Log In | Customer Support
Home Book Travel Destinations Hotels Cruises Air Travel Community Search:

Search

Search CruisePage

Book a Cruise
- CruiseServer
- Search Caribbean
- Search Alaska
- Search Europe
- 888.700.TRIP

Book Online
Cruise
Air
Hotel
Car
Cruising Area:

Departure Date:
Cruise Length:

Price Range:

Cruise Line:

Buy Stuff

Reviews
- Ship Reviews
- Dream Cruise
- Ship of the Month
- Reader Reviews
- Submit a Review
- Millennium Cruise

Community
- Photo Gallery
- Join Cruise Club
- Cruise News
- Cruise News Archive
- Cruise Views
- Cruise Jobs
- Special Needs
- Maritime Q & A
- Sea Stories

Industry
- New Ship Guide
- Former Ships
- Port Information
- Inspection Scores
- Shipyards
- Ship Cams
- Ship Tracking
- Freighter Travel
- Man Overboard List
- Potpourri

Shopping
- Shirts & Hats
- Books
- Videos

Contact Us
- Reservations
- Mail
- Feedback
- Suggest-a-Site
- About Us

Reader Sites
- PamM's Site
- Ernst's Site
- Patsy's Site
- Ben's Site
- Carlos' Site
- Chris' Site
- SRead's Site


Cruise Travel - Cruise Talk
Cruise Talk Cruise News

Welcome to Cruise Talk the Internet's most popular discussion forum dedicated to cruising. Stop by Cruise Talk anytime to post a message or find out what your fellow passengers and industry insiders are saying about a particular ship, cruise line or destination.

>>> Reader Reviews
>>> CruisePage.com Photo Gallery
>>> Join Our Cruise Club.

Latest News...Disney Cruise Line announced today that the honorary role of "godparent" for its new ship, the Disney Treasure, will be held by The Walt Disney Company cast, crew, Imagineers and employees around the world. The profound declaration is a heartfelt tribute to the more than 200,000 dreamers and doers who make every Disney entertainment, vacation and at-home experience possible. Disney Cruise Line is proud to celebrate...

Latest News...Carnival Cruise Line is adding to its line-up of 2026/27 deployment with sailings from New York City on Carnival Venezia, and more Long Beach sailings on Carnival Firenze and Carnival Radiance. “Our two Carnival Fun Italian Style ships offer great options from the east and west coasts, conveniently connecting New York and Long Beach to popular destinations, while delivering unique experiences on board...

Latest News...Vacationers are in for more ways to make memories across Royal Caribbean’s latest combination of tropical and Northeast 2026-27 getaways. The lineup of 12 Royal Caribbean ships rounds out a variety of adventures across Florida, Texas, Puerto Rico and the Northeast for every type of family and vacationer to get away any time of year. Crown & Anchor Society loyalty members...

More Cruise News...


Post New Topic  Post A Reply
my profile | register | search | faq | forum home
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» Cruise Talk   » Cruise Lines   » HAL, fuel surcharges yet reduced speed

UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!    
Author Topic: HAL, fuel surcharges yet reduced speed
Grant
First Class Passenger
Member # 1000

posted 08-21-2008 03:37 PM      Profile for Grant   Email Grant   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Most of us understand that cruise lines are facing a problem with revenue from fares set many months ago and the cost of fuel today. The options faced by the cruise lines were either reduced consumption through reduced speed which would affect published itineraries, or the additition of fuel surcharges that would permit the vessels sail at the predetermined speeds and visit ports as planned.

Is it fair then, to have Holland America charge the fuel surcharges, and yet reduce vessel speeds thus reducing port times?

I think this is unfair and perhaps even a sleezy business practice! Either give back the money collected in fuel surcharges and face an altered itinerary due to reduced speed, or collect and keep the thousands of dollars and maintain the speed necessary to live up to the published itinerary.
Westerdam is arriving several hours late into Victoria owing to cut backs in speed, yet large fuel surcharges are in place. On the other hand, Princess, Celebrity and Norwegian are arrving on time, with Norwegian having left later and passing Westerdam enroute!!!! There are many HAL complaints over this, and it has made it to the media as well.

