Cruise Talk: Sinkings En Route to Breakers

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»	Cruise Talk » Ocean Liners and Classic Cruise Ships » Sinkings En Route to Breakers

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Topic: Sinkings En Route to Breakers

Namlit
First Class Passenger
Member # 1940

posted 03-30-2002 02:47 PM

What is it about ships sinking while "on their way to the breakers"? This seems to happen to an awful lot of passenger ships. I would think that insurance companies, ship-owners, or at least the breakers themselves would have an interest in making sure that the ships are in condition to make their final voyages. It seems like a lot of these sinkings occur in fair seas as well. The stunning pictures of the former Britanis sinking in fairly calm seas under sunny blue skies come to mind.
What gives?

For more pics of the former Britanis' sinking, see:
Table Bay Underway Shipping

Posts: 309 | From: Greene County, Indiana, USA | Registered: Apr 2001 | IP: Logged

cruiseny
First Class Passenger
Member # 2928

posted 03-30-2002 03:10 PM

Hello,

My personal inclination is that this occurs often due to the desire for insurance payments. This is simply my instinct. I can find no other reasonable explanation for these seemingly unexpected sinkings that "coincidentally" happen to previously seaworthy, probably well-insured vessels, in good weather, on their last voyages to the scrappers, with seemingly no injury, loss of life, or danger thereof, and with no attention given to investigation. Human nature dictates that I be rather suspicous of these circumstances. I am not the only person I have spoken to who says this, and I must say this is the only logical explanation.

Happy Cruising,
CruiseNY

Posts: 4730 | From: New York, USA | Registered: Mar 2002 | IP: Logged

cruisemole
First Class Passenger
Member # 2459

posted 03-30-2002 04:48 PM

It does seem suspicious - but you would think that insurance brokers would design policies accordingly.

Posts: 343 | From: dear ol'blighty | Registered: Sep 2001 | IP: Logged

titanicsteve
First Class Passenger
Member # 2142

posted 03-31-2002 06:00 AM

Now how do these ships sink? I would love to know! If they are fit to sail on their last few voyages how can all of a sudden they sink!!

God bless insurance eh!

Posts: 510 | From: Ireland (near Titanic birthplace!!) | Registered: Jun 2001 | IP: Logged

Malcolm @ cruisepage
Cruise Director
Member # 301

posted 03-31-2002 07:12 AM

Although there has been a number of ships sinking on the way to the breakers in the past few years - the vast majority don't sink!

Insurance companies are not silly, they run very profitable businesses. The scrap value of these ships is normally higher than the insured amount. There is not incentive to deliberately sink these ships -the owners lose money, ratrher than make a profit.

I assume that these sinkings are crew incompetence or lack of sea worthiness?

Posts: 19210 | From: Essex (Just Outside London) | Registered: A Long Time Ago! | IP: Logged

Cambodge
First Class Passenger
Member # 906

posted 03-31-2002 08:01 AM

It also seems to me that there are many ships, while under tow, which break loose and end up on some "deserted island" somewhere in a high state of disrepair.

"America" and "Caronia" come to mind.

Posts: 2149 | From: St. Michaels MD USA , the town that fooled the British! | Registered: Nov 1999 | IP: Logged

cruiseny
First Class Passenger
Member # 2928

posted 03-31-2002 11:22 PM

Hello,

I certainly don't think this is a big insurance problem (for ins. companies that is) or it would be fixed. However, I am sure that ships have been sunk for this purpose - what hasn't been done sometime or another for insurance money? I don't understand, however, why the ships would be insured for less than their value as scrap. This doesn't make sense to me, but its probably just some oversight on my part occurring because of the late hour (over here).

Happy Cruising,
CruiseNY

Posts: 4730 | From: New York, USA | Registered: Mar 2002 | IP: Logged

Britanis
First Class Passenger
Member # 2912

posted 04-01-2002 12:30 AM

Another factor is the fact that many ships arrive at the breakers powerless and under tow. This is often a factor in "en-route" sinkings. For example: the BRITANIS could have been saved if she was able to power her own pumps, and the CARIBIA (ex-CARONIA) could have been saved if she had been able to steer herself clear of the rocks.

