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» Cruise Talk   » Cruise Lines   » Sexual assault on ships. How safe are we ?

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Author Topic: Sexual assault on ships. How safe are we ?
mike sa
First Class Passenger
Member # 5957

posted 09-12-2007 03:23 AM      Profile for mike sa   Author's Homepage   Email mike sa   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Sydney, Sep 11: An expert on ship safety has suggested that people are more likely to be sexually assaulted on a cruise ship than on land.

According to Professor Ross Klein, a sociologist from Canada's University of Newfoundland, people who assume that cruises are completely safe are gravely mistaken.

Shedding light on the so-called safe environment of a cruise, Prof Klein said that it was mostly crew members who were to blame for assaults.

Looking at figures provided to a US court by a cruise line, he found that 111 people per 100,000 were sexually assaulted on ships, indicating that people were 50 per cent more likely to be sexually assaulted on a ship than on land.

"If you were to go to the Cruise Lines International Association they will say that a cruise is the most safe form of transportation. That is now getting a bit of scrutiny," News.com.au quoted him, as saying.

"In the early '80s there was a case where two crew members tried raping a passenger and she died by accident, supposedly. They were caught throwing her body overboard as they were leaving the harbour," he added.

Cautioning people in general and parents in particular, Prof Klein said they should keep a close eye on children they take onto cruises.

"You have to go on assuming a cruise is no safer than any other form of transportation, and you take the exact same precautions, if not more precautions as you would take going into any city," he said.

"Parents whose children were sexually molested will often say `the cruise line told me it was safe. I thought it was OK for my children to run around free without supervision'" he added.

He said about 80 per cent of sexual assaults on cruises were carried out by staff.


Copyright Dailyindia.com/ANI

Reading the Daily India this surprised me.

Has anyone ever been a victim or know someone who has been a victim of crime on board a cruise ship ? Given the number of us and the number of times we cruise we should be fairly representative ? So how safe are we and should changes be made in the way that 1. Cruise lines market their holdiays (especially now P&O Australia has had to make significant changes to their marketing), 2. The way lines give advice 3. The way lines deal with issues when they arise ?

They are NO DOUBT members of crew who are available - whether that means they would commit an assault or not is questionable but it does raise the question, perhaps we through this topic could almost conduct a mini survey.


Posts: 2272 | From: Durban, South Africa | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged
PamM
First Class Passenger
Member # 2127

posted 09-12-2007 03:49 AM      Profile for PamM   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by mike sa:
Klein says - he found that 111 people per 100,000 were sexually assaulted on ships,

That many people cruise every week. I do not recall seeing 111 news reports every week on the subject. Seems more common than Norovirus.

Pam


Posts: 12176 | From: Cambridge, UK | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Tom Burke
First Class Passenger
Member # 5238

posted 09-12-2007 05:13 AM      Profile for Tom Burke   Author's Homepage   Email Tom Burke   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Looking at figures provided to a US court by a cruise line, he found that 111 people per 100,000 were sexually assaulted on ships, indicating that people were 50 per cent more likely to be sexually assaulted on a ship than on land.

Which court? Which line? When were they supplied? and in what context?


Posts: 1469 | From: Sheffield, UK | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
mike sa
First Class Passenger
Member # 5957

posted 09-12-2007 06:27 AM      Profile for mike sa   Author's Homepage   Email mike sa   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Lets for the sake of discussion assume that these (decidely if'y) figures are correct, lets us also allow that it does not matter which line etc provided the figures (from recall I believe it might be RCI who had to produce such figures by order of a judge in a case some time ago), the question is even if the numbers are less they would still be unsatisfactory and in order to solve the problem what should be done or indeed can we confirm that there is a problem ? For instance, P&O Australia were forced to withdraw an advert placed in papers that clearly appealed to the 20-40 single male traveller and blantantly advertised that if they took a cruise with P&O they would get laid.........now not all lines are that crass but does marketing etc add to the issue, are there crew members as suggested on board who do take advantage, are they screened ?

