Fain offered few details on the number, size or design of the new ships. Cruise Week, another industry publication, quoted the Royal Caribbean bigwig as saying “It will probably be the start of a new a series, which would incorporate our latest learnings about efficiency and about guest amenities.”

“We’ve been working intensively on developing a design that reflects our innovative spirit but in an efficient package and we think we are near an acceptable outcome,” Fain added.

Also, what Oasis-class features will be incorporated? We can count on a Royal Promenade, but what about a smaller Central Park or Boardwalk? I would count on the Boardwalk on a smaller than Oasis ship as more likely...a split aft super structure wouldn't be too difficult, whereas an open center would be more difficult on a ship with a more narrow beam. And it would be a major problem for the upper pool deck.

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Originally posted by Malcolm @ cruisepage:
I would guess that RCI are going to build a more traditional ship without all of the Voyager/Freedom and Oasis whistles and bells.

After all, not everybody likes the floating theme-park approach.

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No, not everybody likes that but this is what the RCI brand stands for and it's not necessary to cater to everybody (with one brand) - more the contrary.

I also do not see any reasons why it should be impossible to have features even like 'Central Park' aboard a smaller ship - just because this ship will be smaller than Oasis or Allure does not mean that we talk about a small ship - whether that will indeed be the case is of course another story but I would be surprised if RCI built a ship that is not relating to 'recently' built ships like Oasis and Allure relate to the Voyager/Freedom class.

The real interesting story for now are however the rumors that RCI seems to favor Meyer Werft for the next ships to be ordered. Are these additional ships to the series that was supposed to be built at STX (in Finland) or do they go to Meyer instead of STX?

P.S.: Another interesting detail that occurred to me only now is that I think 'someone' (I do not remember which entity) owns the 'rights' (a patent?) on the 'split superstructure' design as it has been introduced with Silja Serenade and then repeated on RCI and Color Line vessels - sofar no other yard built a ship with that feature. Could RCI get a ship with that feature built at Meyer (e.g. by paying the entity that has the rights on that design)? If I remember correctly that someone has 'rights' on that design - who is that (now)?

[ 01-31-2011: Message edited by: Ernst ]

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Originally posted by Frosty 4:
Princess will also have a new ship for 2013. Not sure what size?? Heard this at a cruise expo over the weekend.
F4

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Princess have two 141,000gt 3,600 pax sisters on order from Fincantieri. ROYAL PRINCESS will be delivered in 2013 and REGAL PRINCESS in 2014.

Should RCI go back to it's earlier roots and be more upscale and classy without all the Flowriders, Rock Walls, and other Amusement Park 'bells and whistles' that tend to attract families with hoards of kids. 

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Originally posted by dmwnc1:
Central Park on OASIS is only made possible due to her extreme beam. Only if you got rid of her interior facing balcony cabins could something similar be workable on a smaller ship. [....]

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There are actually significantly smaller ships with a very similar feature: The promenade aboard Silja Serenande and Silja Symphony (see also this short video) reach 'all the way up' and even have large skylights (video of the skylights). So it is entirely possible to have a similar feature on a smaller ship. Whether it makes sense to 'copy' all aspects of e.g. Central Park on these ships is a different story - e.g. depending on the itinerary a closed version might be more appropriate - but it is possible.

[ 02-01-2011: Message edited by: Ernst ]

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Originally posted by dmwnc1:
I would like to see a ship more along the size of the Radiance-class... But isn't that what Celebrity is suppose to be, an upscale version without the Amusement Park theme?

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I think there is a market for an RCI product without all of the 'whistles and bells' of Voyager/Freedom and Oasis classes, yet not charging the 'premium' fares of Celebrity.

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Originally posted by Ernst:

I also do not see any reasons why it should be impossible to have features even like 'Central Park' aboard a smaller ship...

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Originally posted by Malcolm @ cruisepage:

I think there is a market for an RCI product without all of the 'whistles and bells' of Voyager/Freedom and Oasis classes, yet not charging the 'premium' fares of Celebrity.

The 'Radiance' class definately has fans who may not like the bigger RCI ships so much.

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There indeed seem to be a lot of people who like the Radiance class but RCI has already four of these AND there are the more conventional 'Vision Class' vessels too (not to talk about the 'Sovereign Class').
I think it would be smart to continue along the line of Voyager/Freedom/Oasis and leave the rest to Celebrity.

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Originally posted by Malcolm @ cruisepage:

I agree. However I don't think the new ship will have a 'park'.

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[ 02-01-2011: Message edited by: Malcolm @ cruisepage ]

Of the three in the US, one is out of Baltimore (alternating Canada, Bermuda, and Caribbean 5-12 night cruises), one in San Juan (r/t 7-nights Southern Caribbean), and the other in Tampa, FL (4- and 5-night Mexico cruises). I would like to see RCI have a Radiance-sized ship out of FLL doing 10-14 night Deep Caribbean like Princess and Holland-Amierca offer to be able to enjoy a much longer cruise on a mid-size ship and get deeper into the Caribbean without having to fly to San Juan.

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Originally posted by Ernst:
There indeed seem to be a lot of people who like the Radiance class but RCI has already four of these AND there are the more conventional 'Vision Class' vessels too (not to talk about the 'Sovereign Class'). I think it would be smart to continue along the line of Voyager/Freedom/Oasis and leave the rest to Celebrity.

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Originally posted by Malcolm @ cruisepage:
I think there is a market for an RCI product without all of the 'whistles and bells' of Voyager/Freedom and Oasis classes, yet not charging the 'premium' fares of Celebrity.

The 'Radiance' class definately has fans who may not like the bigger RCI ships so much.

