Carnival in talks with Meyer Werft over new cruiseships
John McLaughlin, Patrick Hagen and Rajesh Joshi - Friday 23 October 2009

quote:

---

Originally posted by Fairsky:
... There really hasn't been a non-Fincantieri Princess ship since the original Star Princess (Fair Majesty) back in 1989...(I'm not counting the 2 Mitsubishi Grand-class ships because their design was basically a Fincanteiri design). I really hope Meyer Werft develops something innovative for Princess.

---

Don't forget CORAL and ISLAND (an entirely non-Fincantieri new design) and to some extend TAHITIAN, although that one was of course not built for Princess at first.

That said, considering the current difficulties of STX France and my nationality, I would have prefered Princess now talking with St Nazaire, rather than with Meyer Werft.

[ 10-24-2009: Message edited by: Vaccaro ]

quote:

---

Originally posted by HomeLines:
Anyone think its possible Princess will take over the building slots for Solstice 4 and Solstice 5? I've heard from a really well placed source at Celebrity that the board of directors didn't approve names for the ships because they no longer want them. Princess could take over the options, change the designs a little and have a couple of new ships in a few years.

---

This I find hard to believe. The Solstice Class is the future of Celebrity and by far the most efficient ships in the fleet. The highest level executives at Celebrity have stated they have no intention of canceling any orders, and that even in this economy they want all the ships. They will make Celebrity that much stronger when the economy improves, which is beginning to happen. RCCL invested a great deal of money and time into the design of the Solstice Class. I don't think they would be too keen to turn it over to a competitor.

Besides, I can only imagine how Princess would butcher what are probably the most stylish ships afloat.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Fairsky:
This could be promising. Princess needs a new design. Meyer Werft produces attractive ships. And CCL needs a builder other than Fincantieri. There really hasn't been a non-Fincantieri Princess ship since the original Star Princess (Fair Majesty) back in 1989...(I'm not counting the 2 Mitsubishi Grand-class ships because their design was basically a Fincanteiri design). I really hope Meyer Werft develops something innovative for Princess.

---

Fairsky,

how or why is an 'innovative' design needed?

The Grand-Class ships and the slight evolutions have worked extremely well for Princess and Alan Bucklew has already stated that any order placed would simply be a slightly larger, evolved Ruby Princess.

And just because they might be built at MW means in no way, shape or form that they would be dramatically different.

MW would simply do what Mitsubishi did and that was to modify the design to ensure that their subcontractors could meet the specs.

By 'innovative' you simply mean a new design for everyone to carp about.

This means whatever they build must work everywhere which means 130K max size.

Likewise the style must remain int'l which some deride as bland though it is not offensive and works everywhere.. No lurid interiors or Johnny Rockets on Princess!!!

quote:

---

Originally posted by reeves35:
No lurid interiors or Johnny Rockets on Princess!!!

Brad

---

No, but plenty of onboard announcements, tacky art auctions, gold by the inch in the lobby, small cabins, and giant TV's by the pool.

Is Princess different than RCI? Yes. Is it somehow better or more classy? I don't think so. Just because furnishings are bland doesn't make them expensive or classy.

Both cruise lines are mass-market but with different styles. Princess per diems are generally lower then Royal Caribbean, especially in the Caribbean.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Fairsky:
[...]
Yes, I want an innovative design from Princess...or at least something new after more than 10 years of Grand-class variants.

---

You put your finger in the wound. I think we have a problem in this forum with the term 'innovative' which is very often used instead of the term 'new'. I wish we had more innovations but not every ship has to be innovative and certainly not every new feature deserves to be called innovative.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tim in 'Lauderdale:
[...]
And just because they might be built at MW means in no way, shape or form that they would be dramatically different. [...]

---

Did someone at Princess (or Carnival) piss in your corn flakes? I have to ask because everytime we talk on this board about Princess you rag on them.

Difference of opinion, but RCI is not even close to Princess in service or quality.

The Grand/Crown Class has service Princess just as well as the Voyager / Freedom Class has service RCI.

Ernie, you may not agree, but Princess offers an upper middle class adult resort experience that isn't as stuffy as Celebrity and isn't as cheap has the RCI experience has become.

quote:

---

Originally posted by sunviking82:
...Princess offers an upper middle class adult resort experience that isn't as stuffy as Celebrity and isn't as cheap has the RCI experience has become! ...

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by sunviking82:
Ernie,

Did someone at Princess (or Carnival) piss in your corn flakes? I have to ask because everytime we talk on this board about Princess you rag on them.

Difference of opinion, but RCI is not even close to Princess in service or quality.

