Increases include:

Norwegian Jade
Balmoral
Increased capacity on board Braemer
Independence of the Seas
Ventura
Queen Victoria

I believe other lines are also increasing the amount of marketing etc in the UK market in order to fill their ships at the same time. Well cruise execs, if you can't fill them please send one down here - much appreciated. Of course should capacity prove to be too much Oceana could be transfered back to Princess, Black Prince could go early and Navigator replace Independence - however I suspect that RCI will be one of the gainers (biggest ship in the owrld etc), it is more likely that P&O might prove to be one of the loosers not with Ventura but perhaps some of the other ships being more difficult to fill in comparison ? Alternatively fares may have to drop ?

Here in the UK (and in European) market many businesses seem to be masters at keeping prices high, i.e. price fixing. Surely the main attraction to the many big American ships which will be operating from the UK next summer is that they can charge higher fares in Europe than they can in the Caribb.

Currently lines such as RCI and Carnival are bringing their mass-market products over to the UK but are currently charging premium fares.

At present, there is little web site/brochure price difference between Cunard (non-Grill) P&O, NCL, Olsen, Princess, RCI, and Carnival. Most are charging £100 or more per day with many offering offering only longer cruises (10-14 days). That's a minimum of £2800 ($5,680) for a couple sharing an INSIDE Cabin on an RCI ship for example, from a UK port (return)!

I’m sure some discount will be available nearer the departure dates, but I bet fares will not be anywhere near as low as those that can be found in the Caribbean. A price war is the last thing they want - it's better for all of the lines if they keep their prices at similar levels to each other. I don’t suppose the Carnival bands will undercut each other either, particularly as some of the ships are similar.

The events will certainly prove interesting, but I doubt if the UK will see any very cheap cruises in the near future.

Yes, I know that I’m a pessimist, so feel free to tell me that I'm wrong.

[ 08-01-2007: Message edited by: Malcolm @ cruisepage ]

I agree that our fares are high viz a viz the US BUT
where else can you enjoy the food, entertainment ands service levels you get at sea for £100 a day?

We should never forget that £100 (+) per night in a mass-market ‘windowless cell’ is still a very expensive holiday for some people and will not be perceived as the 'height of luxury' or ‘good value’ by all.

I was at least giving my opinion (be it right or wrong) on Mike SA's interesting question : if the UK market will be able to absorb that sort of capacity increase without discounting.

[ 08-03-2007: Message edited by: Malcolm @ cruisepage ]

quote:

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Originally posted by Malcolm @ cruisepage:

Such responses make CT an unpleasant place to be at times.

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Malcolm, may I please be permitted to disagree with you?

What makes CT an unpleasant place to be sometimes is the constant whining, whether it be about prices, or the so-called "clones," or the alleged avarice of the big businesses who invest in new ships, or the belief that cruise ships just ain't what they used to be. In short, the general attitude of moaning about everything and everybody. Which is why I now find myself an infrequent contributor to these discussions - although I can't quite bring myself to stop reading them, infuriating as it may be sometimes.

I don't happen to think Mec1's comment was insulting, and you did in fact, invite respondents to tell you that you were wrong.

I agree with Mec1's comment that £100 a day (or more) is excellent value for money when you compare the facilities provided on a cruise ship with what may be available elsewhere. Such as £300 a night for a hotel bedroom with breakfast extra, let alone lunch, dinner and entertainment. And with levels of service which in many cases come nowhere near those provided at sea.

Having said that, it's not too difficult to find excellent bargains on reasonable ships charging less, sometimes much less, than £100 a day. It is apparent from your posts that you do not take cruise vacations frequently. I sometimes wonder whether you have ever taken a close look at some of the deals offered in newspaper ads by the specialist cruise agents, or whether you base your calculations on the top-line prices quoted in cruise company brochures. Prices which no-one ever pays.

