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He has obviously become a very pretentious person too big for his own boots and has forgotten his humble beginnings as one of the worthless cruise staff/tours assistant/cruise director he so often criticises in excess.
One answer is not to buy the guide !
It might bring him down to the real world !
But I agree with you all. I too stoped purchasing the book because of the inacuracies as well as his attitude. In one edition, when the Costa Atlantica was brand new, he said that (I am paraphrasing) The winter crowd onboard the Costa Atlantica's first Caribbean run after her summer season in Europe, broke the chairs in the Cafe Florintine (sp?). Who would the winter crowd be? Americans, since the ship leaves out of Lauderdale.
While I realize that Americans are one of the heaviest societies that is a blanket and rude statement to make. Costa is known to fill their ships with a large number of European groups as well on Caribbean sailings from the U.S. I just found his statement stereotypical and foolish.
There are other examples but this is just one. I think they should get another author!
I don't see the problem, Mr. Ward writes a guide book. It's just that, a 'guide' not some sort of 'Bible'. I've certainly found it useful at times. If you don't like it, just avoid it.
Your future Radio shows sound interesting.
quote:Originally posted by Sutho:You know his books are riddled with technically inacurate information, facts that are not correct, statistics that are not correct such as lenght, beam, tonnage, passenger capacity and size.
Whereas all your posts to CruiseTalk are 100 per cent accurate and not blighted by any bias or personal opinion whatsoever ?
Douglas Ward does not get it right all the time, but he has far more experience of cruise ships and cruising than 99.999 per cent of us, and he works diligently (in a job all of us envy) to get it right. He is fastidious to the point of obsession in his pursuit of accuracy and detail.
I simply do not accept the unfounded allegations that he shows bias towards small ships or demonstrates a hatred of large ships.
If he has opinions to express, they are based on years of experience of all kinds of vessels. In a face-off between Ward v Sutho, I know whose opinions I would prefer.
[ 12-19-2008: Message edited by: greybeard ]
I think the only problem with him is that there seems to be an attitude like the comment about the chairs. A person who wants to read a review of ship, especially if they are new to cruising does not need to know that a certain peolple in the world are so heavy they a breaking chairs. Thats foolishness to me.
Also I notice that when ships are sisters and share the same class, such as the Fantasy class ships at Carnival and the Voyager class at RCI. Mr. Ward repeats the same review for each ship with some alterations. While I know the ships ars similiar it feels like he cut and pasted everything. I know I am being too critical!
I am sure he has a lot of insight and can't wait to listen to the interview.
quote:Originally posted by nycruiser:While I realize that Americans are one of the heaviest societies
While I realize that Americans are one of the heaviest societies
Thankfully we are'nt the fattest-at least for now. We come in #3 behind #1 Mexico and #2 Australia. After the holidays we might be #1 again
Take the Ruby Princess for example, is it 113,000 grt or 116,000 grt? Both values are reported.
quote:Originally posted by greybeard:Douglas Ward does not get it right all the time, but he has far more experience of cruise ships and cruising than 99.999 per cent of us, and he works diligently (in a job all of us envy) to get it right. He is fastidious to the point of obsession in his pursuit of accuracy and detail.[ 12-19-2008: Message edited by: greybeard ]
I think that any previous passenger of a cruise ship would be able to provide a better review than douglas ward. At least with the average cruiser you are getting an honest opinion and not holding a bias towards the companies that have treated you well with all the perks or bent over backwards to make you feel more important because they know you are there to review it. Personally I will believe a passengers review or blog of a ship over his opinion any day.
He has honeslty described Carnival cruise line as a line for drunks and yobbos and complete losers. He makes out the people on those cruises are disrespectfu distastefull people. Where as I have met people on cruises who have travelled with Carnival in Europe and had nothing but praise for the line.
If I believed all his opinions there are allot of lines that I would not consider sailing with.
quote:Originally posted by Sutho:I think that any previous passenger of a cruise ship would be able to provide a better review than douglas ward. At least with the average cruiser you are getting an honest opinion and not holding a bias towards the companies that have treated you well with all the perks or bent over backwards to make you feel more important because they know you are there to review it. Personally I will believe a passengers review or blog of a ship over his opinion any day.He has honeslty described Carnival cruise line as a line for drunks and yobbos and complete losers. He makes out the people on those cruises are disrespectfu distastefull people. Where as I have met people on cruises who have travelled with Carnival in Europe and had nothing but praise for the line.If I believed all his opinions there are allot of lines that I would not consider sailing with.
