There is a big difference between those that die when a ship sinks, what ever the cause, and those that make money out of using cheap labour and not providing the workers with protective clothing so they die as a result of working with asbestos when scrapping old ships.

This is what has been happening in Alang when ships are dismantled.

Until people make a stand it will continue.

My views, on the treatment of these workers, are nothing to do with the number of times I have travelled round the world !

If you wish to stop ship breaking at Alang then before depriving the workers of any income find them alternative employment. The figures banded about re deaths, as I have said before, are fewer than in the construction industry in the first world. Work at Alang is far from ideal, but without it those workers would be far worse off. Instead of reading the 'stop Alang' websites, read those website where the local people are moaning about the lack of work over the past 2 years and the hardship it has caused.

If you look at the pictures of the places these workers have to live in and also children being used in the industry you will see just why it should be stopped and the whole system in Alang cleaned up.

With the curruption in India I doubt if it will happen.

However I do not think it is a good idea to support this type of business which your remarks give the impression you do !

Can you tell me why people living in the area of Alang are supporting a petiton to the Indian Supreme Court to stop the ex ss Norway being broken up there.

The reason they are doing it is not to loose work but to stop them and their families dying from the results of the asbestos on the ship which should have been removed before the ship arrived at Alang.

Neil ( Bob )

[ 05-20-2007: Message edited by: Neil Whitmore ( Bob ) ]

The workforce are almost all migrant workers from further afield poorer areas and low caste. The locals provide the ancillary services. Any photos can show what one wishes. I am not denying the conditons are bad, of course they are, but you cannot just stamp a foot and say stop, that creates a worse situation.

Lastly, if your 'round the world jaunts have nothing to do with the people and conditions in Alang, then STOP BRINGING IT UP.

If you saw someone who needed help would you not help them just becuase somewhere else in the world there are other people who are far worse off and there for they deserve the help more?

No one is trying to justify anything; especially when it comes to the situation in Alang. The conditions are deplorable, and it is a shame that some people are dealt such a crappy hand simply because they happened to have been born in a certain place. The issue (to me anyway) is Bob's silly notion that his refusing to buy something from the ship will somehow slap the wrists of the people who are paying these poor people to scrap her. The ship is innocent,...

quote:

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Originally posted by Cunard Fan:
If you saw someone who needed help would you not help them just becuase somewhere else in the world there are other people who are far worse off and there for they deserve the help more?

No offence to anyone here , I respect you all but it sounds to me like some people here are trying to justify what happens at Alang and other yards.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Cunard Fan:
...they would be able to afford heath care. Things that we in the first world take for granted. Things we hardly ever even think about.

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It is very different however when we export our "trash" to 3rd world countries where there is no health care and no unions and people are so desperate to eat they will do anything and tak eany risk - we normally export these problems because to do it in our own countries it would be to expensive thus we export it.

Of course we all have sympathy with the coal miners in the US horribily afflicted with a dreadful condition, however in the case of Alang it is us in the West that sends our unwanted ships there only becuase it is cheaper than doing it safely ourselves, unless we insist on higher standards etc in Alang (and similar) then it will continue.

Frankly there should be an international treaty that governs disposal of ships, if they have traded mainly in the Euro zone or US zone then it should be law that they are decommissioned there, likewise for Africa or Far East etc. Of course then all of us must understand that our fares will go up slightly to allow for corporations to do this.

Norway should be broken up, she is past the end of her life, she should NOT have been sent to Alang for this it should have been done in the US as that is where she made her money and traded and in effect was owned by a US corporation.

quote:

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Originally posted by mike sa:
Shame on you NCL (actually MSC also re Monte) it is a direct result of your total disrespect for Humans and the environment that these people are suffering as you attempt to simply get rid of problem rather than try and solve it properly.

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I do not disagree with you, but this is a very complex issue.

It's not just the big companies that are to blame. Any of us who buy goods or services from the third-world are taking part of the exploiting third world labour. Where’s the T-shirt of Training shoes that you are wearing made? How much was the worker paid? The hours and working conditions good? (I doubt it).

It could be argued that just taking a cruise exploits third world labour.

You do get people on here that may not know who the posters are and what experience they have of life at sea.

Sorry if it upsets you when when I mention it but had you travelled as much as me you might be as proud of it as I am !

Neil ( Bob )

Being 100% British I have standards and keep to them !

Neil ( Bob )

[ 05-24-2007: Message edited by: Neil Whitmore ( Bob ) ]

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Originally posted by Neil Whitmore ( Bob ):
[...]

Sorry if it upsets you when when I mention it but had you travelled as much as me you might be as proud of it as I am !

Neil ( Bob )

Working At Sea with the P&O from 1951 to 1986 !

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Neil,

Working for a company for such a long time is indeed something to be proud of and it is the fact that there are many members here at CT who have an impressive career in the shipping industry which makes this forum so interesting. But please be aware that you are heftily self-depreciating your achievement by mentioning this again and again - especially when you do this without any relation to the discussed topic.

Greetings

quote:

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Originally posted by Neil Whitmore ( Bob ):
Being 100% British I have standards and keep to them !

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But you did not join P&O until after India had become a Republic. Should British Rule have continued? are you saying standards have declined because it didn't? Balderdash... they may well have been better off without British Rule at all, we will never know, but your standards or 'British' Standards, whatever they may be, are not those looked to by the rest of the World. Everyone has their own, and it is not up to anyone to tell anyone else what their's should be.

Its nice to see that you add to the comments about my time at sea to which I take exception !

However I notice that you do not mention when I have had to correct you when you make mistakes and have quoted me in-correctly as it is obvious that English is not your first language

WHY CHANGE THE TOPIC !

I do not like the conditions that workers in Alang have to work under.

This is a case of the owners of the companies involved in ship breaking being more interested in making a profit from the demolition of ships than being concerned in the health, safety and welfare of the staff working for them.

People that buy items from these ship breakers, that are not re- cyclable such as ships fittings and furnishings , are also to blame for the conditions of the ship yard workers as if there was no market for the items then the labour force for dismantling the ships would be reduced.

Nearly every part of those vessels is recycled in some form, the bits and pieces that get sold to collectors are a tiny tiny % of the overall sales and by not purchasing them is no loss to the breakers, they will just get sold to local establishments instead. All those toilet fitting, chairs, pictures, every part furnish the homes of those in India and will continue to do so regardless of whether any 'western' enthusiast wishes to have a momento of times past.

Everything is recyclable, right down to the scrap of paper found behind a bed. You should be thankful it is, as in this country it would be sent to landfill.

There are on this forum about five people that have a go at me nearly every time I post on here.

This is now starting to annoy me as I write on about seven classic shipping forums plus publish CD's and Videos through my company.

I speak the truth in a very blunt English manner which no doubt with not everybody having Engish as their first language can lead to problems.

Rest assured if anyone annoys me - I Bite !

You have forgotten to mention the oil and other items out of the tanks on the ships being broken up on the beaches at Alang which cause pollution.

Could you see that being allowed in UK.

This is why I class it as cheap sweat labour being used to break up ships in Alang and will not buy anything from there as all the pollution regulations are ignored.

Admitted in India there is not many regulations but what there is is ignored !