So fares in the US are lower than in the UK? So what? Clothes are cheaper in the States. Cameras are cheaper. Food is cheaper. iPods are cheaper. Travel is cheaper. Get used to it. Take advantage of the current strength of sterling by cruising on a ship whose on-board prices are in dollars. You can even do it sailing from Dover or Southampton.

I would love to see CT-ers taking a more positive approach to the subject we all love, and not using CT as a forum for complaints, complaints, complaints.

But I don't hold out much hope.

[ 08-01-2007: Message edited by: greybeard ]

I am confident that the 40 per cent increase in UK cruise capacity remarked on will inevitably lead to bargain offers in 2008.

The cruise market has been growing steadily for many years, and at a rate far faster than the rest of the travel industry.

But not by a scale of 40 per cent in one year.

Royal Caribbean's Independence of the Seas is one big ship to fill. Norwegian Jade will add another dimension to the UK market.

Ventura will increase P & O's overall capacity by something like 30 per cent. It is safe to say that P & O will be cannibalising their own market to some extent. Passengers will be booking Ventura cruises at the expense of other ships in the fleet. So we can expect some pretty attractive deals on Aurora, Oriana and Arcadia, for example.

Queen Victoria will provide Cunard with a huge number of extra cabins to fill, and QE2 will continue to sell well as passengers avail themselves of a last opportunity to sail on her before she retires in November.

The stretched Balmoral and the stretched Braemar will boost Fred Olsen's capacity by an unprecedented amount. And they will still need to fill Black Watch, Boudicca and even, for another year or so, Black Prince.

Prices will come down across the board in order to achieve near-maximum capacity.

As for Mike's question, I think they will fill them because there are a lot of people who try something they haven't before. There were a lot of FO and P&O loyalists on Connie and Navigator. Arcadia and Artemis are the most expensive and least popular of the P&O fleet (and the highest single rate) so they'll struggle. Ventura, QV, IotS are all novelties. However once the initial year is over, I think IotS will be more popular than the other two due to price. People shop around and as it is you can do longer on P&O and others for the same price as Cunard. Carnival will have to drop prices to compete. They have no choice.

[ 08-01-2007: Message edited by: Patsy ]

quote:

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Originally posted by greybeard:

Malcolm, may I please be permitted to disagree with you?

So fares in the US are lower than in the UK? So what? Clothes are cheaper in the States. Cameras are cheaper. Food is cheaper. iPods are cheaper. Travel is cheaper. Get used to it. Take advantage of the current strength of sterling by cruising on a ship whose on-board prices are in dollars. You can even do it sailing from Dover or Southampton.

But I don't hold out much hope.

[ 08-01-2007: Message edited by: greybeard ]

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In the USA consumer goods may be cheaper, but we do not have the social safety net that even the most conservative European countries have.

Health Insurance, secondary education, and essential government services are quite pricey so it even's out.

In the 1980's the prices on a Carnival ship in real dollars accounting for inflation are that of a premium ship today, and those are on converted tourist liners.

IMO Britain'S cruising is where the USA was 10-15 years ago.
If fares are lowered on board spending is raised.

[ 08-01-2007: Message edited by: desirod7 ]

I used to be all for cheaper cruises but in recent years this has changed.

1. norovirus outbreaks. This is a hard topic to judge or stereotype, but when you have cheaper cruises I think it may attract the more "lazy" people with poorer hygene standards, such as people who do not shower or clean themselves increasing the risk of this virus.

2. troublemakers. Anyone familiar with what is going on in Australia there was recently a coronial inquest into the death of a woman on Pacific Sky in 2002. Eight men (all with criminal records, history of drug use and dealing, all from lower classes of society) decided to buy a cheap cruise and have two cabins between the eight of them. The cabin was the lowest grade and inside. They got it cheap. On the first night of their cruise they were taking and offering drugs, drugged and raped a 40 year old mother of two and left her to die in their cabin. After she had died instead of calling medical assistance, they showered her corps to remove evidence of rape, dressed her and planned to leave her elsewhere or throw her overboard until they realised they could not get her out of their cabin without being seen.

quote:

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Originally posted by Sutho:
Personally I dont care about the prices. I think cruise lines should charge higher to keep the undesirable people away................
1. norovirus outbreaks. This is a hard topic to judge or stereotype, but when you have cheaper cruises I think it may attract the more "lazy" people with poorer hygene standards, such as people who do not shower or clean themselves increasing the risk of this virus.

