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» Cruise Talk   » Ocean Liners and Classic Cruise Ships   » Pompous Dream or Realistic Vision?

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Author Topic: Pompous Dream or Realistic Vision?
fluctuant nec mergitur
First Class Passenger
Member # 577

posted 06-02-1999 02:06 PM      Profile for fluctuant nec mergitur   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 


About The American Flagship:

The key is space. Space for larger accommodations, ...for more and larger facilities, ...for extensive programming in education, wellness, business, and entertainment. The city-ship will feature three hotel towers, a "downtown" of streets and boulevards lined with shops, restaurants, bars, bistros and cafes, entertainment facilities including a 2,000-seat theater, and an entire 100,000 sq. ft. conference world for the meeting market. A university, a health and wellness center, a world-class spa, even a TV production and broadcast center -- these and much, much more.

In the stern of the ship massive doors will open to reveal an internal marina, home port to four 400-passenger high-speed daycruisers that will ferry guests to and from the ship even while she is underway and serve even the smallest ports and coastal destinations.

Sailing from Maine to Virginia for half of each year and along the Southeast and Gulf coasts from its Port Canaveral home port in the Winter months, America World City will perform coastwise voyages which are exclusively reserved by law to U.S. built, American flag ships.

Years in detailed development, fully designed, U.S. Coast Guard approved, contract ready, benefiting from the participation by a National Collaborative of some of America's leading corporations, final government approval is being sought for a construction loan guarantee for the billion dollar ship under an existing federal program for this purpose. Target for construction contract: early 1997. Target for delivery and start of operations: late 2000.

In addition, the construction and outfitting requirements of the city-ship will require components for the following onboard facilities:

thirteen restaurants
30 bars, bistros, and cafes
major fully-equipped wellness and medical facility
world-class spa
30,000 sq. ft. of retail space
100,000 sq. ft. of meeting, conference, and exhibition space with latest audio-visual features
house of worship
television production and broadcast center
complex of educational studios (music, art, crafts, photography, etc.)
2,000-seat main theater and other entertainment sites and facilities
major library
a high-tech "Spectacusphere" exhibit area with hands-on interactive displays of emerging technologies and products
a "Planetarium" featuring the wonders of earth and space
an array of sports facilities and programs ("Tennis-at-sea, anyone?")
interactive communication and information links in all guestrooms.
In short, a highly diverse, fully equipped and "wired" prototype community.


Posts: 42 | Registered: May 99
fluctuant nec mergitur
First Class Passenger
Member # 577

posted 06-02-1999 03:07 PM      Profile for fluctuant nec mergitur   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I would like to hear any thoughts or impressions concerning this mammoth project.
Thank you

fluctuant nec mergitur


Posts: 42 | Registered: May 99
Joe at PwC
First Class Passenger
Member # 225

posted 06-02-1999 03:25 PM      Profile for Joe at PwC   Email Joe at PwC   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
As I said before, three high-rise apartment buildings atop a barge.

Clearly, this vessel is not intended for cruising, but as an alternative means of LIVING, although I for one would probably not want to live on this ship.


Posts: 385 | Registered: A Long Time Ago!
Joe at PwC
First Class Passenger
Member # 225

posted 06-02-1999 03:29 PM      Profile for Joe at PwC   Email Joe at PwC   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
By the way, is it the intent of the builders to refer to it ("it" doesn't deserve to be called a "her") as the American Flagship? What a shame that the legacy of the mighty SS United States should be lavished upon such a frightening monstrosity.
Posts: 385 | Registered: A Long Time Ago!
Vaccaro
First Class Passenger
Member # 465

posted 06-02-1999 04:15 PM      Profile for Vaccaro   Author's Homepage   Email Vaccaro   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Hello,(bonsoir Nec...)
Well, we have to live with our time and with the future as we're able to imagine it. Alone, without comparison, this project is fantastic and extraordinary and it looks like a paradise. But this boat (wich pictures are available since a long time) looks like a town with amenities, facilities and layout like a modern town and i don't think it's the good way to imitate a town (or a holydays town) at see.
If i compare with actual or past ships, i'm not sure to like the philosofy and so the purpose of such a ship. A ship must remain a ship! (but what is a ship?...and what will be a ship?) But only stupid peoples never change their opinion and i'm ready to try when "this thing" will be built.
Bye.

