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» Cruise Talk   » Cruise Lines   » How will this affect NCL

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Author Topic: How will this affect NCL
William
First Class Passenger
Member # 2036

posted 10-03-2008 06:36 AM      Profile for William   Email William   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I have just read this article, and it describe that private equity firms are the next to pop in the current financial crisis. And the article mentioned about Apollo Management, which I believe is part owner of NCL.

quote:
Take Realogy, formerly Cendant, the world's largest real estate franchisor, whose businesses include Century 21, Coldwell Banker and Sotheby's International Realty. Its debt trades at about 75 cents (U.S.) on the dollar, a level that implies a fairly high chance of default.

This is bad news for Leon Black's , Apollo Management one of the world's biggest private equity firms. Its purchase of Realogy, completed in the spring of 2007, when the buyout frenzy was at its height, valued the company at $8.5-billion. It's safe to assume Realogy is worth considerably less today as real estate values go into the tank.

While the partners of private equity firms were built up as swashbuckling captains of capitalism, the reality is that their business model was dead simple: Goose investment returns by buying an asset with as little equity as possible.

[/QB]


Definitely not trying to spread rumour, but if you try to connect all the current news together, the cancellation of sale of the Norweigan Dream, the problems with the F3, the $99 four day cruise, and NCL are selling 7 days cruises out of Miami for $339 in October, November and December. It sure sounds like that the company is in a serious cash flow problem.


Posts: 75 | From: Ottawa, ON | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Neil - Ex P & O & PRINCESS CRUISES
First Class Passenger
Member # 5641

posted 10-03-2008 08:58 AM      Profile for Neil - Ex P & O & PRINCESS CRUISES   Author's Homepage   Email Neil - Ex P & O & PRINCESS CRUISES   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
With the reduced prices for some of their cruises it looks like an all out effort is being made to raise funds after Louis Cruises failed to buy the second ship.

They could have financial problems as a lot of cruise companies buy fuel well in advance of it being required which could also affect their cash flow situation.


Posts: 2355 | From: Dunstable, Bedfordshire. 30 miles north of London | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
Fairsky
First Class Passenger
Member # 781

posted 10-03-2008 09:17 AM      Profile for Fairsky   Email Fairsky   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Honsetly, NCL should just give away their cabins for free and then charge people for every conceivable item onboard...water, sheets, even toilet paper. That's basically the direction they're heading anyway.

I actually hope NCL does fold, and then a real shipping company with vision buys them up...like MSC.


Posts: 1685 | From: Chicago, Illinois | Registered: Jul 99  |  IP: Logged
Malcolm @ cruisepage
Cruise Director
Member # 301

posted 10-03-2008 09:43 AM      Profile for Malcolm @ cruisepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Fairsky:
Honsetly, NCL should just give away their cabins for free and then charge people for every conceivable item onboard...water, sheets, even toilet paper. That's basically the direction they're heading anyway.

I don't see that direction as being wrong: it's not going to be popular with everyone, but it's an interesting option.


Posts: 19210 | From: Essex (Just Outside London) | Registered: A Long Time Ago!  |  IP: Logged
cruceromania
First Class Passenger
Member # 5195

posted 10-03-2008 09:53 AM      Profile for cruceromania   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Another rumour: Norwegian Dream and/or Norwegian Sky to Quail Cruises...
Posts: 91 | From: Spain | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged
rd77
First Class Passenger
Member # 2117

posted 10-03-2008 10:17 AM      Profile for rd77   Email rd77   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by cruceromania:
Another rumour: Norwegian Dream and/or Norwegian Sky to Quail Cruises...

Do they have funds then???? Pullmantur tried to buy NORWEGIAN SKY but they were turned down as they only offered $310 million compared to Star's asking price of $320 million....

On the other hand, maybe NCL is willing to charter out the vessels to Quail (who would then probably put them in the lucrative Brazilian market for the winter). NCL themselves don't really seem to have a clue what else to do with these vessels at the moment.

Brgds.
Ralph


Posts: 1037 | From: The Hague, Netherlands | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
eroller
First Class Passenger
Member # 1649

posted 10-03-2008 10:43 AM      Profile for eroller     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Not just NCL, but how will it affect Oceania and Regent as well? I recall back when Apollo started buying up these cruise lines, Micky Arison had some serious concerns about private equity firms. He mentioned Carnival had no desire to get involved with one, even though they can be an enticing option for companies that need cash. It will be interesting to see how it all plays out.

Ernie


Posts: 7046 | From: Miami, Florida USA | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged
desirod7
First Class Passenger
Member # 1626

posted 10-03-2008 11:06 AM      Profile for desirod7     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by eroller:
Not just NCL, but how will it affect Oceania and Regent as well? Ernie

IMO NCL was always a shaky like Chrysler.
Star Cruises was and is tone deaf to the American cruise market the way Mercedes ruined Chrysler by not understanding the American mass market.

Frank Del Rio: founder of Oceania is the Chairman of Prestige Cruise Holdings: Apollo's umbrella for its cruise lines. I have met him in person. He has the feel for the industry and surrounds himself with good people.

I believe NCL America can work with one ship. It is a niche market at best. The Dawn/Star/Pearl/Gem are very good ships. Up the service levels and keep the entertainment at the high quality level of the early SSNorway days and they will get repeat passengers.

Freestyle: One of the 10 dining rooms offer traditional fixed seating. It works best for families and group cruisers.

