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»	Cruise Talk » Ocean Liners and Classic Cruise Ships » United States Unlikely To Sail Again (Page 2)

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Author

Topic: United States Unlikely To Sail Again

Patsy
First Class Passenger
Member # 5611

posted 04-03-2006 02:13 PM

The general public doesn't no. We ship lovers do otherwise we wouldn't discuss and disagree so much.

Posts: 2023 | From: Hythe, Hants | Registered: Apr 2005 | IP: Logged

J.S.S.Normandie
First Class Passenger
Member # 6253

posted 04-03-2006 02:23 PM

For the people that do know, theyre playing it safe. Scrapping her could cause bad publicity amoung some, and thay don't want to risk that. After all she's an important historic icon.
Scrapping her could mean a a few thousand less people who will sail on their ships. Probably worth more than the fees theyre paying.

Posts: 1197 | From: Massachusetts where the Brittania was trapped! | Registered: Feb 2006 | IP: Logged

Globaliser
First Class Passenger
Member # 4153

posted 04-03-2006 02:43 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Patsy:
Blimey Globaliser. Do I have to list everything ever moaned about them on here? There were a lot of members complaining about them regarding this, that and the other long before I even joined.

The fact that enthusiasts moan about a company doesn't mean that it's done any bad things. And that's why I'd be interested to know what you think are the "bad things" that NCL has done - and, if you can, why you think that they're bad things as opposed to part of possibly good things.

quote:
Originally posted by Patsy:
And if Cunard, RCI or whoever behaved they way NCL have over Norway/US/Indy I'd be just as angry with them. They faff about wasting money when it's clear they won't do anything because they don't want to. So why waste the money? in the first place?

What about if none of them had done a thing to save these ships? What if NCL had just said, no thanks, the SSUS can just rot and sink for all we care. Would you be angry with them for that? Haven't they taken at least one step towards her possible preservation? Why does the company which has actually put some money into possibly saving her deserve so much more opprobrium from you and other enthusiasts than the other companies which have turned their faces away and done absolutely nothing to help?

Would it truly have been better if NCL hadn't bought the ship at all?

quote:
Originally posted by Patsy:
Yes things have changed in the last 2 years. But then they could have done something 2 years ago, couldn't they? She could be up and running by now if that was really their intention.

Actually, if you'd bothered to read Tim's post, you'd see how unrealistic that is. When a feasibility study for a newbuild takes two to three years, why do you expect that a feasibility study for the SSUS should be done in a matter of weeks? How long do you think the work would have taken? Do you think that it would have been sensible for NCL to throw money at her when NCLA (the likely destination of the SSUS) was just starting up, its performance was doubtful and its future was uncertain? In your opinion, should NCL have put the preservation and restoration of the SSUS ahead of all other commercial considerations and made it the company's top priority at that time?

Because that is what, in effect, you are suggesting that NCL should have done. And it is completely unrealistic.

[ 04-03-2006: Message edited by: Globaliser ]

Posts: 1869 | From: UK | Registered: Sep 2003 | IP: Logged

J.S.S.Normandie
First Class Passenger
Member # 6253

posted 04-03-2006 02:50 PM

I'm still undecided on the US, but NCL probably did save the France, she mostlikely would have been scrapped in the eighties.

Posts: 1197 | From: Massachusetts where the Brittania was trapped! | Registered: Feb 2006 | IP: Logged

desirod7
First Class Passenger
Member # 1626

posted 04-03-2006 02:56 PM

Last SSUS Meeting the manager of the SSUS in Philly:

NCL over what the Cantor group was doing:

Repaired/replaced all the mooring lines.