Posts: 1193 | From: France ...where the greatest liners ever are born, ...by far! | Registered: Feb 99
Joe at PwC
First Class Passenger
Member # 225

posted 06-02-1999 05:41 PM      Profile for Joe at PwC   Email Joe at PwC   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Possibly anyone else might take that as an insult, but I think I understand what you're getting at, Vaccaro. I suppose I should explain myself a bit more clearly.

I consider myself largely open-minded, although when it comes to ships, I have a preference for a certain style of design. It's not to say that this vessel cannot fulfill its own purpose. Clearly, as I said, its builders are probably not thinking about the ship as a cruise ship or liner, but rather as a new way of living. I never thought of liners and cruise ships in terms of living space for the long term. I suppose I could be persuaded to change my thinking on the subject, however, I should require a sound reason as to why. Granted, there have been precedents set (eg., ResidenSea, basically a mobile condominium complex for the ultra-rich).

I suppose this world would be a much drearier place if not for dreamers, which is why I myself have become involved on a limited basis with a small consortium of people dedicated to building the ultimate express liner.


Posts: 385 | Registered: A Long Time Ago!
Renegade4
First Class Passenger
Member # 392

posted 06-02-1999 06:50 PM      Profile for Renegade4   Author's Homepage   Email Renegade4   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Somehow, this floating "whatever" does not seem to be either an ocean liner or a classic cruise ship. I can well imagine there will, maybe already is, a place for this "ship" in the lifestyles of the rich and famous.

I can assure everyone here that I will never have to worry about boarding unless the president of the company of my employment decides to move on board and invites me to visit his new "summer home" or I win the local lottery.

As interesting as I'm sure it will be, as Joe stated "it is not for cruising", at least not in the sense that we have become accustomed.
I look at the deck plans for RCI's Voyager of the Seas and wonder if I really would want to cruise with an ice skating rink, rock climbing wall and all of the other amenities, if that is what they would be called. I'm not opposed to change. I can't be since I'm a computer network programmer/manager and trying to even keep up with change is a full time job in itself.

Maybe I'm just old-fashioned or maybe I'm just trying to get away from run-away technology... give me the Club Internationale aboard the S/S Norway any day.

R4


Posts: 57 | From: Kingston, MA, USA | Registered: Apr 99
Vaccaro
First Class Passenger
Member # 465

