usually i'm not very fond of lists
however the discussion following the delivery of Azura made me think of just that

if i read carefully P & O has lost some of it's
status and glamour by really turning into a
mass market product under the flag of
Carnival Corp.
how to rate them in international perspective?

here is just a try..

de luxe ***** stars
Seabourn (1)
Silversea (2)
Hapag Lloyd (3)
Regent (4)
Ponant Cruises (5)

premium **** stars
Crystal (6)
Cunard (7)
Oceania (8) ?
Celebrity (9)
H A L (10)

mass / ordinary / other: *** stars
Fred Olsen (11)
Princess (12)
Saga (13)
P & O (14)
Royal Caribbean (15)
M S C (16)
Aida (17)
N C L (18)
Carnival (19)
Costa (20)

budget ** stars
Phoenix Reisen (21)
Pullmantur (22)
Thomson (23)
Louis (24)
Iberocruzeros (25)
Happy Cruises (26)

(sorry i have not included P &O Australia, Star and some other minor companies..)

i really don't know where to situate C M V
perhaps a low 3 star ranking due to her older ships

note: this is very arbituary list, one can never
compare peaches and apples, how to see
for instance Grandeur of the seas to Oasis
but it's just a general opinion..

what do you think?

best regards
Joe

[ 03-31-2010: Message edited by: buddhaJoe ]

[ 03-31-2010: Message edited by: buddhaJoe ]

I don't see them fitted in as "mass market or ordinary".

From my experience, your "buget two stars" should be at least Three stars : My Oceanic cruise was fantastic.

But it is ofcourse all very subjective.

BTW, what do you mean by C M V ?

Based on my last two cruises, HAL does not rank that far ahead of HAL, it may be that HAL is slipping, of course it could also be that Princess is improving.

There should be a category between 'de luxe' and 'premium'. Even with Crystal being higher in the ranking, they certainly do not deserve to be in the same category with the other lines mentioned in this category (e.g. Celebrity, HAL and maybe even Cunard should actually be in very upper end of 'mainstream').

[ 03-31-2010: Message edited by: Ernst ]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Johan:
An interesting list.
I should make however, a subcategory between the premium and the massmarket for HAL - Fred.Olsen - Saga.

I don't see them fitted in as "mass market or ordinary".

From my experience, your "buget two stars" should be at least Three stars : My Oceanic cruise was fantastic.

But it is ofcourse all very subjective.

BTW, what do you mean by C M V ?

J

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by mike sa:
However Britannia Class would rate only mass market on par with others - just you have to dress up more!

---

quote:

---

budget ** stars
Phoenix Reisen (21)

---

This has to be an April fool's joke.

Phoenix Reisen's "Amadea" is rated as a four-star-plus vessel by Douglas Ward. And knowing her personally, I can assure you that she is far better than the two-star "budget" product claimed by you.

Best,

Luxury
Seabourn
SeaDream
Silversea

Deluxe
Crystal
Cunard (Grills)
Regent

Upper Premium
Azamara Club
Oceania
Windstar

Premium
Cunard (Britannia)
Celebrity
Disney
HAL
Saga

Upper Standard
Fred. Olsen
P&O (UK)
Princess
Royal Caribbean

Standard
Carnival
Costa
MSC
NCL
P&O (Australia)

Budget
Louis
Thomson

I've excluded smaller "niche" brands or ones with limited/no English-speaking market presence because they're just too hard to place.

quote:

---

Originally posted by dougnewman:
I'd go for something like this:

Luxury
Seabourn
SeaDream
Silversea

Deluxe
Crystal
Cunard (Grills)
Regent

Upper Premium
Azamara Club
Oceania
Windstar

Premium
Cunard (Britannia)
Celebrity
Disney
HAL
Saga

Upper Standard
Fred. Olsen
P&O (UK)
Princess
Royal Caribbean

Standard
Carnival
Costa
MSC
NCL
P&O (Australia)

Budget
Louis
Thomson

I've excluded smaller "niche" brands or ones with limited/no English-speaking market presence because they're just too hard to place.

