in case you don't follow my infurance on this.
Frosty 4


Posts: 2531 | From: Illinois | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
Ernst
First Class Passenger
Member # 5369

posted 07-29-2006 08:22 PM      Profile for Ernst   Author's Homepage   Email Ernst   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
But HAL only wanted to complete his mission - not his fault that those people from lllinois misprogrammed him.
Posts: 9746 | From: Eindhoven | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
Frosty 4
First Class Passenger
Member # 5826

posted 07-29-2006 08:35 PM      Profile for Frosty 4   Email Frosty 4   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Yep ,we made him to get paranoid as he thought he was incapable of error vs humans who have flaws.
Anyhow the human element seems to be in play here. A command was sent to the computer which followed a garbage in, garbage out order. Ouch!!
We will see what comes of this.
F4

Posts: 2531 | From: Illinois | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
Frosty 4
First Class Passenger
Member # 5826

posted 07-29-2006 08:41 PM      Profile for Frosty 4   Email Frosty 4   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
http://www.palantir.net/2001/tma1/wav/error.wav

Just for fun listen to words of wisdom from HAL himself.
F4


Posts: 2531 | From: Illinois | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
Ernst
First Class Passenger
Member # 5369

posted 07-29-2006 09:24 PM      Profile for Ernst   Author's Homepage   Email Ernst   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The link is not working - I guess this is what you meant.

...and this is all that has to be said...

[ 07-29-2006: Message edited by: Ernst ]


Posts: 9746 | From: Eindhoven | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
Cambodge
First Class Passenger
Member # 906

posted 07-29-2006 11:37 PM      Profile for Cambodge   Email Cambodge   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
"...be inappropriate for us to comment in any detail before that investigation is complete..."

Exactly my point per earlier posting. Certainly there will be an investigation, and the comments are appropriate. Even if it were human error, the system should not have allowed such a result, as I pointed out re: thrust reversers in flight and similar. I suspect an investigation will reveal that when human intervention in the automatic system occurs, there should be (and probably is not) a fail-safe element so this type of incident could not take place. I can see a recommendation coming out of this matter to see that such technolgical fixes are established. It should not be too difficult to implement.

What was the result of the Puget Sound incident a few years back, as I recall? Sounds similar.


Posts: 2149 | From: St. Michaels MD USA , the town that fooled the British! | Registered: Nov 1999  |  IP: Logged
sslewis
First Class Passenger
Member # 3649

posted 08-04-2006 01:16 PM      Profile for sslewis   Author's Homepage   Email sslewis   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
johnathan,
a bit OT, but I read a condensed NTSB report on the cause of the Austrian 767 crash in Thailand a few years ago.
One of the engines thrust reverser had deployed inflight(?), causing the plane to break apart on take off!

Posts: 2513 | From: Shipspotting Solent shores when weather allows.... | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Ernst
First Class Passenger
Member # 5369

posted 08-04-2006 01:36 PM      Profile for Ernst   Author's Homepage   Email Ernst   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by sslewis:
johnathan,
a bit OT, but I read a condensed NTSB report on the cause of the Austrian 767 crash in Thailand a few years ago.
One of the engines thrust reverser had deployed inflight(?), causing the plane to break apart on take off!

This was a Lauda Air Boeing 767 (Austrian) - but this is not at all comparable to having the rudder of a ship in an extreme position. (which is causing a mess but not a disaster like sinking the ship) A thrust reverser must not deploy during the flight (ther is (or has been) an FAA test where this is done - but under different circumstances) whereas there are 'no' (major) parts of a ship which must not be operated at certain times.


Posts: 9746 | From: Eindhoven | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
Cambodge
First Class Passenger
Member # 906

posted 08-04-2006 02:51 PM      Profile for Cambodge   Email Cambodge   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Interestingly enough, NASA modified an aircraft to establish an analogue for training purposes of the Space Shuttle on landing. It included a capability to activate the thrusters in flight to cause the training aircraft to sink like a rock, just as the shuttle does on landing.
Posts: 2149 | From: St. Michaels MD USA , the town that fooled the British! | Registered: Nov 1999  |  IP: Logged
Ernst
First Class Passenger
Member # 5369

posted 08-04-2006 03:26 PM      Profile for Ernst   Author's Homepage   Email Ernst   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
It's a long time since I dealt with planes - but I know that there has been a test required for new types of aeroplanes where it had to be prooven that the plane can be kept under control by the pilot using one hand only - to simulate a severe condition only one revers thruster has been deployed. (It has been done for the DC-9 and the following MD 80 series)
Posts: 9746 | From: Eindhoven | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
Jonathan
First Class Passenger
Member # 5201

posted 08-04-2006 08:21 PM      Profile for Jonathan   Author's Homepage   Email Jonathan   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by sslewis:
johnathan,
a bit OT, but I read a condensed NTSB report on the cause of the Austrian 767 crash in Thailand a few years ago.
One of the engines thrust reverser had deployed inflight(?), causing the plane to break apart on take off!