Source or are you just being libelous?
quote:Originally posted by NauticalCities:Source or are you just being libelous?
I refer to comments in his 2004 edition. He describes Carnival passengers idea of formal nights as an ironed pair of jeans and a clean sweat shirt.
He lists as peeves too many passengers walking around swigging from water bottles.
Should I go on?
I have several of his guides dating from late 90s to 2008, he has never described pax of any line as "drunks, yobbos and complete loosers" so you should retract this.
While there are errors in his guides of a technical nature regarding grt etc given that cruise lines can't get their own info right it is hardly surprising as it is supplied to him by them, for instance it is a regular occurence for Princess to stuff up grt figures on the later Grand class. I have seen errors by Cunard on QM2, and from RCI and others.
As pointed out his guide is a GUIDE not a bible. Of the ones I have seen it is probably better than most.
I met him once on Pacific Princess, he was charming, considerate and polite, he made a point of rewarding the staff/crew for their service and assistance and even though he found quite a few things wrong on several occasions I heard him singing the ship's praises to the pax he talked to on board. And he was not on a freebie.
It is also regional of how people act and dress.
I was on the QM2 out of NYC last Feb and while it is very dressy each evening on elegant casual nights younger people in their 20s and 30s broke out their NICE jeans to wear including myself. The Programme clearly said no jeans but many people were wearing them. You go to any good restuarant in Manhattan on a Friday and Saturday night and the young crowd has jeans and collared shirts on (the men). A nice dark pair of designer jeans and a nice collared shirt is what many people wear these days. While the staff may not have liked it on the QM2 and maybe Mr. Ward would not care for it is what people wear today in the NYC area and I am sure in many other places.
To stereotype the people who go on specific cruise line in a guide book is in poor taste IMO. I personally think he can improve his reviews a bit by elminating comments about the people who cruise since I have found that the itinerary and port of departure in collaboration with the cruise line also play a big role in who is on board.
As many have pointed out cruise lines do offer conflicting reports about their own ship's size. I could see now how that can be a challenge for him to get correct in his book.
I suspect Princess deliberatly misleads you with tonnage and rounds it up. Example Diamond and Sapphire Princess were originally stated as 113,000tons and ended up 114,000 tons and 116,000tons. I suspect that has to do with the paranoia of people and an unjustified fear of the number #13!
As for Ward I believe it was in the 2004 edition but one thing I noticed that stereotyped passengers was a reference to passengers who sport tattoos and a few words by him criticising such people as not the right ones to be on a cruise ship. In the 2007 edition he lays into Costa cruises as a line that promotes smoking and states that even the staff smoke all through the ship and that they disobey non smoking signs.
As I have never cruised with Costa I probably wouldnt if I were to believe this report, however given his inaccurate information in the past I am sceptical of what to belive from him.
I find it amusing that the self proclaimed worlds foremost authority on cruising doesnt have the required knowledge to back up his claim.
quote:Originally posted by Sutho:He has honeslty described Carnival cruise line as a line for drunks and yobbos and complete losers.
quote:Originally posted by Sutho:I refer to comments in his 2004 edition. He describes Carnival passengers idea of formal nights as an ironed pair of jeans and a clean sweat shirt.
I will admit that he has sometimes said things in his books at which I have been rather taken aback - as an example a comment that on HAL they have a lot of canned fruit, "good for old passengers with no teeth," which thought was a cheap shot, but he has never said anything along the lines of what you claim. Unless you are prepared to quote his exact words where he calls Carnival passengers those things, you are grossly misrepresenting what he has said.
I am not always the first person to rush to Mr. Ward's defense. At times I have criticized him fairly strongly. Certainly, I have sometimes been rather shocked by some of the factual errors in his book - it really should be better-edited. (That said, anyone who thinks it is easy to get all these details right has evidently never tried it - I have at times had to compile statistics on a much smaller number of ships than is in his book and it is no easy task! The "statistics" in his books are not as accurate as they could or should be but anyone who expects it to be perfect is living in a dream world.) Sometimes he states his opinions in a way that is perhaps a bit more frank than one would expect, and comes off as harsh - but you always know what he thinks, and that is a good thing. I have never read a review of his where he has totally slammed a ship nor one that has sounded like an advertisement - and again, that is a good thing. (Anyone who has nothing positive or nothing negative about a ship is probably not to be trusted. The number of ships that are even close to perfectly bad or perfectly good is very small.)
But as time goes on, my opinion of Mr. Ward has improved - not least because from time to time it is my job to write ship reviews and reviewing the number of ships he does is simply a mind-boggling task to me.