I know of 3 occasions over a 9 year period where a sexual assault took place on a ship I was employed on and once as a pax, no wasn't me before we go there, it is also true that as a passanger I have been aware of crew who will sleep with a pax on board and this within the last 10 years and as recently as 3. This does not make them a criminal of course.

This given it would seem that regardless of the figures involved there is an issue worth discussion and it is in the industry's interest to address the same. Has anyone else had experience of the same or knows of anyone who has ? or is the concensus that the numbers are so small that it is not issue ?


Posts: 2272 | From: Durban, South Africa | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged
Malcolm @ cruisepage
Cruise Director
Member # 301

posted 09-12-2007 06:55 AM      Profile for Malcolm @ cruisepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
An intersting topic, but the artical is very short on the clarification of the sources of the figures.

For example what is the definition of a ‘sexual assult’ in this context? Is pinching someone bum included? Does this include staff assulting staff? What about passengres being assulted by their own companions on the cruise?


Posts: 19210 | From: Essex (Just Outside London) | Registered: A Long Time Ago!  |  IP: Logged
Linerrich
First Class Passenger
Member # 4864

posted 09-12-2007 06:59 AM      Profile for Linerrich   Email Linerrich   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Let's not forget that Professor Ross Klein is the guy with a perpetual axe to grind against the cruise industry. His websites and books are nothing more than a hatchet-job against every aspect of cruising: crew pay and conditions, passenger safety and security, quality of food, sanitary conditions, etc. Setting himself up as a consumer advocate is good in theory, but everything gets blown way out of proportion, in scare tactics designed to sell himself and his books.

Rich


Posts: 4210 | From: Miami, FL | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
joe at travelpage
Administrator
Member # 622

posted 09-12-2007 08:42 AM      Profile for joe at travelpage   Author's Homepage   Email joe at travelpage   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Here's a link to a thread from a while ago when Professor Klein released his industry changing book "CRUISE SHIP BLUES"

In the book he recounts the following...

quote:
...Pulling into Cozumel, on one of my earliest cruises, one of the officers said: “You see that ship over there? The last time we were in the harbour, they took seven bodies off the ship.” He explained that the crew’s dining room had run out of rice and a food riot had erupted. People had died. That’s a whole different perspective from what you read about.

I still have not found another report about the cruise ship food riot that killed seven crew. Anyone else know about this incident?

Joe at TravelPage.com


Posts: 29976 | From: Great Falls, Virginia | Registered: A Long Time Ago!  |  IP: Logged
Malcolm @ cruisepage
Cruise Director
Member # 301

posted 09-12-2007 08:52 AM      Profile for Malcolm @ cruisepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I can imagine a passenger riot if a cruise ship ever ran out of food, but I would not expect loss of life apart from the head Chef.
Posts: 19210 | From: Essex (Just Outside London) | Registered: A Long Time Ago!  |  IP: Logged
Frosty 4
First Class Passenger
Member # 5826

posted 09-12-2007 10:16 AM      Profile for Frosty 4   Email Frosty 4   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I would venture to say that most of these rape/sexual assault cases started after passengers were in bars/lounges. Where the target would be vulerable after a few drinks. Even to the point of getting a "Mickey" from someone there.
With all the booze flowing this seems to be the logically place for this and the jumpers that we have seen lately. What do you think?
Frosty 4

Posts: 2531 | From: Illinois | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
6263866
First Class Passenger
Member # 5115

posted 09-12-2007 10:46 AM      Profile for 6263866   Email 6263866   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Pulling into Cozumel, on one of my earliest cruises, one of the officers said: “You see that ship over there? The last time we were in the harbour, they took seven bodies off the ship.” He explained that the crew’s dining room had run out of rice and a food riot had erupted. People had died. That’s a whole different perspective from what you read about.
quote:

Ive skimmmed though that book, I leantowards that it was written by someone who is just very angry at the cruising industry, rather than someon who"just want to tell the truth."