posted 06-03-1999 03:58 PM      Profile for Vaccaro   Author's Homepage   Email Vaccaro   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Hello,
Joe at Pwc and Renegade 4, This reply is especially for you.
I've just read your replies. Now i can't tell you how upset i am!
I don't use to not come to terms with what i did, said or wrote but believe me or not, it's a DREADFUL MISUNDERSTANDING !
Here's the "incredible" explanation:
In fact i had began to write my message before the one of Joe and when i sent it, this was AFTER the Joe's reply but i didn't knew it! Really!
It took a very long time for me to write it for two reasons: first: my english is rather poor. second: i tryed for a long time without success to join a picture i had taken myself last year of my favourite ship: the SS NORWAY. With the picture i would join these words: "anyway i prefer this ship, i prefer her, that's all!" Yes Renegade 4, THE GREAT NORWAY you love so much with her fabulous Club International you love so much! As i had explain yet few days ago when few of us "gave" to the others their favourite cruise ship or liner, myself i've answered the NORWAY and i have precisely spoke about the incomparable Club International. Please read again my past replies if you want.
I'm a immense afficionado of liners and my loves regarding ships are mainly adjusted towards the past. My documentation about liners and cruise ships is rather important and i've "built" it rather hardly since twenty three years (i'm 33 years old). Myself i'm "working" (just for my passion even if i hope to see her built one day like in a dream) on the development of a large cruise ship (not a giant, 918.4 feet long) wich would be a recollection or a modern reincarntion of a "good old" liner, the NORMANDIE, for almost three years. I spend almost all my lost time, so several thousand hours at this day, drawing, thinking, searching, reading,...just for this dream.
That's why, few days ago, i asked Barryboat to give me some precisions about the vision he have about the future "Queen Mary Project" would be according him.
So my thought and my analisys is exactly the same than yours about the "American Flagship".
For peoples without historic and maritime culture, so (as i wrote in my message) alone, without comparison with wich exists and have existed, maybe for just a part of the next generations ,a such "ship"
will be extraordinary and fantastic. But as i wrote in the "fatal" reply, i'm not agree with a such philosophy of ship, holidays and life. I'm not agree to imitate a town at sea.
I prefer nature. I prefer the natural things instead of artificial ones like the philosophy of this "ship".
When i wrote "i'm ready to try" its just to have the possibility to compare and to have a reliable opinion. At this date, today, i'm sure, in my deep down i'll prefer the traditional ships and their philosophy but i don't reject totally the eventuality to modify and why not change my point of vue.
In the future, facts, emotions and pleasure i'll feel, will command my opinion about "this thing".
I wouldn't like to be always "frustrated" thinking about the past.
So, when i wrote "only stupid people never change their opinion", it's just a expression to not reject absolutly and for good the idea to see in a different way even if i think today it would be not different.
Believe me Joe, it's absolutly not an insult (it would be out of place in this rich forum) even if i realized too late you and others could be hurt... but i havn't read your replies before.
Once again, i'm very sorry.
I'm so upset and, in a way, so stupid to have make this unintentional mistake that i'm going to withdraw from this forum.
Before, i want you to know that it's a great and rich forum and i learnt a lot.
It was the first time i had the opportunity and the pleasure to share this passion and i'll continue to read all of you for a long time.
For that, thank you very much.


Posts: 1193 | From: France ...where the greatest liners ever are born, ...by far! | Registered: Feb 99
Renegade4
First Class Passenger
Member # 392

posted 06-03-1999 04:31 PM      Profile for Renegade4   Author's Homepage   Email Renegade4   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Viccaro!!

I took no offense whatsoever with your post. If my reply gave any cause to think I did, then I am the one who will apologize. I realize that English is not your native language and, if I could converse 1/10th as well in French as you do in English I would consider myself extremely fortunate.

I understood your post to indicate that you feel, as I do, that change is not a BAD thing and you would be willing to attempt to keep up with the times and at least see what this new marvel of the seas has to offer. I have cruised on the modern ships (Majesty, Enchantment and Legend of the Seas and the Dream(ward) and have thoroughly enjoyed myself. However, it was a different kind of enjoyment than I felt on the S/S Norway. Not any less enjoyable, just different.

PLEASE, do not even consider withdrawing from this forum on my account. I have so much enjoyed reading your insightful posts regarding a variety of topics especially those on our favorites, the classic liners.
I have made some very large faux pas (whatever the plural is) in my days of posting to this and other web sites. Believe me, I was shocked at your last posting because all of the points that you seem to have read into your and my post, I did not see at all. You stated your opinion and I accepted your statement as just that, your valued opinion.

Looking forward to your next post!!

R4


Posts: 57 | From: Kingston, MA, USA | Registered: Apr 99
fluctuant nec mergitur
First Class Passenger
Member # 577

posted 06-03-1999 04:42 PM      Profile for fluctuant nec mergitur   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Vaccaro,
I have re-read your post as well as the original post and the other replies. I think you may be over thinking into things a bit too deeply. I don't see any problems or any real reason for you to take yourself away from this forum. Your input is appreciated and I believe the others will concure with me that you have no reason to be upset or feel there is any problem here with you whatsoever.