Obviously this is all purely subjective and it is based on how I think brands are perceived by the market, not actual quality.

---

Interesting Doug.

I just made a post about Regent and I see you put them below Silversea and Seabourn in a Deluxe category. I'm curious as to why.

Personally I would put P&O Australia into Budget (based upon the old ships and party atmosphere). I think some of P&O's (UK) ships belong in Upper Standard and some in Standard, but this can go for other brands as well.

Overall I am in agreement with your categorizations. Interesting that there are seven different categories. Who says there are not choices in the cruise industry! Not too long ago it was basically Luxury, Premium, Mass Market, and Budget.

Ultra-Deluxe, 6-Star+
Regent (Best Cruise Value, Ultra-Deluxe, 6-Star+)
Seabourn
Silversea

Ultra-Deluxe, 6-Star
Crystal (Best Cruise Value, Ultra-Deluxe, 6-Star)

High Deluxe, 5-Star+
HAL (Best Cruise Value, High Deluxe, 5-Star+ and Best Cruise Value Overall)
Oceania

High Deluxe, 5-Star+ (Small Ships)
Peter Deilmann (Deutschland)
SeaDream
Windstar (Best Cruise Value, High Deluxe, 5-Star+ [Small Ships])

Deluxe, 5-Star
Azamara
Celebrity (Best Cruise Value, Deluxe, 5-Star)
Cunard
Disney
Princess

High Superior, 4-Star+
Carnival (Best Cruise Value, High Superior, 4-Star+ and Best Cruise Value, Short Cruises)

Superior, 4-Star
Costa
Royal Caribbean (Best Cruise Value, Superior, 4-Star)

Standard, 4-Star
MSC
NCL (Best Cruise Value, Standard, 4-Star)

Specialty Cruises
American Cruise Lines
Cruise West
Fred. Olsen
Hurtigruten
Star Clippers
Viking River Cruises
Voyages of Discovery (Best Cruise Value, Specialty Cruises)

[ 04-09-2010: Message edited by: dougnewman ]

quote:

---

Originally posted by dougnewman:
Another point of view on this would be the "classifications" published by Ocean & Cruise News in December 2009:

---

These are way off IMO.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Linerrich:
Does anyone remember when Premier upped the ante and ranked themselves 7 Stars? LOL!

Rich

---

Absolutely! Getting that robe in your cabin made them 7-stars! LOL.

quote:

---

Originally posted by eroller:
I just made a post about Regent and I see you put them below Silversea and Seabourn in a Deluxe category. I'm curious as to why.

---

If you look at Regent's marketing it really seems to be aimed at convincing people that its inclusiveness (it touts itself as "the most inclusive") makes it a better deal than Celebrity, HAL or Princess. (These are actually direct comparisons made in Regent's own marketing materials.) There's a lot of "free, 2 for 1, all inclusive" and so on. To me it comes across as selling quantity ("you get more for your money") than quality ("this is the most luxurious cruise you can buy").

It also has bigger ships, more "stratification" (butler service in some suites only, a "tiered" past passenger program), actively markets to families (I disagree that that should be a marker of less "luxury" but rightly or wrongly, it's perceived that way by many) and generally I think a lot of people just don't perceive it as being as desirable as Seabourn or Silversea or even Crystal.

Note, I'm not talking about quality, that is a comparison I can't make, but how these cruise lines are perceived by the market, or even how they sell themselves (and thus would presumably like to be seen).

quote:

---

Originally posted by eroller:
Personally I would put P&O Australia into Budget (based upon the old ships and party atmosphere).

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by eroller:
Not too long ago it was basically Luxury, Premium, Mass Market, and Budget.

---

Naming them is a challenge too. I hate the euphemism "contemporary" for "standard" or (less kindly) "mass market." Putting "deluxe" below "luxury" sounds silly (aren't they the same?) but this seems to be common usage now. Maybe I should just do a scale from 0 to 6 with budget on one end and luxury on the other!

quote:

---

Originally posted by eroller:
These are way off IMO.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Linerrich:
Does anyone remember when Premier upped the ante and ranked themselves 7 Stars?

---