Have security cameras everywhere

Weekly walk throughs throughout the ship

Sumps to drain any water leakage.

about 5 full time caretakers

cost: $2500 a day

She is not rotting like the ships in the Elousis[sp], Greece ship morgue

Posts: 5727 | From: Philadelphia, Pa [home of the SS United States] | Registered: Oct 2000 | IP: Logged

Linerrich
First Class Passenger
Member # 4864

posted 04-03-2006 03:02 PM

quote:
Originally posted by J.S.S.Normandie:
I'm still undecided on the US, but NCL probably did save the France, she mostlikely would have been scrapped in the eighties.

You're right--the French did not know what to do with her and they could not find a serious buyer until Kloster/NCL stepped in. As the NORWAY, literally millions of people got to experience this great ship over a period of 23 years, far longer than she operated as FRANCE.

Rich

Posts: 4210 | From: Miami, FL | Registered: Jul 2004 | IP: Logged

lasuvidaboy
First Class Passenger
Member # 4527

posted 04-03-2006 07:08 PM

I don't think there is a problem w/SSUS complying w/SOLAS 2010. She is an empty hull (except for the original engines) and if ever rebuilt will have a new superstructure.

Posts: 7654 | From: Hollywood Hills/L.A. | Registered: Mar 2004 | IP: Logged

Ernst
First Class Passenger
Member # 5369

posted 04-03-2006 07:41 PM

I guess one would also have to do something with the hull - not only on the inside but also on the outside. (e.g. to comply with modern stability requirements)

Posts: 9746 | From: Eindhoven | Registered: Jan 2005 | IP: Logged

lasuvidaboy
First Class Passenger
Member # 4527

posted 04-03-2006 09:59 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Ernst:
I guess one would also have to do something with the hull - not only on the inside but also on the outside. (e.g. to comply with modern stability requirements)

Maybe a huge ducktail at the stern??

Posts: 7654 | From: Hollywood Hills/L.A. | Registered: Mar 2004 | IP: Logged

Ernst
First Class Passenger
Member # 5369

posted 04-03-2006 10:11 PM

Maybe - maybe not. I do not have any detailed informations and it depends a lot on the specific situation what has to be done or what can be done. I only know that regulations are more strict now than many decades ago - so I guess it would be necessary to do something. (not necessarily a 'ducktail') Concerning the hydrodynamics it is probalby not paying off to change a lot. (I am only guessing)

Posts: 9746 | From: Eindhoven | Registered: Jan 2005 | IP: Logged

gpcruisedude
First Class Passenger
Member # 3533

posted 04-03-2006 10:44 PM

Okay now lets do the math...SS United States costs I believe around $100,000/month to be moored where she is in Philadelphia plus an extra $2500/day for caretakers plus throw in the pumps,all the cameras..I think they sure have something up with all that money being spent on her. U dont just spend that kind of dough to keep good publicity and to please ship lovers no matter how die-hard they are. And then u figure the plans and studies they are conducting on her and 5 caretakers...Now if they had no intention on using her do u think their would be such high security with the cameras and caretakers and all...they could have just towed her someplace cheaper to lay her up and left her! Make sense...I think so...same with the Indy... why on earth would they pay whatever it is they are paying and she has caretakers on her too...makes no sense !!

Posts: 865 | From: Grande Prairie,Alberta | Registered: Dec 2002 | IP: Logged

Neil - Ex P & O & PRINCESS CRUISES
First Class Passenger
Member # 5641

posted 04-04-2006 06:28 PM

Email Neil - Ex P & O & PRINCESS CRUISES

Hi All

It would be nice to think that the United States is returned to service.

Since Star Cruises seems intent on scrapping the ss Norway, if they can find a way to do it , I had planned to cruise on their ship based in Malta this year.

However in view of what has happened about the Norway I have changed my mind and am instead going on the Oceanic.

There is a link on the Australian Maritime Website where you can contact Star Cruises by email.

I did this and said I would not cruise with them and why !

I was supprised to get a reply in which they say that after much deliberation they decided to scrap the Norway.

I would suggest those of you that are not happy with Star Cruises or NCL use the link to email them them and let them know.