Please reconsider your thoughts of leaving this forum as I trust others who have been here much longer than I would also encourage you to stay. This is an exchange of ideas and opinions. An opinion is as diverse as a fingerprint and unique in that way. Facts on the other hand are facts and the way we precieve those facts may also differ from time to time. This concept ship is just that and hasn't even been fleshed out yet. It insites a lot of emotion and opinions as it is such a grand concept at that. That is part of the purpose for me starting this particular thread. I believed there would be no person who would be indifferent when it comes to such an undertaking of this magnitude.

We are an International forum here and there are some disadvantages non-natives have in language and nuance. After reading the posts of others you refere to I don't think they were offended. I think I understand your feeling, and I for one want to strongly encourage you to stay. I believe the others will also concure. We all have come here under the common bond of our love and respect for Cruise Ships. We are all in this virtual ship together here. And you are a virtual crew member we value here.
Your friend,
fluctuant nec mergitur


Posts: 42 | Registered: May 99
Malcolm @ cruisepage
Cruise Director
Member # 301

posted 06-03-1999 06:23 PM      Profile for Malcolm @ cruisepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Hi folks...I just had to join in this debate!

We have already seen a transition from 'Ocean Liner' to 'Cruise Ship' in our recent maritime history. Cruise Ship to a 'City at Sea' seems possible for those with unlimited money. My only reservation is that it is much easier to build a futeristic 'web site' that it is a floating city. There are 'Web' sites about giant Airships of the future and replica 'Titanics'....but only time will tell what is and is not a dream.


Posts: 19210 | From: Essex (Just Outside London) | Registered: A Long Time Ago!
Barryboat
First Class Passenger
Member # 33

posted 06-03-1999 07:06 PM      Profile for Barryboat   Author's Homepage   Email Barryboat   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Yes, Vaccaro, no need to be so dramatic...We all value your input as an oceanliner buff. I like reading your posts. So let's continue to expound on the topics we enjoy.

By the way, I didn't comment on this mega ship yet in this thread. I will only believe that it will be built when I hear in the cruise-trade magazines or on the news that the "keel has been laid". I like big ships and I would be fascinated by such a huge vessel. Something that big would feel more like an Island rather than a ship. We probably wouldn't feel any motion. That's the fun of cruising or crossing is the concept that we are at sea rather than looking out across the ocean from a steel Island. I've often thought too, what makes the concept of a liner or cruise ship is the community onboard. The realization that we're all in this ship together and bound for the same destination, gives us all something in common. "Getting there IS half the Fun". (like the old Cunard advertisement said) There may be a place in the cruise industry for a bohemouth like the one pictured above, but we all know that the days of the GREAT TRANS-ATLANTIC LINER is long gone. Sure Cunard can build a couple of new liners but the reason for "liner" in the first place was as regular transportation across the "big pond". We can in a sense re-live that old feeling of crossing on a liner by crossing aboard the QE-2 or the Norway, but the difference is for fun rather than neccessity, which creates a completely different atmosphere onboard. I think if Cunard really studied hard the philosophy of the trans-Atlantic crossing on let's say the Queen Mary, Mauretania, Normandie or Ile De France, it is possible they could replicate that "environment" and highlight that "feeling" of those days gone by. I would love to see this happen. Oh, I'm rambling sorry.


Posts: 1851 | From: Bloomington, Minnesota (Home to the Mall of America) | Registered: Mar 99
Joe at PwC
First Class Passenger
Member # 225

posted 06-04-1999 09:19 AM      Profile for Joe at PwC   Email Joe at PwC   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Vaccaro, please, consider yourself forgiven.
No offense was taken. Now let's get on with the discussion.

Posts: 385 | Registered: A Long Time Ago!
Joe at PwC
First Class Passenger
Member # 225

posted 06-04-1999 09:48 AM      Profile for Joe at PwC   Email Joe at PwC   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
And please DO stay in the forum. There's big news coming, trust me.
Posts: 385 | Registered: A Long Time Ago!

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