Posts: 580 | From: San Francisco | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
LeBarryboat
First Class Passenger
Member # 5308

posted 09-12-2007 11:23 AM      Profile for LeBarryboat   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Whenever you have a very large, successful business (industry) you're always going to get a few kooks - people who grumble and do all they can to find faults and destroy that business - unfortunately it's the dark-side of humanity.

Regarding safety onboard the ships: If you are a single young female flirting with the crew...add alcohol, then you could have a problem. Often passengers don't use good judgement while on vacation they throw all their inhibitions out the window (porthole) by drinking too much, flirting with the crew...and they think they are safe, but forget they are flirting with crew members that have hormones too. On the flip-side some of these crew members spend months and months on the ship and every week there's a new batch of passengers and new "opportunities".

I don't think the statistics above are accurate...even close to being accurate. It's certainly not an issue for the average cruiser to be concerned about.


Posts: 1955 | From: Minnesota | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
Sutho
First Class Passenger
Member # 6234

posted 09-13-2007 04:51 AM      Profile for Sutho   Email Sutho   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The professor is obviously a fool in my opinion and not worth taking seriously. P&O Australia released a statement on their website media reports crticising him.

I have spent over 150 nights at sea since 2002 and was never aware of any report on any of my cruises.

As a young male I can say that I have had sexual offers from other men that I politely declined and was never bothered again, and only had one woman about 5 years older than me kind of follow me around a bit on one cruise.


Posts: 1055 | From: Newcastle, Australia | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged
lasuvidaboy
First Class Passenger
Member # 4527

posted 09-13-2007 03:45 PM      Profile for lasuvidaboy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by LeBarryboat:

but forget they are flirting with crew members that have hormones too.



I have a girlfriend who is a regular on Costa (2-3 cruises per year) and that is part of the reason she goes! She is single, attractive in her late 40s and loves the attention of the goodlooking young crewmembers. A good time is apparently had by all-multiple times!


Posts: 7654 | From: Hollywood Hills/L.A. | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
Maasdam
First Class Passenger
Member # 3858

posted 09-13-2007 05:19 PM      Profile for Maasdam   Author's Homepage   Email Maasdam   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by lasuvidaboy:


I have a girlfriend who is a regular on Costa (2-3 cruises per year) and that is part of the reason she goes! She is single, attractive in her late 40s and loves the attention of the goodlooking young crewmembers. A good time is apparently had by all-multiple times!


Now give me here name and i will be here trave compagnon. Love the attention of good looking crew members too

Greetings Ben.


Posts: 4695 | From: Rotterdam home of the tss. Rotterdam. | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
Rex
First Class Passenger
Member # 1113

posted 09-30-2007 05:36 PM      Profile for Rex     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Did NCL ever settle that lawsuit re: the teenaged boy who was plied with liquor by a bartender on the Norway, then sexually assaulted? The same thing allegedly happened to a teenaged girl on the same ship a few years earlier. Consenting adults is one thing, but I absolutely HATE hearing about children being attacked.
Posts: 1413 | From: Philadelphia PA, USA | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Tim in Fort Lauderdale
First Class Passenger
Member # 953

posted 09-30-2007 07:53 PM      Profile for Tim in Fort Lauderdale     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by mike sa:
Sydney, Sep 11: An expert on ship safety has suggested that people are more likely to be sexually assaulted on a cruise ship than on land.

According to Professor Ross Klein, a sociologist from Canada's University of Newfoundland, people who assume that cruises are completely safe are gravely mistaken.


In my personal opinion, "Professor" Klein is a sensationalistic media w#ore who will say anything necessary to get himself quoted.

He's made a name for himself sensationalizing anything and everything he can to draw attention to himself.

Just my two cents...

Tim


Posts: 1468 | From: Fort Lauderdale, FL | Registered: Dec 1999  |  IP: Logged
Garnett
First Class Passenger
Member # 6346

posted 09-30-2007 09:45 PM      Profile for Garnett   Email Garnett   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The good professor has a website. Draw your own conclusions.


http://www.cruisejunkie.com/


Garnett


Posts: 72 | From: North Carolina, USA | Registered: Mar 2006  |  IP: Logged

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