Regards,

Neil ( Bob )

[ 04-04-2006: Message edited by: Neil Whitmore ( Bob ) ]

Posts: 2355 | From: Dunstable, Bedfordshire. 30 miles north of London | Registered: May 2005 | IP: Logged

J.S.S.Normandie
First Class Passenger
Member # 6253

posted 04-04-2006 06:32 PM

How sad.
Thank you for not sailing Star Cruises!

Posts: 1197 | From: Massachusetts where the Brittania was trapped! | Registered: Feb 2006 | IP: Logged

Ernst
First Class Passenger
Member # 5369

posted 04-04-2006 06:36 PM

I think it is a bit unfair to blame them of scrapping Norway. It was not only NCL who 'saved' this ship in the 80ies and gave it a second carrer - having her laid up in Bremerhaven for such a long time was not cheap at all, so I beleive that a lot has been tired to keep her around as they could have scrapped her first place.
Also, the costs to keep such a ship 'just for fun' are prohibitive - just think about how difficult it is to keep an oldtimer or how people are struggling to keep old trains operational - all of that is orders of manitude cheaper! We talk about a more than 300 m long ship!
Above all that there are many safety issues which would be difficult to resolve - so I guess we can not blame NCL - a company which just happened to own her for some time.

Posts: 9746 | From: Eindhoven | Registered: Jan 2005 | IP: Logged

Linerdan
First Class Passenger
Member # 4719

posted 04-04-2006 06:51 PM

I agree with Ernst , they did extend her life and gave many a chance to sail a great liner.

It would be like us refusing to sailing the QE2 or QM2 just because Cunard didnt keep Queen Mary and Queen Elizabeth sailing forever.

Posts: 397 | From: Australia.....NSW......Jervis Bay | Registered: May 2004 | IP: Logged

Neil - Ex P & O & PRINCESS CRUISES
First Class Passenger
Member # 5641

posted 04-04-2006 07:40 PM

Hi All

Having worked on the P&O Passenger and Cruise ships for over 30 years plus the original Sun Princess ( Ex Spirit of London ) my interest is in classic ships.

An idea of what can happen to older ships is the Stockholm which dates from about 1948 and was completely rebuilt by the Italians and now sails with Classic International Cruises as the Athena.
I hope to cruise on her this year.

If a ships hull is sound why cant a larger ship also be stripped out and rebuilt plus fitted with new engines and then meet all the new solas regulations.

Even ss Oriana was still afloat in October 2005 with most of her top aluminium superstructure removed which leads one to wonder if the Chinese have plans to re-use the hull dispite the damage in the storm.

The ship was pumped dry before she was towed away from Dalain.

The main part of her hull appeared to be OK, but dirty, as you could still see the remains of the fittings welded on the hull from when she was attached to the pier at Bepu Bay in Japan.

I WOULD SAY IT IS POSSIBLE TO REBUILD A LARGER OLDER PASSENGER SHIP !

NEIL ( BOB )

Posts: 2355 | From: Dunstable, Bedfordshire. 30 miles north of London | Registered: May 2005 | IP: Logged

J.S.S.Normandie
First Class Passenger
Member # 6253

posted 04-04-2006 07:41 PM

I'm talking about Star Cruises buying her and treating her so horribly, and then scrapping her!

Posts: 1197 | From: Massachusetts where the Brittania was trapped! | Registered: Feb 2006 | IP: Logged

Ernst
First Class Passenger
Member # 5369

posted 04-04-2006 07:47 PM

ad Stockholm: The ONLY reason why the Stockholm has been rebuilt were 'tax incentives' (or however this finacial support has been called) given in Italy at this time for rebuilding old ships. (I heard that they got 50% of the costs) Beside that I do not see what the point is of rebuilding a ship in such an extreme way - there is not much of Stockholm left. Also, there were quite some difficulties with her stability.

ad Star: What precisely did Star do? Acutally one could blame quite anyone for not buying and saving her.