2. troublemakers. Anyone familiar with what is going on in Australia there was recently a coronial inquest into the death of a woman on Pacific Sky in 2002. Eight men (all with criminal records, history of drug use and dealing, all from lower classes of society) decided to buy a cheap cruise and have two cabins between the eight of them. The cabin was the lowest grade and inside. They got it cheap. On the first night of their cruise they were taking and offering drugs, drugged and raped a 40 year old mother of two and left her to die in their cabin. After she had died instead of calling medical assistance, they showered her corps to remove evidence of rape, dressed her and planned to leave her elsewhere or throw her overboard until they realised they could not get her out of their cabin without being seen.

These are the people I prefer did not go on cruises, and we need to keep prices for cruises out of their reach.

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quote:

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Originally posted by desirod7:
Sutho, How old are you?

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Whats age got to do with this? I am 26 actually.

Be very carefull about interpreting or criticising my post as there are many people my age that I work with and go out with that like to have a quality time away from hooligans. The prices in the UK are perfect for me as they are not too cheap and not too expensive. I could have gone on with my post like numbers of drunk passengers overboard, but I did not - I know I am stereotyping and that not all what I am saying is 100% accurate. The truth is I have had allot of life experiences and have seen how all classes and different social types of people live and am old enough to make my own decisions about the people I choose to associate with.

Maybe I am lucky but I have never met a bunch of drunkards or hooligans on any cruise. 'Happy' people and some I would deem annoying, yes, but nothing more.

If anyone wants constant whining, predictable moans, hogwash, flowery posts in which the point could have been made in 1/10th the length just take a weekly dose of Liners List One knows exactly what most of the posters are going to say before even looking. The good stuff is hidden in the middle. Regardless of gripes and moans CT is still far more interesting and better than any other board/forum imo. Sometimes I can't be bothered to say things, or even read certain threads, so just start something new.

quote:

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Originally posted by PamM:
Exactly Tom, I would too, I go for the ship and the sea.

Maybe I am lucky but I have never met a bunch of drunkards or hooligans on any cruise. 'Happy' people and some I would deem annoying, yes, but nothing more.

If anyone wants constant whining, predictable moans, hogwash, flowery posts in which the point could have been made in 1/10th the length just take a weekly dose of Liners List One knows exactly what most of the posters are going to say before even looking. The good stuff is hidden in the middle. Regardless of gripes and moans CT is still far more interesting and better than any other board/forum imo. Sometimes I can't be bothered to say things, or even read certain threads, so just start something new.

Pam

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Exactly Pam !

As for prices, has one really compared prices ?

I am sometimes indeed under the impression that the same ship sailing from a continental port is a bit less expensive than the same ship sailing from a british port, but this can be prejudice.

Anyhow, I think that prices in the med have stabilised a bit, although there has been a major enlargement of berths and ships there, with yearly additions of megaships by Costa and MSC.

Anyhow, I looked in some 1999 brochures :
a week western mediterranean cruise with Rembrandt or Norway, 'tourist ships' by then cost more or less exactly the same in absolute figures, ca 40 000 BFRS then 1000 EURs now, as a western cruise now, or even more now than now, which means that in spending power, tourist cruises have gone down a lot in price.

Yesterday I saw an offer for 995 EUR for a caribbean cruise on Costa, flights from belgium and a hotelnight in Miami included (admittedly in november but still...)

Still, if they were cheaper, I'd cruise more, Tom !!

J

[ 08-02-2007: Message edited by: Johan ]

quote:

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Originally posted by greybeard:
Prices will come down across the board in order to achieve near-maximum capacity. And when they do, stand by for the flood of posts on CT complaining that cruising is attracting the wrong sort of passenger...