The Grand/Crown Class has service Princess just as well as the Voyager / Freedom Class has service RCI.

Ernie, you may not agree, but Princess offers an upper middle class adult resort experience that isn't as stuffy as Celebrity and isn't as cheap has the RCI experience has become.

Now let's talk about the positives and focus on a new class of ship for Princess, hopefully keeping the Grand Class tradition alive with some more adult features!

---

Remember everything is subjective as you have stated. I think Princess is a great line. While I have never sailed on them, when I was a travel agent I had clients go do so and the general consensus from the diehard Princess fans was that their service levels slipped and many did not consider them a premium line. Infact, a Cruise Trade (travel agent magazine) article from a year ago or so had a great graph that mapped out what line was standard, premium, deluxe and luxury. Princess was lumped in the standard column with Carnival, RCI, NCL while Disney was premium! I was a bit surprised with that but I must say from experience Disney does have a product that is superior to the standard lines I have sailed.

Been on 26 cruises and personally from a decor standpoint I would go with RCI, Celebrity, Cunard/QM2, Disney....maybe even NCL (some ships). My only experience with Princess was a travel agent tour of the Grand and Crown. I liked the Crown better but both had interiors reminiscent of the Golden Girls set, certainly not cutting ege. Nevertheless, I would definately jump at the chance to sail Princess and experience them first hand! And clearly Princess has a strong base. Speaking soley from an asthetic point of view I like certain lines over others but everything is up for interpretation! I look forward to any Princess newbuilds, maybe they will style them more like P &O's Ventura, while I am not an enormous fan of her interiors I have to say she seems a bit more hip!

[ 10-26-2009: Message edited by: nycruiser ]

I would share the view of others here, that Princess is a good solid product which generally get everything right. And overall it feels older, slightly duller and very marginally higher quality than RCI. But, as a shiplover, I much prefer RCI's ships - where new designs are more frequent - its not a financial point of view, just a shippie one!

Like others, I'd prefer to see Princess order with STX France, there must be a real risk to that yard next year after NCL Epic is delivered, unless I've forgotten something they have no major pax ship orders after her.

Many Meyer ships, even for different brands, have features in common, and I hope some of that might rub off on Princess orders if forthcoming. Think for instance of the 'glass wall' on Radiance, and the double version surrounding the theatrium on the Diva's.

quote:

---

Originally posted by sunviking82:
[QB]Ernie,

Did someone at Princess (or Carnival) piss in your corn flakes? I have to ask because everytime we talk on this board about Princess you rag on them.

Difference of opinion, but RCI is not even close to Princess in service or quality.

[QB]

---

That is your opinion which is fine. I have sailed on Princess and RCI numerous times and I find very little difference in service or quality. Both are mass-market products.

I just find it humorous when people seem to think that Princess is somehow "premium" or superior to RCI. Just because they have bland, traditional interiors does not make them extra classy or premium. When they start to offer larger cabins, better space ratios, and a better passenger to crew ratio, then we can talk about a more premium product. For now they don't, and in fact I would say their standard cabin size is below average, and space ratios and crew/passenger ratios right in line with a typical mass-market product such as Carnival, NCL, and Royal Caribbean.

I think Princess is an excellent, consistent cruise line and I have sailed on them more than any other cruise line. This being said, I recall the days when Princess truly was premium, and offered ships and service that were a step beyond the competition. I used to love the Italian dining staff which presented table side food preparation almost every night, and the British officers, bar staff, and cabin staff. Princess has changed a lot since those days, just like most cruise lines.

Now I just see Princess as mass-market, which is what they are. I was just setting the record straight. I certainly don't have a grudge against Carnival or Princess and will continue to sail on these lines, but when someone makes a statement that I perceive as being false, I will reply.

I see your point, we just have different views on this topic. I am glad to see that you are open minded about CCL and RCI. We will agree to disagree as RCI isn't the line they where 15 years ago, but neither is Princess. Still I like the Princess experience much more then the RCI one. I am hopeful that Celebrities can return to her high standards onboard the Solstice class (which I have heard she has).

Princess is still my personal favoriate and I believe offers better value and good innovation for my money.

I hope that the new design can expand on what is already a good product without the gimics. I would like to see the 5 pools, two with covers, a third speciality resturant (french or asian style) and additional theatre, a comidy club perhaps.

Int'l Cafe and Vines have been a great additiion and love that Skywalkers is open for drinks in the early evening before dinner. Just so long as the food and the service continue to be good, I will continue to pick Princess as my primary cruiseline, with Celebrity as a close second.