[ 04-01-2002: Message edited by: Britanis ]

Posts: 944 | From: Philadelphia, USA- former home of International Merchantile and Marine Co. | Registered: Mar 2002 | IP: Logged

gohaze
First Class Passenger
Member # 586

posted 04-01-2002 08:19 AM

Hi...it would be interesting to know if these latter vessels actually did have any insurance on them. I suspect not as the scrap buyers in Alang, Gadani Beach etc etc are operating pretty close to the edge, plus the cost could be high in comparison to value.
Another factor to take into account is the length of time of the tow. Old ships leak a lot from all sorts of sources, and by the time they've got to South Africa and the big seas encountered off there, you can have a real stability problem...something pretty marginal to start with.
As for the SeaBreeze I still think from the pix etc that their problem was engineroom flooding caused by the breaking of a large bore pipe such as a condenser intake and the inability to shut it off...or the break could have been at the ships side outboard of the valve which is a not uncommon event.
...peter

[ 04-01-2002: Message edited by: gohaze ]

Posts: 1909 | From: Vancouver.BC | Registered: Sep 99 | IP: Logged

Malcolm @ cruisepage
Cruise Director
Member # 301

posted 04-01-2002 01:13 PM

Here is the CruiseTalkers reaction to the sinking of the Britanis, in October 2000:

http://www.travelserver.net/travelpage/ubb-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=3&t=000641

Posts: 19210 | From: Essex (Just Outside London) | Registered: A Long Time Ago! | IP: Logged

Malcolm @ cruisepage
Cruise Director
Member # 301

posted 04-01-2002 01:18 PM

...sorry about the long URL!

Posts: 19210 | From: Essex (Just Outside London) | Registered: A Long Time Ago! | IP: Logged

recab
First Class Passenger
Member # 1677

posted 04-01-2002 02:42 PM

I think the reason is much more simple. Many of those old ladies rather go down to the bottom of the ocean than to the welding flames in Pakistan!

Posts: 730 | From: Aland, Finland | Registered: Nov 2000 | IP: Logged

nzmike
First Class Passenger
Member # 1308

posted 04-01-2002 07:54 PM

The fact that they sink is not all that surprising. In most cases the ships have been laid up for long periods with no maintenance, meaning that the scope for disaster is high. Along a ships hull there are a number of underwater sea chests which can rust out and allow water in, along with the propeller shaft glads which have high scope for bursting. Frequently these items will deteriorate over the ships later life and layup, and then the sudden stress of being at sea again leads to failure. As the ships have no power, there are consequently no ways of containing the water flow and they sink. The number of sinkings relates mainly to the large number of old ships going to the breakers.

Posts: 186 | From: Auckland, New Zealand | Registered: May 2000 | IP: Logged

DAMBROSI
First Class Passenger
Member # 100

posted 04-05-2002 03:01 PM

What gets me, is when all of
these beauties are sent to the breakers. WHY are all the lovely items such as tables, chairs, fixtures, plates, memorabilia and such
are left on board to go down
with it? WHY is'nt there a
way to get these items from
the cruise lines? WHY don't
they set up an area on their
web sites for those of us who want to buy some of these items at a good price.
So all of these beautiful things don't go down or end
up in the scrapyards and going to those who don't have appreciation for their
worth. I'm not talking about
worth as in money. But worth
as in sentimental value.

Posts: 2554 | From: Florida, USA, Where the Legend SS NORWAY sailed from. Moving back to FL next yr. | Registered: May 99 | IP: Logged

cruiseny
First Class Passenger
Member # 2928

posted 04-05-2002 04:51 PM

Hello,

Honestly, I think that stripping the ships bare before scrapping them would just cost more than could be recouped by selling the items. When many major cruise lines sell their ships they take the art and memorabilia off the ships. For instance, P&O took a large number of items off Canberra before selling her to be scrapped. On the other hand, Celebrity Cruises, heir to the Chandris passenger ships, sold Britanis whole and the buyer, Belofin, certainly wasn't concerned with historical artifacts (presumably some Tiki art from the postwar Matson era).

Happy Cruising,
CruiseNY

Posts: 4730 | From: New York, USA | Registered: Mar 2002 | IP: Logged

Johan C
First Class Passenger
Member # 1201

posted 04-06-2002 03:24 AM

In my hometown they did scrap the"Andes" from Royal Mail lines in the early seventies. Everybody could go on board and buy anything just ask for the price. Unfortunally my parents didn't buy anything and I was only 10 at that time

Posts: 256 | From: Ghent, historic city in Belgium | Registered: Mar 2000 | IP: Logged

cruisemole
First Class Passenger
Member # 2459

posted 04-06-2002 11:57 AM

Anything sellable gets taken off well before the ship leaves for the breakers.

Posts: 343 | From: dear ol'blighty | Registered: Sep 2001 | IP: Logged

Cambodge
First Class Passenger
Member # 906

posted 04-06-2002 03:04 PM

I believe that there is another reason, re these sinkings under tow.

Look at the photo of Britanis at the top of this posting, and note the expanse of weather decks, ports, hatches, and other areas capable of admitting water.

Now, contrast this to a freighter or tanker, which is essentially, all hull except the deckhouses.

If such a vessel is under tow, it offers far fewer points, normally above the waterline, for entry of the sea.

This is not to say that points of entry are not available below the waterline, condensers, shaft exit bearings and similar, but a passenger vessel has many attractive entry points above the waterline so that the hazard is greater...

...or so I should think..

Posts: 2149 | From: St. Michaels MD USA , the town that fooled the British! | Registered: Nov 1999 | IP: Logged

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