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Originally posted by dmwnc1:

I couldnt agree more! I wonder how many people left RCI for Celebrity (or other non RCCL brands) because they didnt like the 150,000-ton Royal Promenade flaunting behemoths the RCI found themselves pumping out of the shipyards and then demographically trapped in to? [....]

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And where is the problem for RCI? Actually, I do not see a disadvantage for them if they 'move' more passengers to Celebrity (where these people pay higher fares) and get at the same time more passengers at RCI who like these larger ships. That's why it makes sense to have several brands. There is indeed a market for ships like the Radiance class - but don't you think it makes more sense for RCI to serve that market with Celebrity?

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Originally posted by dmwnc1:
I think the 'problem' may be that not all who leave RCI are leaving for Celebrity. [...] If it weren't for the Enchantment of the Seas out of Baltimore I would probably fly to FLL and cruise HAL

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The question is: Are they really loosing passengers? It's of course not possible to please everyone - as long as the overall number of passengers (and the amount of money they make) increases it should be fine for them.

Mind you, the Radiance class won't disappear suddenly and even the Vision 'class' ships might stay in the RCI fleet for a while. It's just that I think that it would be wise to add more ships like that to the RCI fleet (more the contrary) - and this indeed does not seem to be the case (giving the size of the ships to be ordered).

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Originally posted by PamM:
Just because the proposed vessels are to be smaller than Oasis/Allure gt wise, what is there to stop the beam being the same? ie a shorter, not as tall, but just as wide vessel.

Pam

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Pam, actually you are on to something there. I just spent some time on the Allure and that was exactly what was said. The new builds would be smaller but one thing RCI liked about the Oasis class was her width and what they could do with it.

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Originally posted by dmwnc1:

I couldnt agree more! I wonder how many people left RCI for Celebrity (or other non RCCL brands) because they didnt like the 150,000-ton Royal Promenade flaunting behemoths the RCI found themselves pumping out of the shipyards and then demographically trapped in to? Sure they probably got a LOT more passengers than what departed, but how many times can you sail one of those things and get tired of it? Everything from the Voyager-class up is basically the same thing just on steriods. And with the Allure and Oasis now offering cheaper prices, how many times can you sail those two before you want something else? I think a smaller 90-100k ton ship has the potential to bring back some of those disenchanted with the mega-mall ships they have produced in the last decade.

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Originally posted by Frosty 4:
I found the Voyager class(RCL) a bit too big for me. Yet there are 2 classes that RCL has that are bigger. Not sure I would try them??
The Solstice class (Celebrity) is about a large as I care to sail on. Although we will be going on Grand Princess which maybe larger(I need to check the specs.)
With 5 Solstice class ships and the Solstice and Equinox exactly the same I hope Celebrity changes the 2 new ships enough to make me want to sail on them again. I will never do a back to back cruise again.Solstice then Equinox as we did. Same thing.
Frosty 4

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What I love about the Oasis class is the number of options. The entertainment was without a doubt some of the best that I have seen at sea.

I also loved the number of specialty dining restaurants on board. We never ate in the main dinng room once in 14 nights and only once in the Windjammer. RCI does not currently have the amount of dining options on the smaller ships with the exception of the Radiance who is gaining Rita's, Samba's, Izumi and Giovanni's in her upcoming dry dock. I hope that RCI goes back and visits this on the other ships in the fleet.

But if Royal Caribbean isnt losing passengers, and have that many repeat passengers, why is it that they are so in debt but still talking about building another ship?

I just watched Samantha Brown on the Freedom of the Seas and it just reinforced why I have no desire to cruise on that class of ship. Just too big and too many people. I'll stick with the ships less than 90k grt and be happy with not knowing what I am missing. I also want to go on a ship where my bar and specialty restaurant tab isnt the same as my cruise cost. I cant afford to eat in specialty restaurants for more than 1 or 2 nights, much less 9-14 days.

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Originally posted by dmwnc1:
[...]

But if Royal Caribbean isnt losing passengers, and have that many repeat passengers, why is it that they are so in debt but still talking about building another ship? [...]

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Originally posted by dmwnc1:
Well Gordon, it looks as if you have found a home away from home!

But if Royal Caribbean isnt losing passengers, and have that many repeat passengers, why is it that they are so in debt but still talking about building another ship?

I just watched Samantha Brown on the Freedom of the Seas and it just reinforced why I have no desire to cruise on that class of ship. Just too big and too many people. I'll stick with the ships less than 90k grt and be happy with not knowing what I am missing. I also want to go on a ship where my bar and specialty restaurant tab isnt the same as my cruise cost. I cant afford to eat in specialty restaurants for more than 1 or 2 nights, much less 9-14 days.

Given if the Oasis of the Seas and any of HAL's Vista-class were the same price, I would pick the latter. But that's what cruising is about - choices.

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I too don't have the answers to RCCL's financial situation but if you stop and think about it, since 1999 RCCL has placed 14 new ships into service for the RCI brand and 7 into service for Celebrity with two more yet to enter service. Then there are the Azamara ships purchased. I'm sure that has something to do with it. RCCL has built to keep up with the competition. Even with a new build, it won't enter service before 2014 so it is giving them time to pay down some debt which is their plan.

RCI ships go out full each week. Are they going out at the prices that RCI would like? Probably not but neither are most of the other cruise lines. Actually you can usually find HAL and Celebrity cruises for less than you can RCI. That alone tells me that there are many that will pay the price that RCI is asking with me included. I like the product. Oasis and Allure are still demanding strong pricing with both ships now in service and both ships have the highest "percent" of on board spending of any ship in the RCI fleet. I know on the Allure, the specialty dining areas were full each night.