And who attack him for his opinions are just silly. It is a guidebook, he is a critic - what do you expect to find inside? It is preposterous to expect him not to have opinions and not to be biased. Some have slammed him for preferring small ships to large ships - so what? It's his book, if he likes small ships better than large ships he should go ahead and say so! I happen to agree with him, I prefer small ships and if someone had me write a book about cruising I wouldn't be shy about saying it.
So yes, he has opinions and agree or disagree with them he is certainly as qualified to have opinions about cruises as anyone else in the world and probably more so. And those who accuse him of kissing up to the cruise lines are so far off base I cannot help if they are talking about the same Douglas Ward - I have never read a review of his, of any ship, that sounds like he is kissing up to the cruise line. Yes, he has reviewed a few ships extremely positively but he always points out the drawbacks and most of his reviews if anything come off as accentuating the negative. For the most part if anything his reviews could be criticized as being too harsh - but again, he knows what he is doing, he has high standards, and he never totally slams a ship either. For better or for worse on most of the ships I have sailed I have found he is fairly close to the mark - and he is not just a fan of "luxury" ships either, for example his review of MARCO POLO when she was with Orient Lines was very positive and almost identical in opinion if not tone to the one I wrote for a major web site.
I have not had the chance to meet him for more than a few moments but he certainly did not seem like the monster he is made out to be, always by people who have never met the man. And as for his book, while it is not perfect and it is not written the way I would write such a book if someone asked me to write one (and as greybeard pointed out, I think most of us would jump at that chance) he has nevertheless managed to produce this book annually for many years now while many others have failed, and he has gained the respect of people in the industry the way no other critic has.
They are just some examples that leave allot to be desired of Carnival. Until I get my hands back on the 2004 edition which a relative has you will have to wait for more.
Personally I dont see his books as even a guide. He has cheap shots at people and passengers. Bearing in mind he is their to review the ship and singles out the passengers.
quote:Originally posted by dougnewman:This is rich! How does saying they wear jeans translate to them being drunks, yobbos and complete losers?Douglas Ward - I have never read a review of his, of any ship, that sounds like he is kissing up to the cruise line. .
Douglas Ward - I have never read a review of his, of any ship, that sounds like he is kissing up to the cruise line. .
One ship EUROPA! one company Hapag Lloyd!
looks like a bit of but kissing to me!
This being said I'm sure he is a very fine man. I've sailed with him before but never bothered to meet him.
I do agree some of his editing and statistical information leaves something to be desired. If I made my living writing this book, you could be damn sure it would be close to perfect.
Ernie
quote:Originally posted by Sutho:Personally I dont see his books as even a guide. He has cheap shots at people and passengers. Bearing in mind he is their to review the ship and singles out the passengers.
They're not cheap shots, it's the truth for the most part.
Ships have a personality based on the demographic that regularily cruises on them. It's helpful to know these observations. TA's tend to candy-coat any ship to make a sale. Some people may read what Ward wrote and decide that's the crowd for me.
Some people don't like to hear the truth. Let's face it, some cruise lines cater to a more mass-market demographic...maybe not on every sailing, but on average some ships are a draw for certain people groups.
Cruise Lines cater to a certain demographic and then ships of course also have their own personality based on the crew and the passengers. This is an element to cruising and choosing a cruise that many don't know about, so Mr. Ward is providing a service by offering his opinion of the personality of the ships. If you don't like his opinions that's up to you of course, but coming from someone who has been in the industry a long time, I enjoy reading Mr. Ward's books and his analysis, then I of course formulate my own opinion when I cruise on a ship.
Your comments merely expose your ignorance, the quotes you make from his books are not insulting, he is simply comparing what you would find on Carnival to what you might expect elsewhere, by and large pretty accurate if tongue in cheek.
Not every ship is like P&O, try a few others.
quote:Originally posted by mike sa:SuthoYour comments merely expose your ignorance, the quotes you make from his books are not insulting, he is simply comparing what you would find on Carnival to what you might expect elsewhere, by and large pretty accurate if tongue in cheek.Not every ship is like P&O, try a few others.
This has nothing to do with my ignorance. I am fully aware of the type of people Carnival attracts without reading wards input. The original complaint was thats wards remarks are cheap and smutty and he could do better than resorting to low brow cheap shots.
Ward comes across as a pretentions snob. That is the impression I get from his style of writing and it looks like others do to.
It honestly makes me wonder what they do to him on Europa. Perhaps he gets a little bit more adult services onbaord than what they would consider doing to their regular passenger.
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