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That's a very good point. If UK cruise prices did drop significantly, it would surely change the market niche that are attracted to ex UK cruising.

This of course can be seen as a positive or negative.

[ 08-02-2007: Message edited by: Malcolm @ cruisepage ]

quote:

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If UK cruise prices did drop significantly, it would surely change the market niche that are attracted to ex UK cruising

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On our forthcoming 4-night cruise on Braemar, we paid about £60 per night. Although not the brochure price, this was a special offer circulated in a Fred Olsen 'Captain's Club' leaflet that we received last December.

quote:

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Originally posted by Tom Burke:
So I shall check for an above-average incidence of Hells Grannies....

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What I base my keeping the prices high is I have seen what lower fares can do particulary where the line caters to young people and goes to hot/tropical places and young people get on.

I have seen hooligans exist on a short Sapphire Princess cruise with regular security intervention, and also on Aurora of all ships when I hate to have to admit this, other Australians got "really cheap" cruises for cosat to coast bookings of 7 nights on its world voyage. Australians have been known to get P&O world cruises between Australian ports for as little as $80 per night opposed to $120 for the full brochure sectors.

I can honestly say I have noticed a big difference between what passengers do on a cruise ship for 7 nights out of Southampton opposed to one out of Sydney, or San Francisco.

Inde OTS would be full
Ventura - full
Pax from Thomson and similar might move to P&O as they discount to fill
FO have deployed Black Prince to smaller UK ports so might get away with it they would need to discount slightly to fill all berths (plus 2 ships in Caribbean for the first time)
Cunard will try harder overseas.
Norwegain Jade might take pax from Ocean Village and/or Thomson ?

quote:

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Originally posted by mike sa:

So the loosers might be the least expensive lines ? Very much as it has been in the States with Premier etc.

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A very good point--this occurred in the North American market within the last 10 years. A glut of new mega-ships caused cruise rates to go down to all-time lows (which is still continuing.) People suddenly weren't willing to sail the old ships of Regency, Commodore, Dolphin/Premier, etc. when they could spend a week on the new floating resorts for similar pricing. The older lines suddenly could not compete and went out of business.

A very possible scenario within the UK market, especially if there are more new ships spending the entire year there.

quote:

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Originally posted by PamM:
Exactly Tom, I would too, I go for the ship and the sea.

If anyone wants constant whining, predictable moans, hogwash, flowery posts in which the point could have been made in 1/10th the length just take a weekly dose of Liners List
Pam

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HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!
ROFLMAO!!!!!!

quote:

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Originally posted by PamM:

One knows exactly what most of the posters are going to say before even looking. The good stuff is hidden in the middle. Regardless of gripes and moans CT is still far more interesting and better than any other board/forum imo. Sometimes I can't be bothered to say things, or even read certain threads, so just start something new.

Pam

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There have been some comments to the effect that they will be thinking very hard before booking a European cruise for 2008, and that maybe next year they'll go back to 'Homeland Cruising'.

Obviously the majority won't do any such thing, but let's say that the high dollar reduces US passenger numbers in Europe next summer by 10%, compared with the figure the cruiselines are planning for. What do we think that will do to prices? Will the lines grimace & bear the cost of cruising with uneconomic loadings? Hold firesales? Or do something dramatic like cancel & redeploy?

[ 08-03-2007: Message edited by: Tom Burke ]

I have looked at cruises in the US and for some unknown reason they do not go more than 7 nights. I have even seen cruises as short as 4 nights (if you can honestly call that a cruise). It is very rare to see a cruise longer than 7 nights in the US.

In the UK they go fo 14 nights, 21 nights and longer with fewer shorter ones.

As I live way out in Australia, I can say that I will travel to the other side of the world to do a cruise of 14 nights or more. To travel to the other side of the world for a 7 nights cruise is hardly worth the time/effort and money.