[ 08-21-2008: Message edited by: Grant ]


Posts: 834 | From: Victoria, BC, Canada | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged
jeffrossatsea
First Class Passenger
Member # 2962

posted 08-22-2008 01:19 AM      Profile for jeffrossatsea   Email jeffrossatsea   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
send your complaint to holland america c/c carnival...i'm sure the big guy at the mother ship is commanding his fleet.....jeff
Posts: 1118 | From: vancouver | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
mike sa
First Class Passenger
Member # 5957

posted 08-22-2008 10:17 AM      Profile for mike sa   Author's Homepage   Email mike sa   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The problem with these type of charges is that there is no transparancy, for instance if you are being charged say $10 a day fuel levy when oil is at $130 a barrel, at what point should this be reduced ? $120, $110 or $100 a barrel ? Likewise at what point should you no longer pay fuel levy - $75 a barrel ?

The danger is that these end up being quasi permanent and the cruises lines in effect coluding over their abolishment.

There should be some arrangement where by if they need to have these charges for more than say 18 months that they should at that time be abolished and included into regular published fares. It is then a level playing field and fair to the consumer. Its a bit like including or excluding port charges but worse.


Posts: 2272 | From: Durban, South Africa | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged
Atlcruiser
First Class Passenger
Member # 4586

posted 08-22-2008 01:35 PM      Profile for Atlcruiser   Email Atlcruiser   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
It's not just HAL doing this. I have read that other cruise lines are also doing this. RCI and Carnival to name two more that have eliminated a port of call so that the ship can cruise at a slower speed.
Posts: 916 | From: Atlanta | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
Linerrich
First Class Passenger
Member # 4864

posted 08-22-2008 01:50 PM      Profile for Linerrich   Email Linerrich   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The matter of fuel surcharges has been prevalent in the cruise industry this year, but is nothing new. In my files I've just discovered a newspaper clipping from the Christian Science Monitor,
dated February 1, 1974:

"YOU CAN'T CRUISE AWAY FROM FUEL COSTS"

"Thinking of getting away from the energy crisis be taking a cruise in warm crystal waters around exotic islands?
You will probably find the fuel crunch pursues you even there.
Nearly all cruise lines have added or are adding a surcharge to their rates. Varying with length of cruise from $3 to $8 a day per passenger, it helps the shipowners pay for fuel which has quadrupled
in price in recent months.
Many cruise ships have slightly altered their itineraries, either to save fuel or to go to ports better able to supply their fuel needs.
Chandris America Line's ship AMERIKANIS, for example, has dropped Barbados from its West Indies cruise and substituted Curacao where
there is a massive refinery complex and refueling is more certain.
Some ships are slowing down as well as skipping occasional ports, all to save expensive fuel. Cunard's QUEEN ELIZABETH II [sic], for
instance, no longer stops at St. Martin (one of half a dozen ports previously visited) but cruises the Caribbean at reduced speed instead.
Cancellations of cruises for reasons of fuel scarcity alone are rare. But a combination of low bookings and high fuel prices has prompted at least one cancellation--that of a Holland-America Line
cruise from New York to the South Pacific.
Although ship-fuel supplies in some areas are critically scarce, the main blow to the cruise industry is the rocketing fuel price. It has gone up from around $20-$25 a ton six months ago to $90-$100 a ton today.
The effects of the price hike vary from ship to ship, depending on length of cruise, speed, number of ports, engine type, and other factors. But some shippers reckon that it is costing them something
on the order of $16 per passenger per day. Hence, they say, the $8 per day surcharge covers only half their increased costs and they themselves absorb the rest.
In the words of William Armstrong, executive officer of the International Passenger Ship Association, to which about half the major lines belong, the extra costs 'have been somewhat allayed by levying a surcharge.'
He adds that it is too soon to know whether higher passenger prices will result in a falloff in bookings. But he would not be surprised at a temporary falloff, at least until the public recognizes that the surcharges are an 'ordinary, understandable fact of life'--just like waiting in line at gas stations to buy higher-priced gas, perhaps.
Most changes in cruise ship itineraries have been made to economize in face of these high fuel prices, rather than because fuel was simply unobtainable.
But shippers have often been able to combine fuel economies with minimal inconvenience to passengers.
The Holland-America Line has altered many of its port arriving and leaving times so its ships can cruise more slowly and economically between ports--down from around 21 knots to 16-18 knots. Leaving St.Thomas at 6 in the evening rather than 2 the following morning makes little difference to most passengers, who are usually on board
by then anyway.
Cunard's San Juan-based ship, the CUNARD ADVENTURER, no longer visits Grenada, a change which saves more fuel than woudl cutting out
any other of the ship's usual stopovers. At the same time, Cunard spokesmen point out, Grenada is losing its popularity with cruise liners because of political unrest there.
So, you can still go a-cruising in the Caribbean. But you'll probably have to pay more for this luxurious privilege--and you may cut through the waves a little slower and make one or two fewer
landings on those balmy islands."

