Abe books has a few listed for sale, but they are generally not cheap. I lucked out and got my copy for 15 pounds from G. L. Green Ltd., Naval and Maritime Bookseller, Radlett, Hertfordshire, England.

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Originally posted by Sokker14:
Now I only hope that someone makes a book on stillborn cruise ships such as Carnival's Tiffany project.

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Those ships were built... As HAL's STATENDAM-class! The interior design is mostly by VFD (except the Crows Nest and main lounge, at least in the first three, which were done by Farcus), but the ships themselves were designed by Carnival. HAL already had a letter of intent for several ships at Meyer Werft, to their own design, which were cancelled after the Carnival takeover.

[ 05-15-2003: Message edited by: Commodore ]

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Originally posted by Commodore:
What was the Carnival Tiffany project?

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Before Carnival bought HAL, they were intending to introduce their own more upscale brand. The STATENDAM-class ships were originally designed to be the ships of this company, which was internally known as "Project Tiffany". Instead, Carnival had the opportunity to buy HAL; that was a distinct advantage as HAL had an excellent reputation and loyal following cultivated over more than 100 years. The ships HAL had intended to build, at Meyer Werft (about 65,000 GRT, kind of like an overgrown WESTERDAM II) were cancelled; instead they used the design of the Project Tiffany ships as the basis for HAL's new-generation ships, which became the STATENDAM-class. As we all know those ships have been hugely successful and have basically defined the modern HAL experience, something that cannot be said for ZUIDERDAM and her sisters, which will probably go down in history as a failing experiment. HAL has at this point been reduced to almost apologizing that they have to build three more of them !

That really doesn't bode well for the QUEEN VISTA.

could you scan and post some of the more interesting ships from the book? like the Bretange, SS Washington, and the Oceanic

Thank you

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Originally posted by Thad:
It does mention President Washington, and even has a rendering. She would have been a very attractive ship. She along with the United States' sistership, a new America, actually passed through congress in the late fifties. Unfortunately diagreements with U.S. Lines arose over schedule and speed requirements, and the project fell through. It would have been interesting to see these ships, and what would have become of them...

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Originally posted by cruiseny:

Before Carnival bought HAL, they were intending to introduce their own more upscale brand. The STATENDAM-class ships were originally designed to be the ships of this company, which was internally known as "Project Tiffany". Instead, Carnival had the opportunity to buy HAL; that was a distinct advantage as HAL had an excellent reputation and loyal following cultivated over more than 100 years. The ships HAL had intended to build, at Meyer Werft (about 65,000 GRT, kind of like an overgrown WESTERDAM II) were cancelled; instead they used the design of the Project Tiffany ships as the basis for HAL's new-generation ships, which became the STATENDAM-class. As we all know those ships have been hugely successful and have basically defined the modern HAL experience, something that cannot be said for ZUIDERDAM and her sisters, which will probably go down in history as a failing experiment. HAL has at this point been reduced to almost apologizing that they have to build three more of them !

Anyway, that is (briefly) the story of Project Tiffany. I don't know much about it myself, so if anyone else wants to elaborate ...

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Originally posted by Thad:
I did not scan this, but found it somewhere on the web a while ago. This is from Damned by Destiny and is a drawing of the planned Oceanic of 1935 of the White Star Line. SHe had her keel layed, but did not get to far before beening abandoned and broken up on the stocks

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Originally Posted by Maasdam:No the keel was redysigned in a smaller 2 funnel 27.666 grt motorliner ms. Brittanic off 1930. The Brittanic had also a sister the Georgic off 1932 the Georgic was slightly streamlined. The were the last liners off the old White Star Line and even under Cunard colors the wher painted in the old White Star Colors.

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Actually, construction of Britannic was already well underway before the cancellation of Oceanic. Britannic's near-sister Georgic was ordered as a replacement for Oceanic. Not sure if she incorporated the partially completed keel, she may have, but I always heard that it was simply broken up.

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Originally posted by Maasdam:
No the order off the 2 never build sisters went to Bremer Vulkan Yard insted off Meyer Werft.

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I've also seen references to newbuilds (beyond the N ships) at Chantiers de l'Atlantique?

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Whene the order was placed by Bremer Vulkan the wher the most expensive cruise ships to date. Sadly the order was canseld because the yard was't able to get the project financed, and the HAL was take over by Carnival.

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I think it was a good move by Carnival to use Fincantieri instead... They had a run-in with Bremer Vulkan in the mid 1990s when they went bankrupt in the midst of building COSTA OLYMPIA and wanted to re-negotiate the contract at a higher price.

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Originally posted by Britanis:
It is strange how both ships kept their White Star Line funnel colors right up until the end, even after Cunard dropped the "White Star" bit from their name. Georgic was owned by the UK Ministry of Transport after World War II, but was chartered to Cunard during the peak summer season until 1956.

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Britannic and Georgic always looked to me like evolved Olympic class ships, many elements are the same but evolved much in the same way as QM2 has evolved elements of QE2. Not only did they keep the White Star livery to the end they also kept sailing with the White Star flag, even when the other Cunard/white Star ships didn’t anymore. Perhaps the Britannic and Georgic had loyal groups of passengers that sailed these ships only because of the White Star Line connection.

The order for the never-built 65,000 GRT HAL-ships was definitely placed with Bremer Vulkan. No "Perhaps" there! I remember reading so at the time in a Dutch shipping yearbook....

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Originally posted by rd77:
Oh, and I don't know who asked, but the PRESIDENT WASHINGTON is definitely in the book (and looking good too! Sort of a slightly downsized SSUS).

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That was me....

[ 06-12-2003: Message edited by: Rex ]

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Originally posted by rd77:
The order for the never-built 65,000 GRT HAL-ships was definitely placed with Bremer Vulkan. No "Perhaps" there! I remember reading so at the time in a Dutch shipping yearbook...

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I have seen a tiny rendering of one of these ships and in all honesty it was NOT a very attractive vessel... Sort of like a post-stretch WESTERDAM, but on steroids, and with a 'tween deck of the sort pioneered on SONG OF AMERICA and seen on the SOVEREIGN-class ships and COSTA VICTORIA and derivatives (hmm, that last one was by Vulkan!).

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Originally posted by Maasdam:

No the keel was redysigned in a smaller 2 funnel 27.666 grt motorliner ms. Brittanic off 1930. The Brittanic had also a sister the Georgic off 1932 the Georgic was slightly streamlined. The were the last liners off the old White Star Line and even under Cunard colors the wher painted in the old White Star Colors.

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Originally posted by rd77:
Cruiseny,

The order for the never-built 65,000 GRT HAL-ships was definitely placed with Bremer Vulkan. No "Perhaps" there! I remember reading so at the time in a Dutch shipping yearbook....

Oh, and I don't know who asked, but the PRESIDENT WASHINGTON is definitely in the book (and looking good too! Sort of a slightly downsized SSUS).

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