Posts: 9746 | From: Eindhoven | Registered: Jan 2005 | IP: Logged

Neil - Ex P & O & PRINCESS CRUISES
First Class Passenger
Member # 5641

posted 04-04-2006 07:58 PM

I do not think it was a case of Star Cruises buying the ss Norway as they own NCL.

I think she was just transfered from one part of the group to another.

In P&O ships were often transfered between the 35 companies that made up the P&O group of shipping companies with P&O as the parent company.

These included passenger ships, cargo ships, tankers, ferries etc.

The P&O group included New Zealand Shipping Company and British India Steam Navigation just to name two of the companies.

How things have changed for P&O !

Neil ( Bob )

Posts: 2355 | From: Dunstable, Bedfordshire. 30 miles north of London | Registered: May 2005 | IP: Logged

Linerdan
First Class Passenger
Member # 4719

posted 04-04-2006 08:02 PM

quote:
Originally posted by J.S.S.Normandie:
I'm talking about Star Cruises buying her and treating her so horribly, and then scrapping her!

With no dis-respect to your post , i had to giggle at the thought.I could just see a Star Cruises staff member going out to the Norway each day and whipping and bashing her to make her suffer

Posts: 397 | From: Australia.....NSW......Jervis Bay | Registered: May 2004 | IP: Logged

J.S.S.Normandie
First Class Passenger
Member # 6253

posted 04-04-2006 08:03 PM

Ernst, it's mainly the way they've treated her that bothers me. The way they hastily painted over her name and stenciled on a new one, (if that article was true) the way they ripped out (carelessly) her inrteriors, burning what they didn't want.
Star cruises has treated her horribly and that's what makes me mad.

Posts: 1197 | From: Massachusetts where the Brittania was trapped! | Registered: Feb 2006 | IP: Logged

Ernst
First Class Passenger
Member # 5369

posted 04-04-2006 08:08 PM

Beside that I am not sure whether it was Star who renamed her (and that this is the least I care about) and what they really did to the stuff removed from the ship I may ask: What should they have done? (...beside rebuilding to her original condition...)

Posts: 9746 | From: Eindhoven | Registered: Jan 2005 | IP: Logged

J.S.S.Normandie
First Class Passenger
Member # 6253

posted 04-04-2006 08:50 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Linerdan:

With no dis-respect to your post , i had to giggle at the thought.I could just see a Star Cruises staff member going out to the Norway each day and whipping and bashing her to make her suffer

Actually, that is a funny thought.

Ernst, if what you are saying is that what else, beside what they did, should Star have done with her interior, the answer is carefully remove the origional parts. i.e. Dining room ect..

Posts: 1197 | From: Massachusetts where the Brittania was trapped! | Registered: Feb 2006 | IP: Logged

Ernst
First Class Passenger
Member # 5369

posted 04-04-2006 08:55 PM

I do not know what has been done - certainly a lot in Bremerhaven.
I guess if it was worth something they did not throw it away. As sad as itmight be, but if one has to get rid of a ship this means that stuff is thrown away.

Posts: 9746 | From: Eindhoven | Registered: Jan 2005 | IP: Logged

desirod7
First Class Passenger
Member # 1626

posted 04-04-2006 10:11 PM

Every major shipyard bid on re-engining SSNorway before and after the boiler explosion. Her 3 remaining boilers are shot too, not to mention the asbestos powder and bent bulkheads. It is the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina below A deck.

NCL could never recoup the costs with SOLAS 2010 around the corner which would have decimated her, on top of worn out MEP/HVAC systems.

Rebuilding the SSUS and re-engining the SSNorway are odious tasks with plenty to go wrong resulting in civil and criminal liability that a recent build would not have.

quote:
Originally posted by J.S.S.Normandie:
I'm talking about Star Cruises buying her and treating her so horribly, and then scrapping her!

Posts: 5727 | From: Philadelphia, Pa [home of the SS United States] | Registered: Oct 2000 | IP: Logged

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