Rich


Posts: 4210 | From: Miami, FL | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
Globaliser
First Class Passenger
Member # 4153

posted 08-22-2008 02:31 PM      Profile for Globaliser     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Grant:
I think this is unfair and perhaps even a sleezy business practice! Either give back the money collected in fuel surcharges and face an altered itinerary due to reduced speed, or collect and keep the thousands of dollars and maintain the speed necessary to live up to the published itinerary.
Why should it be an either/or situation?

What the cruise lines are doing is defraying part of the fuel problem by collecting a fuel surcharge, and dealing with a further part of the problem by reducing the operating cost.

Would you rather the cruise line collected even more in fuel surcharges, just so that they can keep their originally-planned ship speeds?


Posts: 1869 | From: UK | Registered: Sep 2003  |  IP: Logged
PamM
First Class Passenger
Member # 2127

posted 08-22-2008 02:31 PM      Profile for PamM   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
This would have been the aftermath of the '73 Arab/Israeli war. I recall the day oil hit the $10 a barrel mark for the first time.

Pam


Posts: 12176 | From: Cambridge, UK | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Linerrich
First Class Passenger
Member # 4864

posted 08-22-2008 03:24 PM      Profile for Linerrich   Email Linerrich   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by PamM:
This would have been the aftermath of the '73 Arab/Israeli war. I recall the day oil hit the $10 a barrel mark for the first time.

Pam


Yes, it was, and a real eye-opener for lots of us used to cheap fuel. I had just gotten my driver's license, bought my first car, and gas went up from 48 cents a gallon to over $1.00! I think in real dollars, it was a much bigger price hike than we've experienced in 2008.

Rich


Posts: 4210 | From: Miami, FL | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
PamM
First Class Passenger
Member # 2127

posted 08-22-2008 04:17 PM      Profile for PamM   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I expect it was.. didn't affect us as living where we did, petrol was free Now wouldn't that be lovely today!

Pam


Posts: 12176 | From: Cambridge, UK | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Malcolm @ cruisepage
Cruise Director
Member # 301

posted 08-22-2008 04:41 PM      Profile for Malcolm @ cruisepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by PamM:
I expect it was.. didn't affect us as living where we did, petrol was free

Now where can one live with free petrol?


Posts: 19210 | From: Essex (Just Outside London) | Registered: A Long Time Ago!  |  IP: Logged
PamM
First Class Passenger
Member # 2127

posted 08-22-2008 04:49 PM      Profile for PamM   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
No where these days I shouldn't think.

Pam


Posts: 12176 | From: Cambridge, UK | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Grant
First Class Passenger
Member # 1000

posted 08-22-2008 05:14 PM      Profile for Grant   Email Grant   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Globaliser-my point is that if all the other cruise lines on the identical run are all charging about the same amount in a fuel surcharge and have opted to continue sailing at a speed that allows the itinerary to remain intact, then it is only the Holland American passengers that are getting the short end of the stick!

For example Infinity, Norwegian Pearl, and Golden Princess all arrive as planned, and only Westerdam continues to arrive much later. I would have expected better from a "premium" cruise line.


Posts: 834 | From: Victoria, BC, Canada | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged
Thad
First Class Passenger
Member # 1224

posted 08-22-2008 05:34 PM      Profile for Thad   Email Thad   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
On my cruise a few weeks ago we (Golden Princess) left prior to Oosterdam on the way from Ketchikan to Victoria, and yet the Oosterdam got in a good hour or so before us. So not sure HAL is always slowing down.
Posts: 1967 | From: Boston, MA | Registered: Apr 2000  |  IP: Logged
Waynaro
First Class Passenger
Member # 3484

posted 08-23-2008 08:51 PM      Profile for Waynaro   Email Waynaro   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Thad:
On my cruise a few weeks ago we (Golden Princess) left prior to Oosterdam on the way from Ketchikan to Victoria, and yet the Oosterdam got in a good hour or so before us. So not sure HAL is always slowing down.
I agree with Thad. On my cruise onboard CROWN PRINCESS, ROTTERDAM followed us out of St. Petersburg, but soon after their pilot disembarked, they overtook us.