Malfunctions are a given to happen any time any place, you cant rely on computer systems or much technology today to not give you a hard time. But on normal safe everyday flights reverse thrusters are not able to be activated in the air. I know this is standard on all Boeing 737 aircraft and up the line. Im not familiar with MD aircraft. But even in aircraft human error can cause a crash or even crash and death. I would much rather be in an accident on a cruise ship.

Jonathan


Posts: 559 | From: Ponte Vedra Beach, Florida | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged
Ernst
First Class Passenger
Member # 5369

posted 08-04-2006 10:23 PM      Profile for Ernst   Author's Homepage   Email Ernst   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
In the case of the Boeing 767 Lauda air crash it was not human error (meaning the pilot) - the reverse thruster deployed during flight - in a critical phase - and made the plane uncontrolable. The reverse thruster mechanism on all Boeing 767 (and aircrafts with similar reverse thrusters) has been changed since then.
Posts: 9746 | From: Eindhoven | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged

All times are ET (US)
This topic is comprised of pages:  1  2  3 
 

Post New Topic  Post A Reply Close Topic    Move Topic    Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
Hop To:

Contact Us | CruisePage

Infopop Corporation
Ultimate Bulletin BoardTM 6.1.0.3

VACATION & CRUISE SPECIALS
Check out these great deals from CruisePage.com

Royal Caribbean - Bahamas Getaway from $129 per person
Description: Experience the beautiful ports of Nassau and Royal Caribbean's private island - CocoCay on a 3-night Weekend Getaway to the Bahamas. Absorb everything island life has to offer as you snorkel with the stingrays, parasail above the serene blue waters and walk the endless white sand beaches. From Miami.
Carnival - 4-Day Bahamas from $229 per person
Description: Enjoy a wonderful 3 Day cruise to the fun-loving playground of Nassau, Bahamas. Discover Nassau, the capital city as well as the cultural, commercial and financial heart of the Bahamas. Meet the Atlantic Southern Stingrays, the guardians of Blackbeard's treasure.
NCL - Bermuda - 7 Day from $499 per person
Description: What a charming little chain of islands. Walk on pink sand beaches. Swim and snorkel in turquoise seas. Take in the historical sights. They're stoically British and very quaint. Or explore the coral reefs. You can get to them by boat or propelled by fins. You pick. Freestyle Cruising doesn't tell you where to go or what to do. Sure, you can plan ahead, or decide once onboard. After all, it's your vacation. There are no deadlines or must do's.
Holland America - Eastern Caribbean from From $599 per person
Description: White sand, black sand, talcum soft or shell strewn, the beaches of the Eastern Caribbean invite you to swim, snorkel or simply relax. For shoppers, there's duty-free St. Thomas, the Straw Market in Nassau, French perfume and Dutch chocolates on St. Maarten. For history buffs, the fascinating fusion of Caribbean, Latin and European cultures. For everyone, a day spent on HAL's award winning private island Half Moon Cay.
Celebrity - 7-Night Western Mediterranean from $549 per person
Description: For centuries people have traveled to Europe to see magnificent ruins, art treasures and natural wonders. And the best way to do so is by cruise ship. Think of it - you pack and unpack only once. No wasted time searching for hotels and negotiating train stations. Instead, you arrive at romantic ports of call relaxed, refreshed and ready to take on the world.
Holland America - Alaska from From $499 per person
Description: Sail between Vancouver and Seward, departing Sundays on the ms Statendam or ms Volendam and enjoy towering mountains, actively calving glaciers and pristine wildlife habitat. Glacier Bay and College Fjord offer two completely different glacier-viewing experiences.

| Home | About Us | Suggest-a-Site | Feedback | Contact Us | Privacy |
This page, and all contents, are © 1995-2021 by Interactive Travel Guides, Inc. and/or its suppliers. All rights reserved.
TravelPage.com is a trademark of Interactive Travel Guides, Inc.
Powered by TravelServer Software