[ 10-03-2008: Message edited by: desirod7 ]


Posts: 5727 | From: Philadelphia, Pa [home of the SS United States] | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged
mike sa
First Class Passenger
Member # 5957

posted 10-03-2008 11:11 AM      Profile for mike sa   Author's Homepage   Email mike sa   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
If it effected NCL it would potentially be even worse for Oceania and Regent as they are in effect fully owned.

Apollo (and all other firms of this type) manages large sums of private money they also use their assets and this cash to leverage or buy in or loan further sums of cash, given that the credit market has in effect dried up this could be a huge problem as some firms will need to lend money to pay back other money and of course money lent today is now much more expesnive than it used to be. Even one of these firms having problems would be a huge problem for all of them as confidence would disappear overnight and the cash with it.

I can see Quail maybe getting Dream but not Sky, would have thought it was just too expensive and I doubt they are ready for that sort of tonnage yet - would be like NCL trying to run a 150,000grt ship !.

Well best wishes to Prestige and even NCL, we don't want to loose them - just get rid of their lousy management team who seem to go out of their way to find every banana skin possible !

If Apollo are short of money then the real telling point will be quite soon, they were going to order new ships for Regent weren't they, if they don't........also do they not have an option for another ship for Oceania ? When does that have to be confirmed ?


Posts: 2272 | From: Durban, South Africa | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged
ahrpd
First Class Passenger
Member # 6229

posted 10-03-2008 02:17 PM      Profile for ahrpd     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by cruceromania:
Another rumour: Norwegian Dream and/or Norwegian Sky to Quail Cruises...

Has Quail made any impact with PACIFIC, a small and middle-aged ship (by today's norm) and has it the financial clout to buy any additional tonnage?

Tony


Posts: 948 | From: gibraltar | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged
NWLB
First Class Passenger
Member # 1987

posted 10-03-2008 03:08 PM      Profile for NWLB   Author's Homepage   Email NWLB   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
RD77 noted in another thread about F3, that Apollo was forced to honor an agreement to buy a chemical company, after trying to back out of the deal.

He asked if this could be a sign of credit issues for Apollo.

The signs would seem to hint at trouble with Apollo.

It makes you wonder when the first ship will dock and not depart, or the first time a crew isn't paid, or paid late, or suppliers are asked for credit.


Posts: 329 | From: Bowling Green, Ohio | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
jetwet1
First Class Passenger
Member # 6361

posted 10-03-2008 03:24 PM      Profile for jetwet1   Author's Homepage   Email jetwet1   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by desirod7:

Frank Del Rio: founder of Oceania is the Chairman of Prestige Cruise Holdings: Apollo's umbrella for its cruise lines. I have met him in person. He has the feel for the industry and surrounds himself with good people.


[ 10-03-2008: Message edited by: desirod7 ]


I have known Frank for many years, yes he does know how to run a cruise line.

As I have not been able to keep up the on going exec situation at NCL and Apollo, is he now in charge of all the groups cruise holdings or just Regent and Oceania. I guess what I am trying to ask is, is he Colin Veitch boss or not if not would Apollo be able to pressure Star into this situation ?


Posts: 608 | From: Las VEgas | Registered: Mar 2006  |  IP: Logged
cruceromania
First Class Passenger
Member # 5195

posted 10-03-2008 04:17 PM      Profile for cruceromania   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by ahrpd:

Has Quail made any impact with PACIFIC, a small and middle-aged ship (by today's norm) and has it the financial clout to buy any additional tonnage?

Tony


Two Quail shareholders:

Globalia Corporation http://www.globalia-corp.com/

CVC Group http://www.cvc.com.br


Posts: 91 | From: Spain | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged
Neil - Ex P & O & PRINCESS CRUISES
First Class Passenger
Member # 5641

posted 10-03-2008 06:59 PM      Profile for Neil - Ex P & O & PRINCESS CRUISES   Author's Homepage   Email Neil - Ex P & O & PRINCESS CRUISES   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
According to a report Star Cruises shares have dropped in value by about 75% in the last twelve months.

They own half of NCL so there could be problems for Star Cruises as well.


Posts: 2355 | From: Dunstable, Bedfordshire. 30 miles north of London | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
William
First Class Passenger
Member # 2036

posted 10-04-2008 08:39 AM      Profile for William   Email William   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Personally, looking at the financials and the news that is coming out of this company, I will be somewhat concern with booking an NCL cruise right now. Yes, people will be able to recover their cruise fare if they close shop through their credit card companies, but what about airfare and other expense that were prepaid?
Posts: 75 | From: Ottawa, ON | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Rex
First Class Passenger
Member # 1113

posted 10-04-2008 02:31 PM      Profile for Rex     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
My sympathy lies only with the workers, not the execs....
Posts: 1413 | From: Philadelphia PA, USA | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Neil - Ex P & O & PRINCESS CRUISES
First Class Passenger
Member # 5641

posted 10-04-2008 05:35 PM      Profile for Neil - Ex P & O & PRINCESS CRUISES   Author's Homepage   Email Neil - Ex P & O & PRINCESS CRUISES   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Perhaps Louis Cruises have discovered that NCL have financial problems, due to poor management, and are hoping to pick up some of their ships at a lower price.
Posts: 2355 | From: Dunstable, Bedfordshire. 30 miles north of London | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged

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