On the other hand, we followed PRINSENDAM out of Dt. Petersburg, but we got to Tallinn the next day before her by atleast 40 minutes...


Posts: 6108 | From: Vallejo,CA : California Maritime Academy!!! | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
Norfolk Boy
First Class Passenger
Member # 5387

posted 08-25-2008 05:09 AM      Profile for Norfolk Boy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I think it is hard to apprecite just how much of an effect the increase in the oil price has had to the cruise lines.
Sure, we all feel the increase in our pockets at the gas pumps, but as a rough example, 12 moths ago bunker fuel was costing just around $400 a tonne in Europe. This summer it is aorund $850. Your average cruise ship will burn 100 to 150 tonnes per day. This rise is killing them. I am only surprised that the fares have not started to go up yet, a factor of the huge amount of berths to fill I guess.
Grant if you think HAL are not being fair with you I would write to them - and cruise with someone else.

Posts: 28 | From: Miami | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged

All times are ET (US)  

Post New Topic  Post A Reply Close Topic    Move Topic    Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
Hop To:

Contact Us | CruisePage

Infopop Corporation
Ultimate Bulletin BoardTM 6.1.0.3

VACATION & CRUISE SPECIALS
Check out these great deals from CruisePage.com

Royal Caribbean - Bahamas Getaway from $129 per person
Description: Experience the beautiful ports of Nassau and Royal Caribbean's private island - CocoCay on a 3-night Weekend Getaway to the Bahamas. Absorb everything island life has to offer as you snorkel with the stingrays, parasail above the serene blue waters and walk the endless white sand beaches. From Miami.
Carnival - 4-Day Bahamas from $229 per person
Description: Enjoy a wonderful 3 Day cruise to the fun-loving playground of Nassau, Bahamas. Discover Nassau, the capital city as well as the cultural, commercial and financial heart of the Bahamas. Meet the Atlantic Southern Stingrays, the guardians of Blackbeard's treasure.
NCL - Bermuda - 7 Day from $499 per person
Description: What a charming little chain of islands. Walk on pink sand beaches. Swim and snorkel in turquoise seas. Take in the historical sights. They're stoically British and very quaint. Or explore the coral reefs. You can get to them by boat or propelled by fins. You pick. Freestyle Cruising doesn't tell you where to go or what to do. Sure, you can plan ahead, or decide once onboard. After all, it's your vacation. There are no deadlines or must do's.
Holland America - Eastern Caribbean from From $599 per person
Description: White sand, black sand, talcum soft or shell strewn, the beaches of the Eastern Caribbean invite you to swim, snorkel or simply relax. For shoppers, there's duty-free St. Thomas, the Straw Market in Nassau, French perfume and Dutch chocolates on St. Maarten. For history buffs, the fascinating fusion of Caribbean, Latin and European cultures. For everyone, a day spent on HAL's award winning private island Half Moon Cay.
Celebrity - 7-Night Western Mediterranean from $549 per person
Description: For centuries people have traveled to Europe to see magnificent ruins, art treasures and natural wonders. And the best way to do so is by cruise ship. Think of it - you pack and unpack only once. No wasted time searching for hotels and negotiating train stations. Instead, you arrive at romantic ports of call relaxed, refreshed and ready to take on the world.
Holland America - Alaska from From $499 per person
Description: Sail between Vancouver and Seward, departing Sundays on the ms Statendam or ms Volendam and enjoy towering mountains, actively calving glaciers and pristine wildlife habitat. Glacier Bay and College Fjord offer two completely different glacier-viewing experiences.

| Home | About Us | Suggest-a-Site | Feedback | Contact Us | Privacy |
This page, and all contents, are © 1995-2021 by Interactive Travel Guides, Inc. and/or its suppliers. All rights reserved.
TravelPage.com is a trademark of Interactive Travel Guides, Inc.
Powered by TravelServer Software